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Nerfing "Call to Power I"

 
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Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/10/2020 6:08:52 PM   
RecliningJohnnyD

 

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I'm enjoying my time with the game so far, playing on regular.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is just how powerful the call to power I stratagem seems to be. I have so far been at war with two majors, one at about turn 65 and one at about turn 115, both of whom declared war on me with a military both numerically and technologically superior to my own. Both wars started out as trench fights, with my inferior troops managing to hold their own with the usage of the defense and entrenchment stratagems. So far so good, I prepared to ramp up military production and designed and produced some armoured forces to strengthen my lines and prepare for a breakthrough.

My suggestions below may be due to my limited understanding of game mechanics.

I had a very capable director of the secret service council, so I started deploying multiple spies into enemy territory to gain intel, and the enemy seemed strong all the way back to their capital zone.
Now, here's where it got a little bit too easy.

The first feat of Autocracy grants you the stratagem card "Call to power I", which supposedly incites enemy troops to mutiny. I had several cards available, and with my skillful director was able to play several of them. I didn't count, but with several critical successes, there were a lot of deserters. Afterward, my forces were able to easily achieve several breakthroughs and encirclements, against what felt like a severely depleted foe.
While still mopping up that major through a mountain range, one of my other neighbours launched a surprise attack. His superiority was even greater, both in technology, industry and starting OOB. My skilful secret service director was able to do the same thing to them and it was a steamroll. Several corps and brigade headquarters seemed to be without their subordinate units.

Now, as I said, I don't know if I know enough about the game to chalk all of this up to my playing of the stratagems. It could have been that they were engaged elsewhere (although it didn't seem like it) or something else sapping their industrial base (although after capture all their zones had better industry than mine).

My suggestion is either to nerf this by reducing availability of the card, raising its cost or moving it further back in the tree. Note that this was accomplished by just using the call to arms I card, there is also a II and III further up in the tree. I can only dream of what Director Cunninglight could accomplish with those!

Although it was cool to be able to use the cards like that and a testament to the ingenuity of the stratagem system, it was almost a bit too easy and felt almost like an exploit. Perhaps it was so because I chose someone very talented for the position, but I think the cards power motivates a nerf. The democracy equivalent comes into play far later (I haven't tried those yet, but I imagine you are then allied to the rebels, as in the eXplorminate let's play?), which I think would be a good compromise.

Has anyone else had experience with this card?

Further I'd like to second all pleas for deleting roads and air & naval units.

God save the Vic,

JohnnyD
Post #: 1
RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/10/2020 6:26:10 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

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Well, it looks like it's time to open up my secret service council in my current game with an autocracy score of 88. I had been holding off on it in favor of other priorities.

Perhaps I can report back later on the card's effectiveness in my game.

(in reply to RecliningJohnnyD)
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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/10/2020 6:41:41 PM   
zgrssd

 

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A simple fix might be:
Can only be played 1/turn on each Major. The game already has a number of "no Strategem player on this Major this Turn" constraints.

(in reply to AttuWatcher)
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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/10/2020 10:02:36 PM   
GodwinW


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I must say it sounds good. Currently facing a pretty nasty combo of a serious invasion and troublesome epoch and generally pretty bad leaders (I have 1 Cap III, rest is lower, cannot seem to get new ones, have to use mercs as regular directors) and, of course, didn't go for Autocracy :p
It's great to hear going that route certainly has its advantages.
Certainly want to try it out in my next game, whenever that may be :p

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/10/2020 10:13:29 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

I must say it sounds good. Currently facing a pretty nasty combo of a serious invasion and troublesome epoch and generally pretty bad leaders (I have 1 Cap III, rest is lower, cannot seem to get new ones, have to use mercs as regular directors) and, of course, didn't go for Autocracy :p
It's great to hear going that route certainly has its advantages.
Certainly want to try it out in my next game, whenever that may be :p

The free leaders you get from Factions are usually bad. Expect Capacity 1, be happy if you get a Capacity 3 one. And they will be prefered on the selection even with poor(er) suiteability. They can still roll a 4 or 5, but it is not worth getting them for that chance.

Also, you can "kill" a faction if the last Leader belonging to it dies. So if the faction is not usefull for my gameplan, I do not get any leaders from them.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/10/2020 10:14:26 PM >

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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/10/2020 11:10:21 PM   
GodwinW


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Well I got 1. Just 1. From a Faction. So yeah.. mercs all the way :D Military coup :D

(in reply to zgrssd)
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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/11/2020 8:23:27 AM   
RecliningJohnnyD

 

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Thanks for your input guys!

I agree that limiting it to one use per turn would be a reasonable balance! Good idea. That should increase the value and benefit of acquiring the higher levels of the card too.

You have a point Godwin, I saw on the forums that some people believed autocracy to be the weaker choice. I might add that my regime, on the whole, is meritocratic. I've only unlocked the first two feats of autocracy, which is enough to get the card, which is enabled by the first feat.

I very much look forward to hearing about the effectiveness of the higher level cards Attu!

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 7
RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/11/2020 8:37:51 AM   
Vic


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I'll revisit these Stratagems to check up on them. Thanks for reporting.

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(in reply to RecliningJohnnyD)
Post #: 8
RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/11/2020 8:51:11 AM   
RecliningJohnnyD

 

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Thanks!

I'll reiterate that my concerns could be due to limited experience with the game, as I've only played the one (albeit long) game so far.

(in reply to Vic)
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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/11/2020 8:29:06 PM   
RecliningJohnnyD

 

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After further playing, I've encountered a regime on whom I can't play the stratagem. I'll have to do it the hard way.
It could be an indication that it's working as intended.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 10
RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/13/2020 9:00:16 AM   
TheSquid

 

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IMO it would make more sense if playing these strategems didn't produce an instant/immediate (and devastating) result (such as mass desertion), but instead required a steady investment of a number of (related but potentially different) strategems against that regime over a period of time.

I'm thinking having spies/agitators effectively create a faction inside their Government that is favourable to you - or alternatively, subvert one of their factions so it becomes favourable to you.

So instead of inciting their troops to mutiny, perhaps something to cause massive unrest, or even rebels - thereby requiring the enemy regime to divert significant military resources to quash the unrest/rebellion. Of course getting to the point of rebellion should take a while, and the enemy regime would naturally attempt to counter threats to stability (if it noticed in time).

Actually if rebels were generated, perhaps we could control them like freedom fighters (terrorists) sponsored by our regime.

I guess one of the issues with the system (also what I wrote above) is that the best "checks and balances" against this kind of thing becoming OP would normally revolve around the enemy regime finding out about this and taking action against you - which isn't really a concern if the regime in question is at war with you already...

(in reply to RecliningJohnnyD)
Post #: 11
RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/13/2020 9:38:13 AM   
zgrssd

 

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Problem was adressed in 1.03:
"-Fine-tuned the 9 “Call To X” Stratagems. Their effects are now maximized to avoid too big results in large AI Zones.*"
Effects are now capped. But those changes need a new game to take effect (apparently cards are stored in the savegame).

(in reply to TheSquid)
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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/13/2020 2:57:41 PM   
Malevolence


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Cards are stored in the scenario ruleset file used to create the first savegame file. Those defs become immutable in each subsequent savegame file.


< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/13/2020 2:59:37 PM >


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RE: Nerfing "Call to Power I" - 6/13/2020 4:18:25 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Cards are stored in the scenario ruleset file used to create the first savegame file. Those defs become immutable in each subsequent savegame file.


Thus far, most files seem to be just good old zip containers, around what is propably a collection of files.
Unforetunately it is a password protected .zip, so I could not yet go and look at them.

It is also interesting that "new game" tooltip says it will "try to load randomgame.se1". So currently there seems to be no difference between a savegame and scenario file.
Since the game will now also save planets upon generation (resulting in a .se1 file you can load again), this may open up some degree of modding already.

It actualyl reminds me of how scenarios were done, back in Civilisation 2.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 14
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