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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 10:26:51 AM   
MVokt

 

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The paratrooper units being so decisive in getting France surrender simply should not happen. It' just wrong. Paratroopers weren't that strong in real war.

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 10:41:48 AM   
Flaviusx


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I wouldn't say the French army was neutered, they lost maybe two corps equivalents. But...it really wasn't all that necessary, either. A good German player could knock out the French even reinforced with colonials quickly enough. This ends up helping novice Germans, I guess. I don't think it breaks the game so I won't cry about it. The Axis just lost their free Yugoslavia, after all, so...

Nicely done, and now you have mastered this part of the game. Some allied players may choose to send a strong BEF, but that won't change the result, merely delay it a month and half or so.

The weather matters less here than you'd think, btw, since most of your new construction only begins to arrive in April anyways and won't be fully in place before May. It does help the Germans knock off Belgium in one turn. (Which should happen in just about every game. Highly unlikely you won't get at least one early clear turn before May.)

It's hard to go deep into France with only the two panzers you start with.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 8/2/2020 10:43:09 AM >


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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 10:58:27 AM   
Flaviusx


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The paratrooper is helpful, not decisive. And from the allied standpoint I don't mind seeing it used and busy in France as opposed to the UK.

Anyways, paras are getting a nerf. Even with that nerf, they could still do this kind of drop, though, and it's fine.

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 12:32:12 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Nicely done, and now you have mastered this part of the game.


Thanks, what's next now? I am tempted by an early Barbarossa in 1940...

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 1:23:08 PM   
malkarma

 

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Try it...we will figure the outcome...

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 1:51:32 PM   
ncc1701e


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oh no - Enigma has been cracked

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/2/2020 2:20:08 PM   
Flaviusx


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I don't think a 1940 Barbarossa can work, lol, but would love to see somebody try it. You just don't have either the time or the forces to pull it off, and you don't even have the Axis minors activated yet to widen the front. By 1941 the Soviets would be pretty monstrous and your gains limited.

Speaking of which, I finally launched my own Barbarossa in late May in my mirror match with MM. 20 dead rifle corps on the first turn. He'll probably do at least that well against me whenever he launches his.

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 1:31:25 AM   
battlevonwar


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Never got to chime in on this topic. France can be pretty strong. Though it sort of has to be for the defense of England/Spain and the Middle East. If I were the Axis and I get France with little losses in June I probably will think where can I do the most damage.

I see the best french defenders exacting around 250-350 casualties in Axis Land. 80-150 or more Air. That's strong!!! Couple opponents have done this to me over the game, tell me does that feel about right to you or excessive?

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 8:06:06 AM   
sillyflower


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I think that such high G losses will be due more to mistakes by the Germans than by allied skill

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 8/3/2020 12:29:16 PM >


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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 10:36:34 AM   
battlevonwar


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Perhaps sillyflower, I am not entirely sure that's the case though. Almeron did this to me but he entirely lost in the East and lost later. Good player I think better than myself... I think once a player has played French Defense enough times they can perfect it and they build a huge in depth French defense that isn't so breakable. With any bad weather turns you are looking at large losses. Sveint also exacted a high total too. I have seen some sneaky Allies


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

I think that such high G losses will be due moor to mistakes by the Germans than by allied skill


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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 12:28:51 PM   
sillyflower


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I think the correct formula is: high G losses require skilled/experienced allies and less skilled/experienced Germans.

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 5:51:36 PM   
baloo7777


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In trying to build at least 2 Panzer Corps, a Mech, a Tac, an Interceptor, and if possible a 2nd Para by Germany to be ready for France in 1940, I fail to see how to upgrade units and repair any losses, PLUS build enough supply trucks for the campaign. And adding enough landing craft to threaten a SeaLion seems like fantasy to me. Yet everyone who is a good player does this easily. I think I still haven't understood the actual production system other than to plan a turn or so ahead how to use PP's (and not how to make the PP's ramp up to a higher per turn production level). I am just playing a PBEM game again after the first few where I didn't do so well. For me the production system is a mystery ( mostly under the hood). This has hurt me in France as I never have enough supply trucks and my Panzers lose efficiency making France a slog, and I guess making France tough against a human opponent (not vs AI).

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 8:08:31 PM   
boldairade

 

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can you explain how an early invasion of USSR(say fall of 40) would make the soviets strong in 41?

how exactly does that work?

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 8:18:33 PM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: boldairade

can you explain how an early invasion of USSR(say fall of 40) would make the soviets strong in 41?

how exactly does that work?


You have all the chances to screw up your invasion. Soviet experience will then grew up much earlier.
This is my interpretation.

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/3/2020 9:31:39 PM   
battlevonwar


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Nah, just just exploit the French and British Air/Land setup perfectly/entrench them and pray for good weather use the rivers. With counterattacks or limited ones = 250 G losses for the Axis or you're not likely doing a very good French Defense if you cannot manage this and 300 or more are possible.

Later in the game this = anemic Axis causing the game to be influenced early and highly influenced by weather which the Dev has manipulated I believe more so to be less cold turns. So no '39 Belgium.

If you would like a sample of a violent French Defense I would gladly show you one I was shown awhile back. If still workable it is scary? I am not sure I remember how to execute it perfectly but if I can whoa it has made players surrender in 1940.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

I think the correct formula is: high G losses require skilled/experienced allies and less skilled/experienced Germans.



< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 8/3/2020 9:34:33 PM >

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/4/2020 1:13:36 PM   
boldairade

 

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Thx man!

very helpful

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/4/2020 2:45:10 PM   
MorningDew

 

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Curious if that violent French Defense works with the changes to North African and Syrian units and new garrison requirements .

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RE: Is France too strong? - 8/4/2020 9:02:09 PM   
battlevonwar


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Sure a little... That will help the Axis or the Axis will have to change the way they build.
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewKurtz

Curious if that violent French Defense works with the changes to North African and Syrian units and new garrison requirements .


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