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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945

 
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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/17/2020 9:00:59 PM   
76mm


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So what's the deal with editors? I won't buy this game until/unless there is a full editor, but IIRC the dev said he would release the editor after all of the scenarios have been released?

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/18/2020 8:21:50 PM   
Freigeist83


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According to the manual, it currently only has a text file based method to create and edit scenarios.

< Message edited by Freigeist83 -- 6/18/2020 8:22:09 PM >

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 4:42:41 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Yes, a Text File for each scenario that contains specifics for that scenario. Each one is 2.5mb, otherwise I would post one of mine here as an example [I 'created' a few scenarios, or rather 'my versions' of scenarios]. These types of files are sometimes a pain because if you make a mistake, the scenario is unplayable. Alternatively, a game such as TOAW will generally let you play with a mistake!

In addition to everything else, earlier versions of this game had Quantitative Supply, but for the newer version it was eliminated. To me this was one of the steps backward and a huge one. Quantitative Supply, for those not familiar, is the V4V type supply system where by you get what supply you are assigned, and you only get so much. All other games give all units everything, or something similar, so not a good model of Logistics.

An example of another step backwards from earlier versions, how Advance After Combat is handled. Used to be that all units eligible to advance were highlighted in blue, you click on a unit to advance. With the new version, after combat you get the pop-up seen below. Because of these you can't tell if the defender retreated or was eliminated, what the terrain under the units is, what units are in an attacking stack, and no matter where you move them they pop back to cover the combat area. The pop-ups cycle thru each unit that attacked one by one. It's really annoying, the old way was so much better.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 2:06:52 PM   
76mm


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Are the file plain text or something like XML?

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 3:40:04 PM   
Simulacra53


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Right now, I think the majority who say the UI is bad are being kind...


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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 3:43:46 PM   
Zovs


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No expert but I looked in what I think is a scenario folder and they are all xml files, plus graphics and stuff.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 3:45:08 PM   
Zovs


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Scratch that! The actually scenarios are text files.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 3:49:40 PM   
Zovs


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But WOW, you need to have a Degree in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, a small Doctorate in Decoding Someones Brain and Codifying with Analysis to decipher what the heck the text file even means...

This is only a snippet and I have no idea how you would edit this to make something working...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+WWE_Scenario_94_Build_File_
+80_characters
Axis_Player_Name Der_Fuhrer_Adolf_Hitler
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+80_characters
Allied_Player_Name Iosef_Stalin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+40_characters
Scenario_Name 94._Breakthrough_to_the_Baltic
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Six_lines_per_turn,_120_variables_per_turn,_318_turns
1Expected_Points 80 89 123 10 0
1Axis_Maxes      10 15 10 0 0
1Allied_Maxes    10 5 20 0 0
1Country_PM_M    0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1Country_PM_N    0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1Spare           0 0 0 0 0
2Expected_Points 75 94 133 20 0
2Axis_Maxes      10 15 10 0 0
2Allied_Maxes    10 5 20 0 0
2Country_PM_M    0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2Country_PM_N    0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2Spare           0 0 0 0 0
3Expected_Points 70 99 143 30 0


...
1/4 way down...
...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+unit244
Side_Nationality_ID_Type_Size_Cmder  None None ___ None None _________________________ _________________________ _________________________
AF_DF_MF_TEM                         0 0 0 0
CombatLosses_CReserve_SReserve_TBD   0 0 0 0
Current_XY_Coordinates               0 0
Entry#_Exit#                         0 0
Reserved_TBD_SSGds_TBD               0 0 0 0
OnMap_DEF_HQ                         n n n
HQUnit                               0
Number                               244
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


...
1/2 way down...
...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+unit244
Side_Nationality_ID_Type_Size_Cmder  None None ___ None None _________________________ _________________________ _________________________
AF_DF_MF_TEM                         0 0 0 0
CombatLosses_CReserve_SReserve_TBD   0 0 0 0
Current_XY_Coordinates               0 0
Entry#_Exit#                         0 0
Reserved_TBD_SSGds_TBD               0 0 0 0
OnMap_DEF_HQ                         n n n
HQUnit                               0
Number                               244
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


...
near the bottom...
...
city	0	0	0	0	0	0	_________________________
city	0	0	0	0	0	8192	_________________________
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Counter_RGB_values_light_medium_dark_40_counters
Counter0_light 188 188 188
Counter0_medium 155 155 155
Counter0_dark 70 70 66
Counter1_light 215 215 215
Counter1_medium 195 195 195



< Message edited by Zovs -- 6/19/2020 3:51:31 PM >


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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 4:25:22 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Scratch that! The actually scenarios are text files.


OT: Your inbox if full.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 7:45:43 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

you need to have a Degree in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, a small Doctorate in Decoding Someones Brain and Codifying with Analysis to decipher what the heck the text file even means...

Not true! I am an idiot and I can do it!

[The secret decoder document comes with the manual]

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 8:00:53 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

you need to have a Degree in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, a small Doctorate in Decoding Someones Brain and Codifying with Analysis to decipher what the heck the text file even means...

Not true! I am an idiot and I can do it!

[The secret decoder document comes with the manual]

Delete all after 'idiot'.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 8:43:37 PM   
Freigeist83


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That's too easy...

Why not assemble scenarios directly in machine code for the extra challenge...

I am wondering why Ron keeps working on scenarios if the basic game engine and interface needs a performance fix to be properly playable.

I mean that game is from 2014 and now we are in 2020.

The project feels like a "rough diamond" that needs to be polished and it could easily be the best operational level game on the market.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 9:02:32 PM   
Simulacra53


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To put it differently, what makes it potentially the best operational wargame on the market?

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 9:06:46 PM   
Zovs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Scratch that! The actually scenarios are text files.


OT: Your inbox if full.


Try again please.


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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 9:07:37 PM   
Freigeist83


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quote:

To put it differently, what makes it potentially the best operational wargame on the market?


- Map and counter design
- Unique, well-researched scenarios
- Low counter density and a hex-scale that make scenarios playable
- Air, ground and naval combat model



< Message edited by Freigeist83 -- 6/19/2020 9:08:35 PM >

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/19/2020 11:34:24 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
But WOW, you need to have a Degree in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, a small Doctorate in Decoding Someones Brain and Codifying with Analysis to decipher what the heck the text file even means...

Ugh, I'll pass...

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/20/2020 6:45:42 PM   
RFalvo69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

To put it differently, what makes it potentially the best operational wargame on the market?


First: it is the best simulation of WWII in Europe on the market for those nostalgic of the classic “Europa” series of tabletop games.
Second: it has 100+ scenarios, many of them equal or bigger of other titles published for full price. I mean... North Africa 1940-42 is one of them.

True, the interface is a PitA - until you get adjusted with it. This requires a bit of commitment, but the sheer quantity of scenarios/gameplay offered makes the effort worthwhile. The game still lacks the biggest scenarios (like the whole war) but I bought it back in the day and I would buy it again.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 5:54:25 PM   
pkpowers

 

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overall, the scenarios presented are very well done. Selecting and moving units involve multi-clicks, and to me the worse is zooming and scrolling the map. Combat is well presented and you are given a grade status (A thru F) of your generalship each turn.
I find myself having to be extremely patient as I slowly play a turn ; guess I'm use to flying thru a turn ( TOAW or Tiller's games)

< Message edited by pkpowers -- 6/21/2020 10:34:28 PM >

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 6:26:46 PM   
Franciscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

To put it differently, what makes it potentially the best operational wargame on the market?


First: it is the best simulation of WWII in Europe on the market for those nostalgic of the classic “Europa” series of tabletop games.
Second: it has 100+ scenarios, many of them equal or bigger of other titles published for full price. I mean... North Africa 1940-42 is one of them.

True, the interface is a PitA - until you get adjusted with it. This requires a bit of commitment, but the sheer quantity of scenarios/gameplay offered makes the effort worthwhile. The game still lacks the biggest scenarios (like the whole war) but I bought it back in the day and I would buy it again.


Exactly my thoughts.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 6:57:36 PM   
Gandalf


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If you're waiting for a full Schwerpunkt War in Europe Scenario, you'll probably be waiting another 10 years or so, if even then. I enthusiastically followed the development for a while but it became apparent that the designer is a "one man show" and the game will probably never be completed in our life times. Even if it is completed, the UI will then be so outdated as to require reworking again for another 2 to 3 years. Ron Dockal (the designer) is a nice enough person, but taking on the entire design/production single-handedly is a bit too much.

I've returned to GGWITE. and I expect GGWITE2 will be released and updated a half dozen times before this game is even completed. By completed I mean a full War in Europe scenario. I predict it will be abandonware before it's completed.

< Message edited by Gandalf -- 6/21/2020 7:18:13 PM >

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 7:28:35 PM   
budd


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Here's the list of scenarios. The yellow highlighted aren't finished yet. Mr. Dockal just posted on the forum a couple of days ago, i guess he's going through a divorce but still working on scenario 102.





Attachment (1)

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 7:33:41 PM   
budd


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There really isn't an official manual, here's a link to the unofficial manual. It's well done, put together by a user.

http://dogsofwarvu.com/forum/index.php/topic,2538.0.html

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 7:54:21 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf

If you're waiting for a full Schwerpunkt War in Europe Scenario, you'll probably be waiting another 10 years or so, if even then. I enthusiastically followed the development for a while but it became apparent that the designer is a "one man show" and the game will probably never be completed in our life times. Even if it is completed, the UI will then be so outdated as to require reworking again for another 2 to 3 years. Ron Dockal (the designer) is a nice enough person, but taking on the entire design/production single-handedly is a bit too much.

I've returned to GGWITE. and I expect GGWITE2 will be released and updated a half dozen times before this game is even completed. By completed I mean a full War in Europe scenario. I predict it will be abandonware before it's completed.


They've been working on WitE2 for at least 5 years. And with more than one person doing it.

Oh, and let's not forget they had the WitE/WitW platform to start it with.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/21/2020 7:56:02 PM >


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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 8:18:18 PM   
Gandalf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

They've been working on WitE2 for at least 5 years. And with more than one person doing it.

Oh, and let's not forget they had the WitE/WitW platform to start it with.


That's even sadder, regarding the lack of progress. I know he has alpha/beta testers, but I don't think he has anyone helping with the actual coding. He pretty much keeps that to himself.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 8:56:32 PM   
Freigeist83


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The question is if Ron will fix the map scrolling and interface performance issues in the near future...

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 9:19:45 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

They've been working on WitE2 for at least 5 years. And with more than one person doing it.

Oh, and let's not forget they had the WitE/WitW platform to start it with.


That's even sadder, regarding the lack of progress. I know he has alpha/beta testers, but I don't think he has anyone helping with the actual coding. He pretty much keeps that to himself.



You mean it's sad one guy doesn't get as much done as several over the course of over five years?

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/21/2020 9:55:31 PM   
Gandalf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

You mean it's sad one guy doesn't get as much done as several over the course of over five years?


Mo, I actually meant that it's even sadder that his progress has been as slow as it's been, if indeed he had more than one person actually working on the coding. But I really don't think he's sharing the coding with anyone else.

Pelton an avid GGWITE fan, stated that Dockal was pretty much a one man show, half a dozen years or so ago and I disagreed with him at the time. Six years has pretty much proved Pelton correct on his observation.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/22/2020 2:00:43 AM   
budd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Freigeist83

The question is if Ron will fix the map scrolling and interface performance issues in the near future...

I agree, it's the scrolling and zooming that keeps me from playing it more. I would deal with the clicky UI.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Freigeist83)
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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/22/2020 11:17:09 AM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf
Mo, I actually meant that it's even sadder that his progress has been as slow as it's been, if indeed he had more than one person actually working on the coding. But I really don't think he's sharing the coding with anyone else.


Yes, Ron Dockal is a one-man shop, doing all of the coding and scenario building. I've been one of his playtesters for many years and I appreciate his efforts. The scrolling and zooming issues aside, the interface works and the game plays mostly well.

However, I also have a couple of long-standing gripes. First, there are still some gameplay issues that warrant attention and resolution. Building a hundred scenarios is a great goal, but it doesn't matter if the game mechanics aren't squeaky clean to be able to play them. Second, the game is an excellent operational-level simulation but it is not a grand strategy wargame complete with production, diplomacy, research, etc. The monster scenarios need that stuff to simulate the entire war in ETO but it's just problematic trying to bang operational level into grand strategy. And for maybe a handful of players who might actually play the entire war at division level and 1-week turns; not me.

Anyways, as Ron eventually gets around to working on game mechanics, the operational level scenarios will be fine. At some point he will release the scenario editor and folks can make their own adjustments. I am patient and await the goodness to come.

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RE: Schwerpunkt Games - World War II Europe 1939-1945 - 6/22/2020 2:20:56 PM   
Freigeist83


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It would be great if Ron would focus on the performance issues of the game and implement a visual scenario editor.

The community could then start to build and improve scenarios.

The remaining scenarios are huge and I personally don't think that those should be the focus of this game and will ever be completed with the current speed of development.

The game mechanics feel right for smaller to medium-sized scenarios like Denmark, Rostov, Leningrad, Crete...





< Message edited by Freigeist83 -- 6/22/2020 2:21:51 PM >

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