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Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in combat ... - 6/19/2020 8:13:24 PM   
jimwinsor


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Oh well.




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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/19/2020 8:45:01 PM   
Tssha

 

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Ahahahahaha!

Clearly fate decided death was the only appropriate sanction.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 2:07:00 AM   
CzarKasm

 

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I've had leaders I wished that would happen to. Is there a way to "arrange" that?

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 2:25:35 AM   
Cornuthaum

 

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Make them the commander of some OHQ, transfer most of the troops out of the OHQ down to the last 100 men, and then run them face first into the biggest apex predators on your planet; repeat until they die.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 2:36:04 AM   
Malevolence


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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 8:01:53 AM   
jimwinsor


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Yeah that’s the way to do it!

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 9:36:08 AM   
Cornuthaum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence




The main problem with that is that it requires playing Autocracy, which is far and away the worst of the three profiles on that axis. Slightly improved leader management isn't worth the penalties (as autocracy choices are almost uniformly awful in the worst way - they kill your population, the most precious resource on the planet.)

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:16:11 PM   
Malevolence


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Cards are eternal. You dip into the pool to pickup the things you want and then go back.




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< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/20/2020 4:17:38 PM >


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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:35:53 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence




The main problem with that is that it requires playing Autocracy, which is far and away the worst of the three profiles on that axis. Slightly improved leader management isn't worth the penalties (as autocracy choices are almost uniformly awful in the worst way - they kill your population, the most precious resource on the planet.)

It is only bad if you do not pick up the Secret Service Council. With that one, it is actually pretty good!

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:39:19 PM   
Cornuthaum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Cards are eternal. You dip into the pool to pickup the things you want and then go back.


Pull the other one, it's got a version of shadow empire where meritocracy options exist more than once every 15 turns. Autocracy/Democracy are ludicrously easy to raise, but it's taken me 134 turns to get autocracy to 80 (and I still haven't managed with Government)


besides, if you do mass hire/fire hunting for the correct combination of "good at their task" and "shares government ethics", there's no way you can stock up enough Assassinate Leader cards

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:40:28 PM   
Malevolence


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I'd advise you to ensure personal combat score is high for your Secret Service Council Director. There is a fate stratagem to assign them a personal guard detail. It increases their personal combat as well.

Also check the target's personal combat skill. It's an opposed roll test.

The image was her first kill and it was lucky. She missed two others beforehand. Now she has become a black widow--with much experience.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/20/2020 4:43:16 PM >


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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:42:28 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Cards are eternal. You dip into the pool to pickup the things you want and then go back.


Pull the other one, it's got a version of shadow empire where meritocracy options exist more than once every 15 turns. Autocracy/Democracy are ludicrously easy to raise, but it's taken me 134 turns to get autocracy to 80 (and I still haven't managed with Government)


besides, if you do mass hire/fire hunting for the correct combination of "good at their task" and "shares government ethics", there's no way you can stock up enough Assassinate Leader cards


Autocracy just needs you causing some unrest, that you then beat down with Forces. Happens easily once you go conquering.
Meritocracy? Yes, that one is hard. Unless you get really lucky with that Interior Councils special card.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:45:35 PM   
Malevolence


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Also look for a faction in your regime that supports your target play style. It sets you somewhat in stone, but is worth the benefits.

For decisions, I roll impossible odds--and fail-- to make sure I get the experience and to enforce my will on the regime.

The quicker you bottom out relation with incompatible leaders, the quicker you can eliminate them.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/20/2020 4:49:17 PM >


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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 4:46:35 PM   
jimwinsor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

I'd advise you to ensure personal combat score is high for your Secret Service Council Director. There is a fate stratagem to assign them a personal guard detail. It increases their personal combat as well.

Also check the target's personal combat skill. It's an opposed roll test.

The image was her first kill and it was lucky. She missed two others beforehand. Now she has become a black widow--with much experience.


Getting an Advisor with high Personal Combat plus a Personal Guard will also do the trick, if you don't mind spending 3PP attaching/detaching to your Secret Service as needed. An "on-call" assassin.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 5:10:13 PM   
Cornuthaum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Autocracy just needs you causing some unrest, that you then beat down with Forces. Happens easily once you go conquering.
Meritocracy? Yes, that one is hard. Unless you get really lucky with that Interior Councils special card.


The easiest profiles to raise are Autocracy and Democracy - literally every unrest event I've had in the last 100 turns of my game was +autocracy, +democracy or do nothing and eat double unrest.

The hardest profiles to raise are Meritocracy (almost no supporting events, and when they happen they target skills that the leaders have no native way to raise skill levels for to actually get their stat bonuses) and Government (literally no support for it, not even from cults that I've seen)

So it's really not feasible to switch off of Autocracy and go back to Meritocracy because not only do you need to erode 50+ points of autocracy, you also have to rebuild Meritocracy to at least 70 - and if I tried to do that it'd be turn 250 in a game and I still wouldn't be there

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 5:19:09 PM   
Malevolence


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Anytime a leader makes a roll, they gain experience in that skill--success or failure. That is the native way to raise skill levels.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/20/2020 5:21:52 PM >


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*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 5:24:13 PM   
Cornuthaum

 

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A zone administrator gains all their relevant Int-based skills simply because they happen during their duties as a Zone Administrator. You know what they don't get? Oratory. The skill used in almost all Meritocracy events. Because the only way to use Oratory is to either be the Foreign Service council leader, or a Zone Admin facing the once-in-a-blue-moon Oratory roll. And guess what happens when you fail - and you will not just fail but critfail, because you have a +15 to the roll and the difficulty is somewhere between 140 and 170? +50 unrest, 5000 extra rebels and still no Oratory skill-ups because it's only a single skill use.

The system's scuffed in several bad ways, none of which are really fit for the topic of this thread, but I've got a lot to say about it and little is good >>

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 5:28:43 PM   
Malevolence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum

A zone administrator gains all their relevant Int-based skills simply because they happen during their duties as a Zone Administrator. You know what they don't get? Oratory. The skill used in almost all Meritocracy events. Because the only way to use Oratory is to either be the Foreign Service council leader, or a Zone Admin facing the once-in-a-blue-moon Oratory roll. And guess what happens when you fail - and you will not just fail but critfail, because you have a +15 to the roll and the difficulty is somewhere between 140 and 170? +50 unrest, 5000 extra rebels and still no Oratory skill-ups because it's only a single skill use.

The system's scuffed in several bad ways, none of which are really fit for the topic of this thread, but I've got a lot to say about it and little is good >>


There is a Propaganda Assistant fate stratagem, and as I wrote, every time they perform an oratory skill roll, they gain experience. There is also the ability to have multiple Advisors and assign one to the Governor.

Like combat, it requires judicious management, but you can push any profiles and any skills. The image is normal difficulty. Notice my Governors favor Meritocracy and Enforcement in their zone administration decisions--not by accident. That's why they get those options when it's time to make a decision.




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< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/20/2020 5:51:04 PM >


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Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 5:35:38 PM   
Malevolence


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... and the opposition party.




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Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to Malevolence)
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RE: Well that's one advantage of losing a leader in com... - 6/20/2020 5:47:40 PM   
Cornuthaum

 

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quote:

and as I wrote, every time they perform an oratory skill roll, they gain experience


Yes, that's nice, but there are almost no Oratory skill rolls *except* for the rare Meritocracy option during Unrest - which has a catastrophic critical failure outcome off of skill check difficulties that are impossible to meet unless you *already have significantly-levelled Oratory*.

And who even has time for the Propaganda Assistant? It's completely random if you ever get the stratagem, if you have the Fate points, and, of course, if it's actually the governor in the zone having the event that has the Propaganda Assistant. Something as sharply limited as fate stratagems isn't a viable answer to a common problem. The Shadow Diplomat *would* be, if it actually covered Oratory too instead of just Diplomacy (which would even make it useful for the goddamn Foreign Council!)

Faction management ain't hard - shovel enough BP into your interior council and use Retirement cards to make leaders you don't want to go away - but getting leader skills is a complete crapshoot half the time due to the insane crit-fail penalties/lack of opportunity to train crucial skills for the leader role even over decades of active service and high capability.

(for reference - out of 40 leaders in my empire, 34 belong to my chosen faction, 5 to three others, and 1 is the bugged-out criminal syndicate capo who founded one of the non-favoured factions that I can't dismiss because he's not a leader under my control)

TLDR: Assassinate Leader is fantastic, but requires you to play Autocracy, the worst Politics-tier profile by a fair margin. Regular leader management isn't hard, just tedious (like a lot of things in SE). Many Leader skill gains and some profile gains are completely scuffed with events as they currently stand and lead to a self-reinforcing failure cycle.

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