Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess Page: <<   < prev  8 9 10 11 [12]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 11:46:13 AM   
Dampfnudel

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/27/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I have some ideas that are ripening guys. Lets just say I am thinking in the direction of allowing some "pull" systems to work in tandem with the current systems to make it easier if you do not want to micro-manage.

Give me some time. Should have something to show in at most a week or two or so. (ETA, no promise)


Sounds Great!

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 331
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 1:38:47 PM   
gatsby

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
Please Please do not change the logistics system to accommodate people who don't like or simply can't figure the logistics out. Ive been playing this game almost all day every day since it came out. As my 20 year old son says this is the dream. We have not run into one logistics issue that has not been able to be solved by logic inherent in the system. Its either using the traffic signals, or increasing the amount of supply, or upgrading the roads, or extending with supply depots ....Its always solvable...Lots of games have pull systems...Please Mr. Designer HOLD THE LINE...

My experience with this is that it will just make those people who cant get this more frustrated. They are going to bail anyway. Frankly I was surprised by this thread.This is a marvelous game and one of its strengths is the logistics system...

There are a lot of us who are just playing the game and when we run into a problem don't immediately come here and say I don't like it so it must be broken. Its the culture of course. Petitions to rewrite the ending of Game of Thrones because they wanted another ending. I don't like everybody dying at the end of Hamlet do you think you can change that Mr. Shakespeare? And no I am not comparing GOT to Hamlet or this game.

But I have to say I don't get why folks these days think that just because they want something to happen it should.If you have a better idea go design your own game or if you don't like this push system then go play one of the myriad other games that use a simpler pull system.

Try not to be offended by the tone that you hear when you read this. I am accepting that you have a different opinion than me and I am not attacking any of you personally. I have just noticed this tendency to think that our fantasies of how we think things should be seem to get in the way of how things actually are...

(in reply to diamondspider)
Post #: 332
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 1:53:55 PM   
willgamer


Posts: 902
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline
Also, I'm concerned that fundamental changes to the current system will cause massive turn time increases by mid-game.

The current system is different to some peoples expectations, not broken....

_____________________________

Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 333
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 1:55:48 PM   
Tree Dog


Posts: 129
Joined: 3/27/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

I have some ideas that are ripening guys. Lets just say I am thinking in the direction of allowing some "pull" systems to work in tandem with the current systems to make it easier if you do not want to micro-manage.

Give me some time. Should have something to show in at most a week or two or so. (ETA, no promise)


Yeah sounds great. I'm glad you're open to the idea, and that you think such a rework is still possible now.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 334
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 2:36:13 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gatsby

Please Please do not change the logistics system to accommodate people who don't like or simply can't figure the logistics out. Ive been playing this game almost all day every day since it came out. As my 20 year old son says this is the dream. We have not run into one logistics issue that has not been able to be solved by logic inherent in the system. Its either using the traffic signals, or increasing the amount of supply, or upgrading the roads, or extending with supply depots ....Its always solvable...Lots of games have pull systems...Please Mr. Designer HOLD THE LINE...

My experience with this is that it will just make those people who cant get this more frustrated. They are going to bail anyway. Frankly I was surprised by this thread.This is a marvelous game and one of its strengths is the logistics system...

There are a lot of us who are just playing the game and when we run into a problem don't immediately come here and say I don't like it so it must be broken. Its the culture of course. Petitions to rewrite the ending of Game of Thrones because they wanted another ending. I don't like everybody dying at the end of Hamlet do you think you can change that Mr. Shakespeare? And no I am not comparing GOT to Hamlet or this game.

But I have to say I don't get why folks these days think that just because they want something to happen it should.If you have a better idea go design your own game or if you don't like this push system then go play one of the myriad other games that use a simpler pull system.

Try not to be offended by the tone that you hear when you read this. I am accepting that you have a different opinion than me and I am not attacking any of you personally. I have just noticed this tendency to think that our fantasies of how we think things should be seem to get in the way of how things actually are...


Yes. This gem of a game inspires me to want to protect it too. Of course it's *possible* that a change is an improvement, but as someone who has so often seen the opposite (a change being negative for me personally while others like it but I end up in the minority so very often), please keep it intact.
My solution that I posted in this thread, if feasible, is something I would obviously not mind.

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 335
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 3:58:30 PM   
Nemo84

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer

Also, I'm concerned that fundamental changes to the current system will cause massive turn time increases by mid-game.

The current system is different to some peoples expectations, not broken....


If the private sector building a farm can cause an entire front to fall out of supply, then yes it is broken.

(in reply to willgamer)
Post #: 336
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 4:08:12 PM   
liq3

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/12/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gatsby

Please Please do not change the logistics system to accommodate people who don't like or simply can't figure the logistics out. Ive been playing this game almost all day every day since it came out. As my 20 year old son says this is the dream. We have not run into one logistics issue that has not been able to be solved by logic inherent in the system. Its either using the traffic signals, or increasing the amount of supply, or upgrading the roads, or extending with supply depots ....Its always solvable...Lots of games have pull systems...Please Mr. Designer HOLD THE LINE...

My experience with this is that it will just make those people who cant get this more frustrated. They are going to bail anyway. Frankly I was surprised by this thread.This is a marvelous game and one of its strengths is the logistics system...

There are a lot of us who are just playing the game and when we run into a problem don't immediately come here and say I don't like it so it must be broken. Its the culture of course. Petitions to rewrite the ending of Game of Thrones because they wanted another ending. I don't like everybody dying at the end of Hamlet do you think you can change that Mr. Shakespeare? And no I am not comparing GOT to Hamlet or this game.

But I have to say I don't get why folks these days think that just because they want something to happen it should.If you have a better idea go design your own game or if you don't like this push system then go play one of the myriad other games that use a simpler pull system.

Try not to be offended by the tone that you hear when you read this. I am accepting that you have a different opinion than me and I am not attacking any of you personally. I have just noticed this tendency to think that our fantasies of how we think things should be seem to get in the way of how things actually are...

I'm someone who fully understands the system and I want it changed to reduce micro. I want the mechanics to stay the same (or as close as possible), but having to mess with road signs all the time is tedious at best.

There's no decisions to be made, I'm not deciding where the logistics goes, I'm just trying to make sure the places that need it actually get it, instead of thousands going down empty roads. Making sure a major road has enough logistics when it's extremely predictable isn't gameplay, it's math homework, and I'm here to decide where to send my army or whether to support a cult, not grade 5 homework.

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 337
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 4:53:29 PM   
Hazard151

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/15/2020
Status: offline
Whenever I'm pushing into AI held territory I've got the future logistics screen up so I can adjust where it's going and it doesn't disappear into the AI's maze of dirt roads. Handling it is mostly mindless tedium, with the occasional bit of 'and if I build a road here across this stretch of land I can greatly decrease my logistical overhead.'

(in reply to liq3)
Post #: 338
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 6:33:11 PM   
willgamer


Posts: 902
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84


quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer

Also, I'm concerned that fundamental changes to the current system will cause massive turn time increases by mid-game.

The current system is different to some peoples expectations, not broken....


If the private sector building a farm can cause an entire front to fall out of supply, then yes it is broken.



Yes, you are quite right, that is a problem.

However, it does not rise to the level of "broken" and certainly not to the level of "... a gigantic mess" (this thread's title).

Fixing problems, tweaks to improve LIS are fine; fundamentally redoing it is not.

_____________________________

Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 339
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/18/2020 7:24:28 PM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gatsby

Please Please do not change the logistics system to accommodate people who don't like or simply can't figure the logistics out. Ive been playing this game almost all day every day since it came out. As my 20 year old son says this is the dream. We have not run into one logistics issue that has not been able to be solved by logic inherent in the system. Its either using the traffic signals, or increasing the amount of supply, or upgrading the roads, or extending with supply depots ....Its always solvable...Lots of games have pull systems...Please Mr. Designer HOLD THE LINE...

My experience with this is that it will just make those people who cant get this more frustrated. They are going to bail anyway. Frankly I was surprised by this thread.This is a marvelous game and one of its strengths is the logistics system...

There are a lot of us who are just playing the game and when we run into a problem don't immediately come here and say I don't like it so it must be broken. Its the culture of course. Petitions to rewrite the ending of Game of Thrones because they wanted another ending. I don't like everybody dying at the end of Hamlet do you think you can change that Mr. Shakespeare? And no I am not comparing GOT to Hamlet or this game.

But I have to say I don't get why folks these days think that just because they want something to happen it should.If you have a better idea go design your own game or if you don't like this push system then go play one of the myriad other games that use a simpler pull system.

Try not to be offended by the tone that you hear when you read this. I am accepting that you have a different opinion than me and I am not attacking any of you personally. I have just noticed this tendency to think that our fantasies of how we think things should be seem to get in the way of how things actually are...


Hear hear! Agree 100%. The pull system could be implemented for the independent asset LIS thiefs, though.

(in reply to gatsby)
Post #: 340
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/20/2020 10:48:24 AM   
Dampfnudel

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/27/2019
Status: offline
Maybe it becomes a selectable option to enable the pull-system or the push system, so everybody is happy.
If people enjoy putting traffic signs every turn to prevent all trucks of the entire empire from driving to a newly build farm, they can choose the classic system.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 341
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 6/20/2020 2:48:32 PM   
willgamer


Posts: 902
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel

If people enjoy putting traffic signs every turn to prevent all trucks of the entire empire from driving to a newly build farm, they can choose the classic system.


Yup, I really enjoy hyper-ventilating, hyperbolic, sarcastic criticism of things you don't agree with!


_____________________________

Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 342
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/3/2020 3:29:45 PM   
perde

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/3/2020
Status: offline
e. Whoops. Meant to post in the beta patch thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomn

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13
I've become confused about what the goal of the redesign of the log system is.


I can't speak for Vic, but here's how I'm seeing it:

Prior to the pull system being implemented, the difference between beginner players and advanced players was massive. As in, if you didn't fully understand how the logistics system worked, how to manipulate it, how to diagnose it and how to fix its problems, it was very easy to end up in a situation where your troops are starving despite having enough theoretical logistical capacity to tend to all their needs. Conversely, if you WERE an advanced player, you could make enormous cumulative gains in efficiency at the cost of a great deal of tedium. Not really an ideal situation for everyone - it's nice for differences in skill and knowledge to make a difference in results, but not so much of a difference that those without skill have trouble functioning on a basic level, while exploiting that difference to its fullest potential required a lot of tedious clickwork. Let's not think the former issue is a minor one, either - by far the most common topic in the forums is some variation of "What the heck is wrong with my logistics?"


I'm one of those people who begged for a change, and I can tell you why. It's because I wholeheartedly disagree with the second sentence of the post referenced above:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
The logistic System is a gigantic mess

As a community, we begged for this change. Give the developer at least a few months to work out the kinks before demanding yet another change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dampfnudel
The "concept" of sending logistic points spreading equally in every direction is terrific.


You already mentioned the tedious fiddling required to optimize the logistics. That's all well and true, but that wasn't even my main issue. My problem was that the system was an awkwardly contrived and inherently unrealistic representation of managing logistics.

Not only was the actual gameplay (checking traffic signs every turn or knowingly overbuilding to "brute force" through micromanagement in a game centered around resource management) not fun, but it was made even less fun by the questionable connection to the real-life issue it was supposed to represent. It did not feel at all like managing a fleet of trucks. It felt like opening and closing gates to control the flow of water in a puzzle game.

Imagine a factory and a trucking company/army/entity in charge of logistics interacting in real life. It would probably go a little like this:
Factory: "We need 417 shipments to match our production this month"
Logistics company: "Understood, we will send 417 of our 1000 trucks there"
Great. Everything works out as long as there's available capacity.

Could you imagine the conversation going like this?
Factory: "We need 417 shipments to match our production this month"
Logistics: "Ok, we will send all 1000 trucks out. Then we'll divide 50% of them at the intersection to your factory. This will result in 83 extra trucks, but we like round numbers. Also we must remember to specify to our drivers not to take the dead-end dirt road to the North where they have zero business going, because otherwise half of them will get lost and do nothing all month."

Probably not, right? The old system did not feel like managing a group of truck drivers. A group of people can be told "they need X amount every month, so send X amount every month". A trucking company works on the basis of orders made by the customers in need of shipping, not by sending out trucks randomly in every direction and hoping as many as possible turn up somewhere useful. If a trucking company receives new fleet capacity or a new road is built they don't need to guesstimate new percentages for every road in the country to figure out how many trucks to send to a route they've been doing for 10 years. That's how liquids or electric currents work, not organizations made up of people.

And that was my main gripe with it. It was creating micromanagement out of thin air where no micromanagement should exist. Managing logistics can be an interesting part of the game and I'm glad it's being attempted, but I did not think the concept of "logistics spreading evenly" was terrific. For me it was bad enough to be a deal breaker that made me want to stop playing.

I'm not commenting on the latest beta builds, because they're clearly work in progress. My purpose in writing this was simply to explain why I felt a rework was in dire need. The old system was faulty to its core and a new one was needed, even if that results in an awkward beta phase. This game has potential to be an absolute classic played years from now, so I really don't care if some of the daily builds aren't as polished as the previous system that I hated even when it was "working as intended".

< Message edited by perde -- 8/3/2020 3:43:22 PM >

(in reply to Dampfnudel)
Post #: 343
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/3/2020 4:08:08 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perde
And that was my main gripe with it. It was creating micromanagement out of thin air where no micromanagement should exist. Managing logistics can be an interesting part of the game and I'm glad it's being attempted, but I did not think the concept of "logistics spreading evenly" was terrific. For me it was bad enough to be a deal breaker that made me want to stop playing.


We still need to have SPARE logistics to do upgrades, form a new units & so on - as this stuff is happening during our turn, not past it. This is a core game mechanic and I'm highly doubt that it's reasonable to change it (usually rework of core mechanics is costing too much work-time).

Current system (with pull points) is more or less a fine compromise, all it need is to get some extra polish.

(in reply to perde)
Post #: 344
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/3/2020 4:57:12 PM   
perde

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/3/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare
Current system (with pull points) is more or less a fine compromise, all it need is to get some extra polish.


It's definitely a step in the right direction. My post was meant as a reply to someone in the beta patch thread wondering what the purpose of the redesign was. This thread was referenced and I wrote the reply in the wrong window.

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare
quote:

ORIGINAL: perde
And that was my main gripe with it. It was creating micromanagement out of thin air where no micromanagement should exist. Managing logistics can be an interesting part of the game and I'm glad it's being attempted, but I did not think the concept of "logistics spreading evenly" was terrific. For me it was bad enough to be a deal breaker that made me want to stop playing.


We still need to have SPARE logistics to do upgrades, form a new units & so on - as this stuff is happening during our turn, not past it. This is a core game mechanic and I'm highly doubt that it's reasonable to change it (usually rework of core mechanics is costing too much work-time).


That's why I said "as long as there's available capacity".

The units and assets in the game already know exactly how many logistical points they need. Only instead of the unit or operational command contacting the logistics hub directly the game works in a backwards fashion where you, the Grand Emperor of the nation, have to go down to the truck station and assign each truck a direction to drive in. It's a non-sensical system.

It doesn't reward player skill either, as you can check exactly what each unit needs by clicking on them. The correct answer is already known, and it's just busywork to fiddle with the traffic signs to match the supply and demand. So in-universe the units are able to "radio in" their requirements for logistics, but the rather than contacting the the truck depot who could simply match the requests directly the information is forwarded to the head of the nation.

If you are trying to raise troops or do anything else that requires extra logistics when you have none to spare then there SHOULD be a problem. But again, raising units etc. requires a predetermined amount of logistics points that is known. It's no different to anything else discussed, just another "order" that should be allocated logistics whenever they are available.

The system is needlessly complicated and convoluted without adding anything interesting to the game. Logistics should work based on needs, with the logistical depots trying to match whatever "orders" are coming in from the zone as long as they have the capacity to do so. The old system (I haven't played the latest betas) worked based on supply. All trucks would get sent out every round and you would have to fiddle with inaccurate percentages to try and match the needs as closely as possible. Realism is not the end-all in video games, but when the system in the game is unrealistic AND less logical, less intuitive and less fun than how the issue would be managed in real life then there's a real problem with the game's design.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 345
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/4/2020 5:08:18 AM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perde

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare
Current system (with pull points) is more or less a fine compromise, all it need is to get some extra polish.


It's definitely a step in the right direction. My post was meant as a reply to someone in the beta patch thread wondering what the purpose of the redesign was. This thread was referenced and I wrote the reply in the wrong window.

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare
quote:

ORIGINAL: perde
And that was my main gripe with it. It was creating micromanagement out of thin air where no micromanagement should exist. Managing logistics can be an interesting part of the game and I'm glad it's being attempted, but I did not think the concept of "logistics spreading evenly" was terrific. For me it was bad enough to be a deal breaker that made me want to stop playing.


We still need to have SPARE logistics to do upgrades, form a new units & so on - as this stuff is happening during our turn, not past it. This is a core game mechanic and I'm highly doubt that it's reasonable to change it (usually rework of core mechanics is costing too much work-time).


That's why I said "as long as there's available capacity".

The units and assets in the game already know exactly how many logistical points they need. Only instead of the unit or operational command contacting the logistics hub directly the game works in a backwards fashion where you, the Grand Emperor of the nation, have to go down to the truck station and assign each truck a direction to drive in. It's a non-sensical system.

It doesn't reward player skill either, as you can check exactly what each unit needs by clicking on them. The correct answer is already known, and it's just busywork to fiddle with the traffic signs to match the supply and demand. So in-universe the units are able to "radio in" their requirements for logistics, but the rather than contacting the the truck depot who could simply match the requests directly the information is forwarded to the head of the nation.

If you are trying to raise troops or do anything else that requires extra logistics when you have none to spare then there SHOULD be a problem. But again, raising units etc. requires a predetermined amount of logistics points that is known. It's no different to anything else discussed, just another "order" that should be allocated logistics whenever they are available.

The system is needlessly complicated and convoluted without adding anything interesting to the game. Logistics should work based on needs, with the logistical depots trying to match whatever "orders" are coming in from the zone as long as they have the capacity to do so. The old system (I haven't played the latest betas) worked based on supply. All trucks would get sent out every round and you would have to fiddle with inaccurate percentages to try and match the needs as closely as possible. Realism is not the end-all in video games, but when the system in the game is unrealistic AND less logical, less intuitive and less fun than how the issue would be managed in real life then there's a real problem with the game's design.


There's some lengthy discussion about this before in the thread but IMO the push system is not illogical. It has historically been the responsibility of the high command etc to organize what supply and how it will reach the troops. With military police directing trucks on crossroads and such for example. There is plenty of fact around and links in this thread about it. I enjoy the push system and think there is some misunderstanding around and just pure want to get it automatized and hidden to make the game easier. Vic has said there is going to be a choice between the two in the game that will please both factions.

EDIT: I'll add again that the issue of private assets emerging and stealing half the supply if you are not constantly keeping an eye on your supply network is just silly and needs to be fixed.

< Message edited by Sieppo -- 8/4/2020 5:37:50 AM >

(in reply to perde)
Post #: 346
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/4/2020 3:55:41 PM   
perde

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/3/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

There's some lengthy discussion about this before in the thread but IMO the push system is not illogical. It has historically been the responsibility of the high command etc to organize what supply and how it will reach the troops. With military police directing trucks on crossroads and such for example. There is plenty of fact around and links in this thread about it. I enjoy the push system and think there is some misunderstanding around and just pure want to get it automatized and hidden to make the game easier. Vic has said there is going to be a choice between the two in the game that will please both factions.

EDIT: I'll add again that the issue of private assets emerging and stealing half the supply if you are not constantly keeping an eye on your supply network is just silly and needs to be fixed.


Yes, but not in the manner of trying to get percentages to line up with round numbers, which is the most illogical part of the system.

If micromanaging the logistics worked for example by giving you a list of all requested logistical needs in the zone (information you already have scattered around the UI and something bureaucrats like the ones you appoint in the game would surely be able to piece together) and you assigning them an order based on their priority I would have no issue with the high command taking part in such decision making. That's the type of micromanaging that gives the more careful player an edge if they're willing to look at the finer details. It's also pretty close to how I would imagine such a situation would be approached in real life.

I absolutely don't want to lessen the player's ability to optimize the running of their empire. However I think presenting the issue as a choice between this contrived implementation of the subject and total automation is purposefully misleading. My proposal above would surely cut down on tedious busy work and thus simplify the game experience, but not all challenge results in rewarding gameplay. There are plenty of ways to make a game more difficult without making it more fun, and I feel like the tools the player is given to make decisions affecting the logistics is an example of that.

It's true that military police roadblocks occur in real life, but they are set up to serve a larger plan that has already been outlined. Military commanders don't manage their armies' logistics by ordering specific roadblocks and hoping the numbers line up in the end. That's like an architect nailing bits of wood together and hoping it all results in something resembling a house. The act of setting up individual roadblocks is the physical execution of the plan typically left to subordinates, or in the case of video games automated, just like you don't have to click on each unit to make them fire their rifles after you've ordered them to attack.

(in reply to Sieppo)
Post #: 347
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/5/2020 5:46:22 AM   
Poliorcetes

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
I am definitely in favor of streamlining logistics. Currently this feels like a logic puzzle with some combat mechanics thrown on top. Too many details that don't really make a lot of difference, at least in a way that makes up for the tedium of locating every data site and then cross referencing it to various charts. Add on that big chunks of the game are empty/useless (tariffs, prospecting, taxes) and just become huge card collections to ignore. Feels like they need to prune some of these systems way down as they just overly complicate the game. Focus on the core gameplay, you can always add back in Tariffs and sales tax later.

(in reply to perde)
Post #: 348
RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess - 8/5/2020 6:14:56 AM   
Sieppo


Posts: 933
Joined: 12/15/2012
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perde

It's true that military police roadblocks occur in real life, but they are set up to serve a larger plan that has already been outlined. Military commanders don't manage their armies' logistics by ordering specific roadblocks and hoping the numbers line up in the end. That's like an architect nailing bits of wood together and hoping it all results in something resembling a house. The act of setting up individual roadblocks is the physical execution of the plan typically left to subordinates, or in the case of video games automated, just like you don't have to click on each unit to make them fire their rifles after you've ordered them to attack.


This has naturally also been addressed in the thread. The game is full, I mean absolutely full of micromanagement, that a supreme leader would not do IRL. Like I've said before, it's a game. And that Hitler tried to micromanage and meddle so much, his generals tried to kill him for it. But the supply system is not one that bothers me personally and as said think is a nice addition to other strategy games.

(in reply to perde)
Post #: 349
Page:   <<   < prev  8 9 10 11 [12]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> RE: The logistic System is a gigantic mess Page: <<   < prev  8 9 10 11 [12]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.258