Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Libertad o Muerte!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Libertad o Muerte! Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Libertad o Muerte! - 6/12/2020 7:53:15 PM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 523
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline
Libertad o Muerte! Has been released on Steam.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1174420/Libertad_o_Muerte/

20% release discount

Libertad o Muerte! is a turn based wargame that covers the wars of Liberation in Latin-America from 1810 to 1825.
You can play as Royalist or as Patriots in 5 different scenarios:

La Plata 1810-1822
Bolivar 1810-1822
Mexico 1810-1820
Great Campaign 1810-1825
Early Years 1810-1815

https://www.hqwargames.com/index.php/LoM-wargame/

Short tutorial available on YouTube
https://youtu.be/6tBfh__s00E

The same team is behind Battles for Spain, España 1936, English Civil War & Thirty Years War - the latter three titles published by Matrix.

...

Just bought my own copy.

< Message edited by Simulacra53 -- 6/12/2020 10:32:01 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/13/2020 7:24:04 AM   
Alan Sharif

 

Posts: 1008
Joined: 8/1/2001
From: UK.
Status: offline
A great, and overlooked, subject for a wargame.

_____________________________

A Sharif

(in reply to Simulacra53)
Post #: 2
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/13/2020 7:47:24 AM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
Thanks, I'll purchase it. Very unique topic. I know Miguel from AGEOD. Battles For Spain also seems good.

(in reply to Alan Sharif)
Post #: 3
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/13/2020 8:39:01 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7690
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
XTRG did a stream on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6oIr6MNCxo

(in reply to gamer78)
Post #: 4
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/13/2020 10:17:39 AM   
Don60420

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
I was a playtester on the game, and I think it provides a good look at a neglected subject, the Latin American wars of independence against Spain. The game designer is quite responsive to input, and quashes discovered bugs swiftly.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 5
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/13/2020 10:11:21 PM   
Gilmer


Posts: 1377
Joined: 7/1/2011
Status: offline
The head of PR for Avalon Digital is Agrippa Maxientus who is fairly well known around here.

_____________________________

He that has a mind to fight, let him fight, for now is the time. - Anacreon
My youtube channel link is under my profile. About 90% of it is Ageod.

(in reply to Don60420)
Post #: 6
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/16/2020 11:21:16 PM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
I did practice the game against AI , if anyone interested I'll play pbem. I think this is Miguel's best game for me after España 1936. Cheers.

(in reply to Gilmer)
Post #: 7
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/17/2020 12:19:37 AM   
redcoat


Posts: 1041
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

Review at The Wargamer:

https://www.wargamer.com/reviews/libertad-o-muerte/



_____________________________

"He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past."

George Orwell

(in reply to gamer78)
Post #: 8
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/17/2020 1:28:19 AM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
I must respectfully disagree with this review. What was Birth of America at first. Very basic.-just for review mention it- improved after ACW1 and 2. I was the beta tester most their games including Russian Civil War. Designer knows well about the Spanish World and not limited to that Avalon Digital is the next AGEOD game for me they plan to the conflicts forgotten.

Yes combat can be a bit improved and the card system a bit but for logistics it is 6 months a turn for this conflict in this game. It is quite good and challenging game against AI. Cheers.

< Message edited by gamer78 -- 6/17/2020 2:21:00 AM >

(in reply to redcoat)
Post #: 9
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/17/2020 6:29:49 AM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 523
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline
https://www.wargamer.com/reviews/libertad-o-muerte/
vs
https://www.wargamer.com/reviews/battles-for-spain/

Same engine, same developer. same website, different reviewers.
I can understand some of the comments that Trumbull makes, but his review is more about liking the Avalon engine or not and as such it can be compared with the review for Battles for Spain.

Battles can be somewhat “controlled” by smart use of your cards.
The game could be more clear about when you have to play a card, or skip it saving your cards for a better occasion. Because many cards also have conditions it can end up feeling constricted, but it really isn’t once you get into it.

In the end you either like this type of game or you do not.
If you do not, you will not like any title using the Avalon engine.

Jack Trumbull would write an equally negative review on WaW, Winter War and Battles for Spain.
Bill Gray will write positive reviews on these titles.

That’s taste and that’s fine.

Written reviews have their value, but as you can see between these two reviewers, taste and/or bias is a big factor. This type of game is not for everyone, nor is the subject.

When in doubt YouTube is your friend - watch the game being played and decide if that’s something YOU like.

Just for some context, Wargamer.com reviews by Bill Gray.
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/wars-across-the-world-avalon-digital/
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/winter-war-early-access/

Although these card and dice games are not entirely my cup of tea, I have based my purchase on YT gameplay footage - there were no surprises.

(in reply to gamer78)
Post #: 10
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/17/2020 4:42:51 PM   
AndySfromVA

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

Although these card and dice games are not entirely my cup of tea, I have based my purchase on YT gameplay footage - there were no surprises.


I've tried to get into Wars Across the World, from the same creator, several times but haven't been able to generate much enthusiasm for it despite the fact that it has wonderful maps and interesting scenarios. I've concluded that it's the card and dice gameplay that I can't appreciate. But each to his own.

(in reply to Simulacra53)
Post #: 11
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/17/2020 6:45:07 PM   
gamer78

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
I believe it isn't pure card driven game. It has regions just like any other turn based game. Cards are important but not as much as maneuver warfare; catching rebel milícia. Merging and detaching forces when needed. Map is cool so as the Latin American history. AI Phases doesn't take too long when set to 1 seconds delay. It is IGOUGO turns game.

(in reply to AndySfromVA)
Post #: 12
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/17/2020 10:31:13 PM   
Petermil

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2020
Status: offline
The wargamer review was spot on. The game has no soul.

The scenarios have been created with the free editor of war across world. And they were meant to be played in war across the world. But War Across World (9 euro) was replaced by the engine of the Spanish civil war (B4S), a surrogate, dressed as the Latin-American revolution, libertad o muerte (22 euro). The result is that what costs 9 euros now costs 22 euros. why?, there is no free editor and you can't play the WAW scenarios either. This has not been said, but the buyers should know.

I don't know if it can be important, but the game has worsened historically and I don't know the ultimate reason for these decisions. But the result has been that the most important thing about the campaigns in Latin America, which have been going on since 1820, are not really played. Turned point in 1820, the Spanish army revolts and does not embark to fight, and after 1820 the most emblematic battles take place in Latin America.

These three small scenarios pre-1820 have their origin in the "early campaign" scenario (redundant). These scenarios tehoretically were to incorporate a Phase of Supply (WAW) essential in Frederick style and guerrilla warfare, which is the heart of this pre-1820 campaigns. But it didn't happen that way. Then, this is the reason why you do not understand the nature of the early war.

1)- Rio de La Plata
2)- Bolivar
3)- Mexico

Now you have early campaign(redundant) and South-America(redundant). But two big scenarios (post-1820) also do not exist, and should explain the regular warfare, and survive by devastating, on napoleonic style:

4)-Historical post-1820 total map campaign (Historical)
5)-Fictional post-1820 total map campaign (Riego invasion).

The best thing about the game is its collection of historical images, but a recognition of the original artists should be made in the manual. Look at the cover of that game. It's a soldier paint by Cesar Puliafito, argentinean illustrator, that is superimposed on the painting of "El Abrazo de Maipú" 1908 Oil by Pedro Subercaseaux, Collection, Museo Histórico Nacional de Buenos Aires, Argentina. And so on with everything else. It doesn't cost a single euro to put it in the credit manual.

As it happened to Pinocchio, to have a soul, it is not enough to copy and paste and make a remix. For example was erased from the original map the historical privateers bases of the circumcaribbean, its bays and historical islands. And it was replaced by those four markers that do not represent anything that has ever happened at privateers. The player might think that something happened there, a route perhaps, but no. Nothing ever happened in those four markers, historically talking about. Again, do it right doesn't cost.

But I think the worst is that this game worsened the problem of combat phase (serious design flaw) of war across world. A solution: starts by giving the result, and a button capable of rewinding and pausing, if someone has not yet tired of seeing the same animation, again and again. But now everything happens frenetically, Jiminy Cricket jump here and there, your ends with a cross-eye and alleged explanation of the combat phase, that not help to play. By the way, I don't like these combat animations, Panzer General 1 had better animations in the 80s.




< Message edited by Petermil -- 6/18/2020 12:20:09 AM >

(in reply to gamer78)
Post #: 13
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/18/2020 4:30:27 PM   
jack54


Posts: 1320
Joined: 7/18/2007
From: East Tennessee
Status: offline
I like the game; I think it will appeal to anyone that likes WaW as well as the 'Blocks' Games by Avalon Digital. This reminds me of playing a board game with random cards and die rolls.



Off Topic but I'll admit I like Hq's Ageod games better; English Civil War, Spanish Civil War and The 30 yrs War are some of my favorite games ... I hope Miguel and company (Hq) get their hands on the "New Ageod Engine" someday .

We could use more than just Pocus.

_____________________________

Avatar: Me borrowing Albert Ball's Nieuport 17

Counter from Bloody April by Terry Simo (GMT)

(in reply to Petermil)
Post #: 14
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/18/2020 7:37:52 PM   
redcoat


Posts: 1041
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline





I spent some time in Ecuador and Peru in the 80s and 90s. Whilst I was there I visited a few memorials and sites relating to Simón Bolívar and the Wars of Liberation. I was surprised to find a lot of memorials to soldiers with British names. They were from the British Legion (Legión Británica). Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Legions

Is the British Legion represented in the game?

The Legion played an important part in Bolívar’s campaigns. He described them as the saviours of his nation ("Los Salvadores de mi Nación") after the Battle of Carabobo (1821).





Moreover, does the game include the Royal Navy officers that played a role in the Wars of Independence - such as Thomas Cochrane?




_____________________________

"He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past."

George Orwell

(in reply to jack54)
Post #: 15
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/18/2020 7:47:03 PM   
Petermil

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jack54

I like the game; I think it will appeal to anyone that likes WaW as well as the 'Blocks' Games by Avalon Digital. This reminds me of playing a board game with random cards and die rolls.



I like cards and dice a lot and I like the original War Across World engine (WAW). But the question is what value added does the Headquarters engine, have that you paid 22 euros, for compared to 9 euros of WAW original?. The user lost all the WAW scenarios, the free editor and has paid double of money for nothing. Just dam be honest about your game when selling.

< Message edited by Petermil -- 6/18/2020 7:48:59 PM >

(in reply to jack54)
Post #: 16
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/18/2020 8:01:03 PM   
Petermil

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat
Is the British Legion represented in the game? The Legion played an important part in Bolívar’s campaigns.

Moreover, does the game include the Royal Navy officers that played a role in the Wars of Independence - such as Thomas Cochrane?




1) Agree British legions were essential in winning the battles of Bolivar. Thomas Ferrier lost his life, but at the head of the British legion they won the victory over the Spanish flank that meant the patriotic victory in the battle of Carabobo (year1821), and the destruction of the entire Spanish army in Venezuela. Even in the final battle of Ayacucho (year1824), lead by Arthur Sandes, it was the British legion that was sacrificed in a gorge to save the patriot army from defeat. But this happens at the end of the war, not early campaigns. By the way, Gregor McGregor, who invaded Panama and Florida, is the quintessential adventurer.

2) The Master and Commander, the role of Thomas Cochrane is decisive, he led the Chilean fleet to annihilate the Spanish navy in the Pacific. The game deals terrifyingly badly with naval warfare. It should be 1) a war of the patriotic navies (exercised by British and other foreign captains), on the South American coasts, 2) but there is another naval war, of the insurgent privateers (mostly American captains) in the circumcaribbean.

< Message edited by Petermil -- 6/18/2020 8:37:30 PM >

(in reply to redcoat)
Post #: 17
RE: Libertad o Muerte! - 6/24/2020 6:42:44 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2778
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
I am locking this thread as PeterMil has a personal relationship with the developer of the game from a previous project that did not end well and as a result has an axe to grind. PeterMil please do not comment on this game. Any additional posts by you about this game will be deleted. If you do not adhere to this you will be banned. If you want to discuss this please contact support, but no discussion of this will take place on the forum.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Petermil)
Post #: 18
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Libertad o Muerte! Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.148