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Hexes a 100km wide

 
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Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 5:20:31 AM   
Sieppo


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Just a quick thought. I think hexes should be 100km wide. It's just a bit unrealistic for troops to drive max 2000km to get some supplies. Think how much gas they burn just to bring some back etc. Also post-apocalyptic cities taking 4000 square kilometres where then a couple of thousand warriors fight it out and don't damage anything without artillery. Then the next closest farm or mine or whatever outside the city hex would be 100-150km away. I mean even 100km is not better but it would be an improvement. I understand Vic wants to simulate the true circumference of the planet but still.. I think it could be managed somehow without making the maps humongous. You get the point.
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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 5:29:32 AM   
Ekaton


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Agreed, it leads to very odd frontages - in my present world, there are 1.5 mil survivors post-apocalypse, and somehow there are 2500+ km frontages, manned by two brigades and a few independent battalions.

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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 5:36:12 AM   
Sieppo


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Yeah it's a hard choice. You make one thing very realistic and it makes the other one a bit unrealistic.

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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 5:52:28 AM   
Jdane


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I think Vic made a pretty good case in the manual about the design compromises in Shadow Empire (5.17). I recommend reading it if one hasn't yet, it's quite interesting in my opinion, and I appreciated the openness and the insight it gives into the game design process and the hard choices that come with it.

Don't get me wrong, I totally see Sieppo's point. It's just that I manage not to think too hard about it and take the stated scales as approximations, and mix in some abstraction. As you pointed out, looking from a logistics perspective, the hex is too big, but from a planetary perspective it's about right.

It reminds be of somebody stating they would have preferred if populations were generally lower and that armies could get huge for a post-apocalyptic somewhat backwards planet. But on the other hand, if you consider an early game battle of encirclement in which six small battalions of 1 000 men are attacking from the six corners of a (ooh math...) 600 km big in diagonal region, the world doesn't seem overpopulated so much.

I get though that people can like numbers to add up and the setting make solid sense under all counts. Apologies for the rambling, I was just pointing out to that chapter in the manual in case people didn't know about it.

< Message edited by Jdane -- 6/17/2020 5:53:13 AM >

(in reply to Sieppo)
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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 6:17:07 AM   
Sieppo


Posts: 758
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jdane

I think Vic made a pretty good case in the manual about the design compromises in Shadow Empire (5.17). I recommend reading it if one hasn't yet, it's quite interesting in my opinion, and I appreciated the openness and the insight it gives into the game design process and the hard choices that come with it.

Don't get me wrong, I totally see Sieppo's point. It's just that I manage not to think too hard about it and take the stated scales as approximations, and mix in some abstraction. As you pointed out, looking from a logistics perspective, the hex is too big, but from a planetary perspective it's about right.

It reminds be of somebody stating they would have preferred if populations were generally lower and that armies could get huge for a post-apocalyptic somewhat backwards planet. But on the other hand, if you consider an early game battle of encirclement in which six small battalions of 1 000 men are attacking from the six corners of a (ooh math...) 600 km big in diagonal region, the world doesn't seem overpopulated so much.

I get though that people can like numbers to add up and the setting make solid sense under all counts. Apologies for the rambling, I was just pointing out to that chapter in the manual in case people didn't know about it.


Yes. Actually the only REAL problem I have is with the supply issue. Its just silly in post apocalyptic world filled with apparent scarcity.

(in reply to Jdane)
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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 8:10:42 AM   
Vhalor


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May have been best to just abstract distance entirely. 1 Hex = 1 Hex, the end.

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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 9:27:51 AM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

Just a quick thought. I think hexes should be 100km wide. It's just a bit unrealistic for troops to drive max 2000km to get some supplies.

If they can go 10 hexes, they are using roads. And at 100 km/h, it is just 20 hours. A acceptable timespan for supply runs.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/17/2020 9:28:06 AM >

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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 11:42:40 AM   
GodwinW


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Just never translate it into real world distances in your head and you're fine.

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RE: Hexes a 100km wide - 6/17/2020 12:24:39 PM   
76mm


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I really dislike the weak ZoCs with 200km hexes

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