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RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 7:07:49 PM   
FlashXAron_slith

 

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at the moment it make not really sense to upgrade ANY plant , which mines resources, which have a special amount , like oil, water etc. , as you only invest more resources but only mine faster ...

better would be that resources have different layers and you need to upgrade the mines to get them ...
so a resource hex , would have layers and you need the proper upgraded mine to harvest it,

OIL Layer I : 10000 t
OIL Layer II : 22000 t
OIL Layer III : 18000 t

So with an oil well Lev 3 you could mine all ... but with an oil well lev 1 you only get 10000t oil ...
Post #: 1
RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 8:08:57 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Agreed, mine upgrades are totally useless. When would you ever need a T2 Water Mine?
A T5 dome can be almost supplied by a T1 Water Mine (1000 / 1440). With production bonuses, it propably is.

The idea with different layers makes the most sense, as that is how it works in real life. Every serious study on the reserve first splits the reserves into 3 "Price Categories":
Currently Economical
Technically possible
Seriously who could afford that anymore?

(in reply to FlashXAron_slith)
Post #: 2
RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 8:25:09 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

But the largest additions to reserves weren’t via new discoveries at all. The largest reserves additions have been a result of rising oil prices, and this is a source of frequent misunderstanding on the topic on reserves.

An oil resource describes the total amount of oil in place, most of which typically can’t be technically or economically recovered. For example, it is estimated that the Bakken Shale centered under North Dakota may contain several hundred billion barrels of oil (the resource). However, what is technically and economically recoverable in the Bakken may be less than 10 billion barrels.

The portion that is technically AND economically recoverable is the proved reserve. Because of the requirement that the oil be economically recoverable, proved reserves are a function of oil prices and available technology.

Thus, as oil prices rise, oil resources that may have been discovered decades ago can be shifted into the category of proved reserves. Venezuela provides a perfect case study of this phenomenon. Venezuela has an enormous heavy oil resource in the Orinoco region of the country. But this oil is very expensive to extract. In 2003, Venezuela’s proved oil reserves were only 77 billion barrels. At that time Saudi Arabia’s reserves were tops in the world at 263 billion barrels.

After the past decade saw oil prices rise to above $100/barrel, more of Venezuela’s heavy oil resource became economic to produce. Thus, by 2013 Venezuela’s proved reserves were estimated to be tops in the world — 289 billion barrels. Saudi Arabia has now slipped to second with 266 billion barrels.

But that economic argument cuts both ways. Oil and gas resources that became proved reserves as prices rose will be declassified as proved reserves should lower prices render them uneconomical to produce. This is often the reason that companies have to write down proved reserves. It’s not that a company believed there was oil or gas and found out later that there wasn’t (although that of course also happens), it’s generally because a period of depressed prices has rendered those proved reserves to be no longer economical. See the dip in gas reserves in 2012?

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-Link-Between-Oil-Reserves-And-Oil-Prices.html

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 9:44:07 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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It might not be worth it to upgrade mining assets if you have easy access to those resources relative to economic needs. On the map I'm currently playing, metal is a huge bottleneck in my (and the other majors') economy. On turn 34 nobody has managed to develop a metal deposit yet and the market price has gone up to 5 credits per unit. I'm going to have to upgrade the 3 recycling assets I've been able to secure in order to ramp up my economy at a reasonable pace, and if I can't find any metal deposits before the scrap runs out, I'll transition to using soil demetalization plants. If it remains this scarce, staying ahead in the amount resourced will be a huge military and economic advantage, and if I happen to not find a metal deposit and somebody else does, I'll need all the head-start I can get.

(I am not against allowing more developed assets to access larger, deeper reserves, though, that seems to make perfect sense.)

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 4
RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 11:11:08 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

It might not be worth it to upgrade mining assets if you have easy access to those resources relative to economic needs. On the map I'm currently playing, metal is a huge bottleneck in my (and the other majors') economy. On turn 34 nobody has managed to develop a metal deposit yet and the market price has gone up to 5 credits per unit. I'm going to have to upgrade the 3 recycling assets I've been able to secure in order to ramp up my economy at a reasonable pace, and if I can't find any metal deposits before the scrap runs out, I'll transition to using soil demetalization plants. If it remains this scarce, staying ahead in the amount resourced will be a huge military and economic advantage, and if I happen to not find a metal deposit and somebody else does, I'll need all the head-start I can get.

(I am not against allowing more developed assets to access larger, deeper reserves, though, that seems to make perfect sense.)

You scenario is the exception. Also a example of why upgrading is a bad idea:
The quicker you dig it up, the quicker you will run out. You will have somewhat more metal now, but once you factor in the costs for upgrades you will have less overall metal.
If you consume metal that fast, what will your economy do once there is no more metal to mine? Better to set up your economy for Metal scarcity. Also propably your army. The "Gas Powered Small Arms" are firepower wise a downgrade from Autmatic rifles. But they are really ammo efficient.

Also, your example would actually benefit from this. Once you think about it, aren't "make material out of Soil" plant just a realy pricy way to get really deep resources?
This is the final level - if no conventional mining upgrade will help to get anymore.
The change would simply add levels between those extremes.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 5
RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 11:18:19 PM   
GodwinW


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It's not a bad idea really. Though sometimes booming fast is the only way to win a war of course. But the idea to me seems worth considering (as long as the deeper levels also increase the speed of extraction).

(in reply to FlashXAron_slith)
Post #: 6
RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/11/2020 11:38:49 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

It's not a bad idea really. Though sometimes booming fast is the only way to win a war of course. But the idea to me seems worth considering (as long as the deeper levels also increase the speed of extraction).

There should very well be spots that can only be drilled with a higher Tier mine.
If you got access to deeper spots, you got access to more spots. So upgrades will still get you more resources over time. Also, actually more overall resources.
Naturally the prices need do adapt.

It is like right now you only have two levels of Fuel/Metal mining:
- Get it from the uppermost layers
- Drill all the way to Core!
You go right from layer 1 to layer 6.

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 7
RE: RESOURCE MINING - 6/12/2020 10:40:30 AM   
zgrssd

 

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There is a fix in the beta, with "easy of mining" not working.
"-Mining Level had a glitch with production. Fixed. Expect some lower income in lower ease-of-mining-level mines."
Maybe that makes those high mine levels situationally viable. But I would still prefer the whole "multiple layer" system.

Regarding the Idea itself:
On peculiar issue is teh question: "How do figure out who can dig how deep?" Minors in particular should have issues getting anything bu the top-layer.
I would propably tie it to the Techlevel.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 8
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