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Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration

 
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Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/21/2020 8:24:30 AM   
jimwinsor


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This is an attempt to catalog all the skills generally used by each cabinet post in Shadow Empire, to help make intelligent decisions as which leader would be the best fit for each job based on that leader's skill sets. While Vic's Suitability rating for each leader generally does an outstanding job here, this guide is for those who want to choose the right man or woman for the job with a bit more hands-on precision.

What I'm mainly looking at here is the "Job" skills each position relies on each turn provided BPs are allocated to the task (for example, skills used to help generate the Stratagems each office creates), plus the skills used as modifiers to the Stratagems each leader is called to roll on.

Notably missing are the skills used in the various random event decisions that pop up from time to time that Governors usually have to deal with. Those are embedded in the code of the game, and to make a catalog of each of them as they came up in the course of a game would be quite an undertaking (anyone up for a challenge???). It was tough enough to do this for the Stratagem cards alone, as the same procedure had to be used ... I had to generate each card in the course of play, and make a note of the tooltip which described which skill of which official was used!

Not included here are OHQ Commanders, as I'm sure everyone already figured out they should put leaders with high Operational Command in such positions, along with other appropriate tactical skills.


Secretary

Almost never uses any skills. The best choice here is someone in tune with your current ideologies so as to have high loyalty, and not do stupid things that cause those bad 4-choice decisions.

One awesome ability the Secretary does have, however, is that the position gets automatically refilled for free if it ever become vacant. So even if you have no recruit Stratagems, you can always fire and appoint your Secretary, provided you can afford the PP cost to make the switch. Firing the Secretary does cost a lot extra in PPs due to this fact, but it is nice to know that option is always a possibility.

Lastly, the Secretary also acts as the minister of last resort, when neither the appropriate cabinet official nor the Supreme Command Council is available. The roll is done at a -25 penalty.


Supreme Command Council

Early game, this person is important for generating basic cards and postures normally generated by the cabinet officials you have yet to create (Interior, Foreign Affairs, Secret Service and Staff Council). As you can see below, Covert Ops, Diplomacy, Administration and High Command are all useful skills to have. He or she will also use the first 3 of those 4 skills mention above to execute those cards, in the absence of the correct cabinet official.

The SCC also makes the Skill Rolls for any other leaders who are not present for some reason, making him or her the first backup in such situations.

Mid-game, after your cabinet is complete, you'll probably want to put all priority into the office's main job, which is the generation of Political Points. For that, you'll want your SCC to be well versed in that most important skill, Administration.

Job Skills
-----------
Generate Political Power: ADMINISTRATION
Generate Spy Cards: COVERT OPS
Generate Diplomacy Cards: DIPLOMACY
Generate HR Cards: ADMINISTRATION
Generate Posture Cards: HIGH COMMAND

Stratagem Skills
----------------
Bonus (Interior Council): LEADERSHIP
Gift 400 Credits (Foreign Affairs Council): ORATORY
Non-aggression pact (Foreign Affairs Council): DIPLOMACY
Open Contact (Foreign Affairs Council): DIPLOMACY
Offer Protection (Foreign Affairs Council): DIPLOMACY
Trade (Foreign Affairs Council): DIPLOMACY
Scientific Cooperation (Foreign Affairs Council): DIPLOMACY
Propose Peace (Foreign Affairs Council): ORATORY
Send Spy (Secret Service Council): COVERT OPS


SHQ Commander

This guy or gal seems to have only one steady job, and that is to use High Command skill to generate extra Readiness for all your troops. I believe their other operational military skills also come into play for militia forces in battles within his command range, and of course the High Command rating will be a thing in battles everywhere.

The SHQ Commander will also grant a bonus during manual trading with the Trading Houses, using his or her Trade skill. So if you do a lot of hands on trading, this is a consideration as well.

So generally, you want someone in this job with a very high High Command skill, and very possibly Trade as well.

Job Skills
----------
Readiness Bonus: HIGH COMMAND
Trade Negotiation: TRADE


Secret Service Council

Your spymaster will rely on Covert Ops for his or her various day to day activities, and to a large degree with the Stratagems played as well. Although the latter occasionally calls on other skills such as Personal Combat, Bribery, Interrogation and Intimidation.

I have a question mark after Call to Success and Call to Rebellion because I have not generated those cards recently, and they are gated rather high on the PROF chart. However, I am about 95% sure they use Covert Ops (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!).

So bottom line: You want someone here with high Covert Ops, and situationally Personal Combat, Bribery, Interrogation and Intimidation if you plan on using certain Stratagems as well.

Job Skills
-----------
Active Field Operations: COVERT OPS
Spying Operations: COVERT OPS
Internal Security: COVERT OPS

Stratagem Skills
----------------
Assassinate Leader: PERSONAL COMBAT
Call to Power I: COVERT OPS
Call to Power II: COVERT OPS
Call to Power III: COVERT OPS
Call to Rebellion I: COVERT OPS?
Call to Rebellion II: COVERT OPS?
Call to Rebellion III: COVERT OPS?
Call to Success I: COVERT OPS?
Call to Success II: COVERT OPS?
Call to Success III: COVERT OPS?
Gift to Faction: BRIBERY
Investigate Leader: INTERROGATION
Send Spy: COVERT OPS
Send Spy Team: COVERT OPS
Send Spy Ring: COVERT OPS
Support Faction: COVERT OPS
Threaten Leader: INTIMIDATE


Foreign Affairs Council

The Foreign Secretary's basic card-generating skill is Diplomacy. For Stratagems, Diplomacy and Oratory are both very important, with Intimidate being only rarely useful.

Job Skills
----------
Major Diplomacy: DIPLOMACY
Minor Diplomacy: DIPLOMACY

Stratagem Skills
-----------------
Annexation: INTIMIDATE
Cultural Exchange: DIPLOMACY
Embassy: DIPLOMACY
Free Movement: DIPLOMACY
Free Trade: DIPLOMACY
Friendship pact: DIPLOMACY
Gift 400 Credits: ORATORY
Gift 1000 Credits: ORATORY
Gift 2500 Credits: ORATORY
Non-aggression pact: DIPLOMACY
Open Contact: DIPLOMACY
Offer Client: DIPLOMACY
Offer Protection: DIPLOMACY
Ouverture: ORATORY
Propose Peace (Minor): ORATORY
Propose Peace (Major): ORATORY
Provocation: INTIMIDATE
Scientific Cooperation: DIPLOMACY
Scientific Exchange: DIPLOMACY
Scientific Joint Effort: DIPLOMACY
Trade: DIPLOMACY
Unification: ORATORY
Victory Pact: DIPLOMACY


Interior Council

The Interior Council's 4 main jobs all rely on Administration skill, as do the vast majority of their Stratagems. Leadership is occasionally used, as is Streetwise when you are trying to be friendly with the Godfather.

Job Skills
----------
Taxation: ADMINISTRATION
Tariffs: ADMINISTRATION
Human Resources: ADMINISTRATION
Interior Policies: ADMINISTRATION

Stratagem Skills
----------------
Bonus: LEADERSHIP
Bureaucratic Push: ADMINISTRATION
Cabinet Retreat: ADMINISTRATION
Co-Existence: STREETWISE
Commercial Gift: LEADERSHIP
Decrease Sales Tax: ADMINISTRATION
Decrease Income Tax: ADMINISTRATION
Demand a Share: STREETWISE
Efficiency Drive: ADMINISTRATION
Estate Gift: LEADERSHIP
Export Tariff Increase: ADMINISTRATION
Export Tariff Decrease: ADMINISTRATION
Governor Convention: ADMINISTRATION
Grand Convention: ADMINISTRATION
Import Tariff Increase: ADMINISTRATION
Import Tariff Decrease: ADMINISTRATION
Increase Sales Tax: ADMINISTRATION
Increase Income Tax: ADMINISTRATION
Meet Godfather: STREETWISE
Mission Impossible: LEADERSHIP
Official Gift: LEADERSHIP
Wargames: ADMINISTRATION


Economic Council

The Economic Council does not play Stratagems. Their 4 main jobs require Inventor, Science, Prospecting and Administration, with the first two most likely being of top importance to you as they allow you to move down the Tech Tree.

Job Skills
-----------
Discovery: INVENTOR
Research: SCIENCE
Prospecting: PROSPECTING
Economic Policies: ADMINISTRATION


Military Research Council

Military Research does not play Stratagems. Thus you want an egghead here well versed in Inventor and Science so as to power down the Tech Tree, and that's about it.

Job Skills
-----------
Discovery: INVENTOR
Research: SCIENCE


Applied Science Council

Everything I said about the Military Research Council above applies to the Applied Science Council. Also note that in games that start at tech level 3, this is an office you will probably want to delay creating, as you will not be able to discover any of the applied sciences until you move further down the tech tree

Job Skills
-----------
Discovery: INVENTOR
Research: SCIENCE


Model Design Council

A most one-dimensional cabinet position, who deals only with the Technician skill in his or her daily duties. Does not play skill check Stratagems.

Job Skills
----------
Discover Model: TECHNICIAN
Design Model: TECHNICIAN


Staff Council

Another easy one to figure out, the Staff Council has four jobs but all of them use only one skill, High Command. Does not play any skill check Stratagems.

Job Skills
-----------
Discover OOB: HIGH COMMAND
Operationalize OOB: HIGH COMMAND
Occupation and Governance: HIGH COMMAND
Postures: HIGH COMMAND


Zone Governors

As you can see, Zone Governors are pretty hard to pigeon hole. They access a wide variety of skills in both their day-to-day Production bonus jobs, and are called upon to be the die roller for many a zone Stratagem as well. But you can tailor your Governor to the Zone to some degree. For example, if there are many ruins in a Zone, you may want to look for a high Scavenging Governor.

There are a couple Governor tasks I'm not too familiar with. One is the Hunting bonus mentioned in the Ecology tooltip. I've never seen that one in action in a Governor's skill log, which makes me think perhaps it only applies to planets with edible lifeforms? If so this would easily make it the most obscure skill in the game. Survival skill seems to work the same way, with a Reduce Hunger ability.

Job Skills
-----------
Agriculture Bonus: AGRICULTURE
Scavenging Bonus: SCAVENGING
Mining Bonus: PROSPECTING
Help Trader Financing: TRADE
Prospecting Find Chance: PROSPECTING
Health Increase: MEDICAL
Entertainment Increase: ORATORY
Education Increase: SCIENCE
Security Increase: INVESTIGATION
Hunting Bonus?: ECOLOGY
Reduce Hunger?: SURVIVAL

Stratagem Skills
-----------------
Antitrust Ops: RESIST INFLUENCE
Archaeology: SCIENCE
Attract Free Folk: ORATORY
Crackdown on Crime: STREETWISE
Crime Raid: STREETWISE
Draft Colonists: ADMINISTRATION
Draft Recruits: ADMINISTRATION
Draft Workers: ADMINISTRATION
Emergency Tax: ADMINISTRATION
Expel Population: OPERATIONAL COMMAND
Forced Relocation: INTIMIDATE
Give 500 to Militia: BRIBERY
Give 500 to Populace: BRIBERY
Give 2000 to Populace: BRIBERY
Militia Enthusiasm: LEADERSHIP
Patriotic Collection: ORATORY
Private Investment: ORATORY
Prospecting Push I: PROSPECTING
Prospecting Push II: PROSPECTING
Pillage: INTIMIDATE
Suppress Unrest: OPERATIONAL COMMAND
Volunteer Drive: LEADERSHIP


Advisors

Last but not least we have your Advisors. Use them to fill the gaps in key skills you want but lack in your main cabinet leaders. For example, lets say you are Autocratic and want to avail yourself of Assassinate Leader. However, your Secret Service Council leader, while a whiz at Covert Ops, sadly does not know the first thing about Personal Combat. In that case just be sure to appoint an Advisor that knows Personal Combat, give him a Personal Guard for good measure, and voila! An instant assassin, who can be attached and detached to and from Secret Service as the need arises.


Jack-of-All-Trade Skills

There are a couple skills in the game that act as jack-of-all-trade skills, giving a bonus to all Skill Rolls. So feel free to take these into account for all hiring and placement decisions as well:

Improvisation: "This helps the Leader in question to make a Skill Roll on a Skill he doesn’t master very well. If any Skill Roll is made on a Skill with a value of 15 or lower the Improvisation Skill adds a small bonus."

6th Sense: "Hard to define, but a very valuable Skill. It gives the Leader a sense what is the right course of action in almost any situation. It adds a random bonus of 1 up to half its value to any Skill Roll."


Job Prestige

OK, so now you know how to allocate the leaders with the best skills for the right job. And you now realize your administration could benefit from a good old-fashioned cabinet shuffle! This will involve firing leaders, which causes discontent, especially on the part of the leader who is fired. However, you are offered an opportunity to mitigate the unhappiness by promising a future job to the newly unemployed leader, either of the same level, better level, or worse level. The better your promise, the more PP the firing will cost.

So how are jobs ranked, you wonder? In a nutshell, there are 3 tiers of jobs, with the Governors and OHQ Commanders being the lowest (aside from the non-job of the Reserve pool), Advisors and the Secretary being the middle, and the SHQ Commander and Directors being the top tier in terms of job prestige. Here's the chart from the manual:

5.8.2.1. Job Prestige

Job Prestige
Reserve Pool: 0
Governor: 40
OHQ Commander: 40
Advisor: 70
Secretary: 70
SHQ Commander: 100
Director: 100

< Message edited by jimwinsor -- 8/15/2020 3:29:35 PM >


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Post #: 1
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/21/2020 10:11:11 AM   
Tchey


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Very useful, thanks !

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/21/2020 10:42:24 AM   
zgrssd

 

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Nice list. Some notes:
The Supreme Command Council acts as a "Fallback Leader", if you got no leader in the specific council. This is also the reason the SCC can produce certain Stratagems - Vic is making sure you always at least got the basic tools for the job!
Every specialized Council you get, is one less thing the SSC has to be good at. Until Generating PP is the only thing left for it to do.

The Secretary is the fall-Fallback leader. It also suffers a additional -25 on the roll (with the 1.03 betas actually showing it now). The game will force fill this position and apparently Vic never even considered it could be empty until we ran into cases for it.

OHQ and Governor Position may also be able to use Survival to deal with some food shortages. It is based on Strenght.
Survival:
"If the Planet has edible wildlife than this Skill allows a Governor to reduce Hunger for up to 10K Populace and allows an Operational Commander to reduce Hunger for up to 1K Troops"
I hope that means "10k/1k per Skill Level".
Oddly I get it mostly on planets without edible plant life. No idea if they can train it. And based on the wording, I think it is only used after Emergency Food and buying Food for Private Credits.

Improvisaiton and 6th Sense. Two skills easily missed - especially for Advisors or people with low initial skill - are "Improvisation" and "6th Sense":
Both are based on willpower and Groupless. Also to my knowledge, you can only get them from the Backstories - I have never seen them get useage points wich means they likely can not be raised.
Improvisation:
"This helps the Leader in question to make a Skill Roll on a Skill he doesn’t master very well. If any Skill Roll is made on a Skill with a value of 15 or lower the Improvisation Skill adds a small bonus."
6th Sense:
"Hard to define, but a very valuable Skill. It gives the Leader a sense what is the right course of action in almost any situation. It adds a random bonus of 1 up to half its value to any Skill Roll."

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/21/2020 10:45:05 AM >

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/22/2020 5:12:18 PM   
jimwinsor


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Just edited to add zgrssd's excellent points, and to include the Applied Science Council which I had inexplicably forgot!

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/22/2020 6:27:30 PM   
TruJared

 

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This is so incredibly useful. Thanks!

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 3:28:25 AM   
jimwinsor


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Another addition: a section on Job Prestige at the end, which is very useful info to have at your fingertips during cabinet reshuffles.

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 4:05:54 AM   
Justus2


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Thanks, this is a great guide! Definitely caught my attention as my full-time job is HR, ddin't think I would be applying it to wargames!

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 11:19:28 AM   
zgrssd

 

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I think I figured out the Effective Job Prestige Formula:
100 + [JobPrestige/2]-[Ambition], max 100.

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 1:08:14 PM   
Tchey


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Hi,

I’m not sure i understand this part well enough.

quote:

Job Prestige


Does it means, if i fire a high tier member the lower ones will be sad, but if i fire i low tier the higher ones will be happier (or at least less sad) ?
If so, if i want to fire several members, then should i start to fire low tier first, and go higher next ?

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 1:52:58 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tchey

Hi,

I’m not sure i understand this part well enough.

quote:

Job Prestige


Does it means, if i fire a high tier member the lower ones will be sad, but if i fire i low tier the higher ones will be happier (or at least less sad) ?
If so, if i want to fire several members, then should i start to fire low tier first, and go higher next ?

It is about two things:
- keeping high Ambition people happy. Low ones can be happy in the Reserve pool.
- if you promise them a "more prestigious" job when releiving them

The firing penalty is based on Seniority. No ideas if the two are even interacting, but it is possible a high prestige Job builds Seniority score quicker.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/26/2020 1:54:26 PM >

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 5:55:56 PM   
Atros

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
- keeping high Ambition people happy. Low ones can be happy in the Reserve pool.



As far as I am concerned, everybody except faction leaders are perfectly happy in the reserve pool, as they (near) never rebel there and thus are not a concern of mine. Unhappy faction leaders on the other hand can become quite annoying very fast.

Personally when somebody becomes too annoying, he/she will find herself in the reserve pool very fast and never be considered for anything but retirement. Faction leaders I try to keep happy in their advisor posts, as there they can't do those annoying "firing" events, which either piss them badly and their faction at the same time, or screw my regime profile and increase unrest, usually at my capital, which is usually hotbed already for all the fate strats.

It is not uncommon for me to have advisor position twice as highly paid as the director position, just to keep all those complaining faction leaders in check, as uncontent faction leader=bad and faction leader as director=catasthrope soon or sooner.


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

The firing penalty is based on Seniority. No ideas if the two are even interacting, but it is possible a high prestige Job builds Seniority score quicker.


According to my experience, no. The firing penalty is based only for his seniority rank and if he is a faction leader, as factions doesn't like to see their leaders fired.

Also the seniority seems to be based on random number when the person is created, which seems to be higher in the beginning if faction leader demands you to hire the person and after that seems to be based purely on time and their cursus honorum. I have seen relatively low ranking leaders shoot up quite fast in seniority when put up as director of supreme command or SHQ and raise too little to notice if at all when held long in reserve pool.


By the way, does anybody have idea how the leaders quality rank affects his experience accumulation and what is the experience cost for increasing skill scores? The manual claims there is relation with the rank, but currently I am not sure, as I have many level I leaders that have better attribute+skill scores to do certain jobs than any of my level IV leaders.

So I am wondering if I would put crappy level IV into director position, how long would it take to break him even with the better lower quality one...

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 6:33:27 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Atros

By the way, does anybody have idea how the leaders quality rank affects his experience accumulation and what is the experience cost for increasing skill scores? The manual claims there is relation with the rank, but currently I am not sure, as I have many level I leaders that have better attribute+skill scores to do certain jobs than any of my level IV leaders.

So I am wondering if I would put crappy level IV into director position, how long would it take to break him even with the better lower quality one...

The things I figured out:
- using a skill gives "Useage Points". Possibly failure brings more
- with a certain amount of and a certain amount of useage points, they have a chance to roll to increase the skill.
- not sure if useage points are consumed by a failed attempt at increasing the skill, but XP seems to be

No idea about any exact figures.

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 9:42:29 PM   
Atros

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
The things I figured out:
- using a skill gives "Useage Points". Possibly failure brings more
- with a certain amount of and a certain amount of useage points, they have a chance to roll to increase the skill.
- not sure if useage points are consumed by a failed attempt at increasing the skill, but XP seems to be

No idea about any exact figures.



Atleast high usage doesn't seem to be giving much XP. My Strategic Commander just made 3629 trade actions in the first turn with trade rating 0 and by the second turn he had accumulated only 6 more XP and hadn't increased his trade from zero at all.



[at] jimwinsor

You might wanna mention that efficient leadership means avoiding the leaders that are "haters" or have high ambition or egoism. Having even single "-" score in the profile means that from time to time it will make your relationship score take a hit and high ambition or egoism means downward spiral in the long run and hardship to increase your relation.

Why this is important is the fact that every director gives bonus on executing main tasks on their fields with high relationship score and worse relations mean worse bonus. Haven't seen a penalty from too low relationship yet, but haven't ruled that out yet either, as having no director in office means static -50% relationship penalty on the effect of BP invested on the field.

It is actually quite common for my directors to give higher research and other field bonuses from high relation score than from actual administration (etc.) skill bonus, especially early in the game and that is why egoists, ambitious and haters find themselves on permanent vacation on the reserve pool with no pay very fast when better candidates come forward.

In a sense that is slightly unrealistic, as ambitious leaders tend often be very effective, as they tend to get rid fast of the underlings that don't get the job done to not look bad themselves and usually want to get the job done efficiently and fast.


PS. The BBS system claims you wrote email address when using (a)/[at] symbol to mark recipient, which is prohibited for some reason... (facepalm)

< Message edited by Atros -- 6/26/2020 10:05:40 PM >

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 10:10:52 PM   
Justus2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Atros

Atleast high usage doesn't seem to be giving much XP. My Strategic Commander just made 3629 trade actions in the first turn with trade rating 0 and by the second turn he had accumulated only 6 more XP and hadn't increased his trade from zero at all.


Based on that I would assume there is a limit to the # of XP per turn (maybe only gains XP the first time a skill is used in a turn)?

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 10:59:09 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Atros

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
The things I figured out:
- using a skill gives "Useage Points". Possibly failure brings more
- with a certain amount of and a certain amount of useage points, they have a chance to roll to increase the skill.
- not sure if useage points are consumed by a failed attempt at increasing the skill, but XP seems to be

No idea about any exact figures.



Atleast high usage doesn't seem to be giving much XP. My Strategic Commander just made 3629 trade actions in the first turn with trade rating 0 and by the second turn he had accumulated only 6 more XP and hadn't increased his trade from zero at all.


You are conflating:
- useage points
- XP
- Skill increase
The 3 are related, but not one and the same.

You do not get a lot of "passive XP" from doing your job.
You get Usage point in a skill from ... well using it
But you need those XP to turn "Usage Points" into "Higher Skilllevel".

Indeed that little Star at a skill means "unspent Usage Points".

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/26/2020 11:02:27 PM >

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/26/2020 11:25:55 PM   
Sieppo


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Thanks for this highly useful post!

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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/27/2020 12:02:34 AM   
Atros

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
You are conflating:
- useage points
- XP
- Skill increase
The 3 are related, but not one and the same.

You do not get a lot of "passive XP" from doing your job.
You get Usage point in a skill from ... well using it
But you need those XP to turn "Usage Points" into "Higher Skilllevel".

Indeed that little Star at a skill means "unspent Usage Points".


Yes, I understood before they aren't the same, that was just note on how xp won't increase.

Another side note I noticed that next turn those 3.6k "recent skill uses" had dropped to 2.8k recent skill uses, which is another connection I don't quite understand why.

In real life, actually simply doing your job increases your job experience very sharply, atleast in the beginning and with diminishing results as the time goes by and you do the same thing. Thus it wouldn't be completely wrong to assume certain amount of XP accumulation from doing your job. I am still trying to figure out best ways to "train" your leaders.

Is the XP shown by the way the leaders total XP, or "unspent" XP and what are the confirmed ways to increase it, besides the obvious "killing stuff with military"?

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 17
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/27/2020 12:56:02 AM   
zgrssd

 

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I stumbeled over Data on Capability Class in 5.8.1.3:
"Classes vary from level I to level V. The higher the better. Level II and III are usually most common. Level IV should be rare, and it is not sure you’ll even see a level V in your ranks.The Capability Class provides you at a glance with a measure how useful this Leader will be. And most importantly its Class is also a modifier for XP Points gained through Skill Rolls. Level I gets no bonus on XP growth, but Level II gets +30%, Level III +70%, Level IV +120% and Level V +180%."
I can not tell if he means that they get more useage points, or actually start gaining XP from making skill rolls.

And Experience Points/Skill Learning in 5.8.5
Non-Military leaders will get a passive 5, plus supposedly 5 per skillcheck for a story or Stratagem.
Military Leaders meanwhile get a ton of XP from Combat.

(in reply to Atros)
Post #: 18
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/29/2020 6:35:10 AM   
Raagun

 

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Interesting part at 5.8.3.1 about leader skill rolls:
* The Skill Level of a Leader is 20 or more:
Stat Points + Skill Level + 1d100
* The Skill Level of a Leader is below 20:
(Stat Points * Skill Level / 20) + Skill Level + 1d100

So leader with low skill level is a bit ****. Tho it gets better with each skill level.

Increasing skill level costs at 5.8.5.1:
The average cost with a Stat of 25 of obtaining 1 new Skill Level is 5 XP for
Level 1-9, 10 XP for Level 11-19, 15 XP For Level 20-29, etc

So for non combat leaders there is way to boost skills fast by using strategems with them. At 1-9 levels each use has a chance to increase level by +1.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 19
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 6/30/2020 2:38:57 PM   
Atros

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun

Interesting part at 5.8.3.1 about leader skill rolls:
* The Skill Level of a Leader is 20 or more:
Stat Points + Skill Level + 1d100
* The Skill Level of a Leader is below 20:
(Stat Points * Skill Level / 20) + Skill Level + 1d100

So leader with low skill level is a bit ****. Tho it gets better with each skill level.

Increasing skill level costs at 5.8.5.1:
The average cost with a Stat of 25 of obtaining 1 new Skill Level is 5 XP for
Level 1-9, 10 XP for Level 11-19, 15 XP For Level 20-29, etc

So for non combat leaders there is way to boost skills fast by using strategems with them. At 1-9 levels each use has a chance to increase level by +1.



Any idea how the stat affects the cost for the skill level?
By your example, it starts to look that anyone having 40+ skill in their main field or combined in their main fields (like inventor&research) is better fit for the job than even perfect candidate with zero-skill levels, as they will be able to advance their skill level(s) higher than the zero candidate could accumulate.

By the way, are any of the other traits besides skills (attributes, profile, personality) changing during the game?
Thus far the only stat I have seen rise besides skills has been their corruption and that either tends to rise quickly or not at all, depending how great ambitious egoistical dick the leader happens to be...

If there are three traits in the leaders I have learned to hate with passion, they are high egoism, high ambition and any negative profile traits, as they can especially combined spiral the leader out of control really fast. All the other traits are manageable or have little effect.

(in reply to Raagun)
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RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 7/1/2020 5:49:09 AM   
josefrees

 

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Are advisors safe from being killed when attached to OHQ? Just wonder if it makes sense to make amazing OHQ commanders into advisors and then attaching them to weaker OHQ leaders.

(in reply to Atros)
Post #: 21
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 7/1/2020 11:28:32 AM   
Raagun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Atros

Any idea how the stat affects the cost for the skill level?
By your example, it starts to look that anyone having 40+ skill in their main field or combined in their main fields (like inventor&research) is better fit for the job than even perfect candidate with zero-skill levels, as they will be able to advance their skill level(s) higher than the zero candidate could accumulate.


Have in mind I only reading manual on these calculations. Hope it is still accurate.
While your observation is correct, high skilled leader is better(from certain levels). Catch here is that leaders with higher stats are usually with higher Capacity so they will outgrow low stats/high level leaders in the long run. And if you manage to recruit high level Leader it is doubtful he will have ****ty stats. He will probably have at least moderate stats.
So experienced leaders will always be best overall choice if skills match you needs. But young with high Cap and good stats is someone who will be good in the future and you can "choose" his skills.

cant comment on other traits. never observed that close. Leaders definitely can acquire feats which change attributes in the end.

< Message edited by Raagun -- 7/1/2020 11:29:41 AM >

(in reply to Atros)
Post #: 22
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 7/1/2020 12:13:23 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: josefrees

Are advisors safe from being killed when attached to OHQ? Just wonder if it makes sense to make amazing OHQ commanders into advisors and then attaching them to weaker OHQ leaders.

I think I read that advisors die with the HQ commander they are attached to.
They are asumed to suceed or fail all rolls together.

Edit:
5.8.6.1
"Advisors are always killed as well if the Leader they are embedded with is killed. (they are presumed to have failed the skill roll together)"

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/1/2020 12:17:33 PM >

(in reply to josefrees)
Post #: 23
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 7/1/2020 3:23:44 PM   
Atros

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun
While your observation is correct, high skilled leader is better(from certain levels). Catch here is that leaders with higher stats are usually with higher Capacity so they will outgrow low stats/high level leaders in the long run. And if you manage to recruit high level Leader it is doubtful he will have ****ty stats. He will probably have at least moderate stats.


Actually here you are bit misinformed. I have actually made enough rerolls for junior leaders to observe absolutely horrible cap IV leaders with no ratings in practically anything (only low ratings in some white skills), while the exactly same card can provide cap II-III leader combined bonus to one skill of 98 (maybe even better is possible, but haven't seen thus yet).

There are actually multiple patterns for each card (strategem), for example there certainly is one ethnic junior-card that provides only black male leaders and mixed-colored females (some of them actually could be levantene by features, but that is as non-black as it gets). Also the after a certain amount of rerolls, the stats start to repeat themselves with minor variations, that are mostly in the profile (like/dislike) section and in the personality traits and this cycle can be only broken by quitting and reloading the game. I don't know how changing turn would affect the results though.

The attributes seem to be completely random, only somewhat tied to the capacity level (better cap, more attributes), but the initial skills seem to be quite much without attachment to the cap.

So far I know that the three initial cards in one of my scenario starts are:

Mercenary leader: Caucasian or Arab leader, mostly male, always cap II.

First Junior leader: Ethnic card, cap I-IV, extremely common to have high ambition and/or high egoism and tendency for cowardness and high emo. Rolls actually quite often natural 100's in ambition.

Second Junior leader: Caucasian card, cap I-III, overall more tendency to roll average results in everything, skills have same variations range (or close enough for me not to notice difference) for the first junior card, but attributes are generally lower because of the lower cap.

Also only the Caucasian females seem to roll blue hair (why would anybody punish herself like this?).

There also seems to be certain templates in the skills that tend to come up from time to time, like leader having skill in technician and inventor or leader having skill in investigation, intimidate and interrogation or just random two of those. Also leadership seems to be paired quite often either with diplomacy or trade and covert ops with interrogation or intimidate.

If you wonder how I have been able to come up with this, like I said I run some scripts and one of the is for rerolling leader cards, which if executed in the main menu, basic screen with no units chosen or when you look at a leader, it will load a certain save and execute the leader strategem and open the new leader's stats. Thus I can quite quickly reroll the leader cards many times keeping just press the execute-button (home) in my keyboard.

Cheating? Perhaps, but I have seen my share of poor leaders who have caused downward spiral in the start to allow me few half-decent leaders in the beginning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raagun
cant comment on other traits. never observed that close. Leaders definitely can acquire feats which change attributes in the end.

Yeah, I have observed the feats too, just forgot them as I don't consider feat increases as organic changes in stats.

(in reply to Raagun)
Post #: 24
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 7/2/2020 2:06:28 PM   
Raagun

 

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I see you roll leaders hardcore. I consider this as part of game as challenge. So I try not to cheat.

< Message edited by Raagun -- 7/3/2020 6:09:21 AM >

(in reply to Atros)
Post #: 25
RE: Grog's Guide to Human Resources Administration - 7/17/2020 11:40:20 PM   
JDBSM

 

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Great post. Very generous.

(in reply to Raagun)
Post #: 26
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