Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

[FIXED] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not too.

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [FIXED] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not too. Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
[FIXED] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not too. - 6/7/2020 5:35:37 PM   
Vulcan607

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 2/8/2018
Status: offline
So here goes on Northern fury I am having problems with certain flights flying at minimum altitude I order them to 36,000 but they keep going back too 300ft. I don't know if this is something I've done as I have gone into the editor in an effort to find out why but no joy.

so if anyone can find out what gods name I've done that would be great!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 7/7/2020 10:39:00 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/9/2020 3:46:49 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2563
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: online
Logged for investigation.

0013926

_____________________________


(in reply to Vulcan607)
Post #: 2
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/10/2020 4:48:28 PM   
Vulcan607

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 2/8/2018
Status: offline
Thanks

(in reply to Rory Noonan)
Post #: 3
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/11/2020 1:22:50 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13076
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Can you tell us which specific flights are doing it - going back to 300 after you set them to 36K?

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Vulcan607)
Post #: 4
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/11/2020 10:47:54 AM   
Vulcan607

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 2/8/2018
Status: offline
Usually fighters and attack aircraft but not all of them

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 5
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/11/2020 11:28:36 AM   
SkyhawkSG1

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 2/2/2020
From: Poland
Status: offline
I had the same issue recently while playing Canary's Cage.
A Harrier flight would drop down to 300ft repeatedly.
It was unassigned from any mission.

_____________________________

Big guns never tire.

(in reply to Vulcan607)
Post #: 6
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/11/2020 12:16:03 PM   
KnightHawk75

 

Posts: 663
Joined: 11/15/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vulcan607

Usually fighters and attack aircraft but not all of them


I looked your file the other night, obviously couldn't tell for most of them if you'd set them certain ways or not but what I noticed was in all cases 'desired altitude field' was 200 or 300, even though your setting in most (not all, some were not set) cases displayed on the right side unit display were manual|high-alt. So for some of them I could tell those were ones you were talking about. Using f2 option you can see the current and desired altitude, and setting them again cleared it, and flipping the setting on the right side unit view gui off manual and back again also reset the unit to what you wanted.

The three or four times I've run across this issue myself I noticed it was after I had auto-evasion enabled on aircraft that were not part of missions and had a manual alt set. Once they got engaged defensive the 'desired alt' didn't change back after no longer being engaged defensive till I manually re-applyed the existing setting again. I had it another time after I engaged offense on a low flying target as well. I wonder if the dozen or so units in your save were recently or at one point engaged offensive or defensive?




< Message edited by KnightHawk75 -- 6/11/2020 12:18:58 PM >

(in reply to Vulcan607)
Post #: 7
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/11/2020 12:18:02 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12604
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
If anyone can provide us with a repeatable step-by-step process for recreating the issue, it would be _hugely_ helpful to us, to nail down the root cause of the problem.

_____________________________


(in reply to KnightHawk75)
Post #: 8
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/13/2020 1:54:16 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12604
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
Can you check if this is still happening in B1147.2 ?

_____________________________


(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 9
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/14/2020 8:06:43 AM   
boogabooga

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 7/18/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

If anyone can provide us with a repeatable step-by-step process for recreating the issue, it would be _hugely_ helpful to us, to nail down the root cause of the problem.



Please see this:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4830006

"Bug 1" was basically an uncommanded descent to 300ft at the IP. It seems to have been fixed in B1147.2

(But NOT "Bug 2")

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 10
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/14/2020 9:00:52 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12604
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
I am specifically referring to the OP issue.

_____________________________


(in reply to boogabooga)
Post #: 11
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/16/2020 9:38:34 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12604
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
Anyone?

_____________________________


(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 12
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/16/2020 5:14:22 PM   
KnightHawk75

 

Posts: 663
Joined: 11/15/2018
Status: offline
quote:

Anyone?

It's not for a lack of trying to induce such a repo, I can say that at least. Have not found the right combo of events yet to produce it on demand so to speak. Still trying with 1146.2, since 1147.x notes mentioned it might actually fix it. Obviously I will post when\if I do.


< Message edited by KnightHawk75 -- 6/16/2020 5:15:00 PM >

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 13
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/17/2020 11:25:38 AM   
KnightHawk75

 

Posts: 663
Joined: 11/15/2018
Status: offline
So this is gonna be long winded but I found the problem and a easy way to repo it under build 1146.2.
I see Dimitris or others devs already found the problem as well though or part of it because 1147.2 does indeed appear to solve the only way I could find to repo it, and I went on a bit of deep dive to do so.

So in short version was\is that it stems from the fact once you touched (or something else touched) a aircraft in the scenario and enabled terrain following mode (even if you checked and unchecked the box while paused), it would never ever really go away, even if you landed and returned to the air etc. Short of deleting the unit you were stuck with it in a way because DesiredAltitude_TerrainFollowing got set during the save serialization process even when Terrain Following was disabled. Even though you would turn it off, and after a little clicking around it would indeed turn off while you played, or appear too it was still there. Also stored in the save were all the values to tell the game not to use TF. However during save the DesiredAltitude_TerrainFollowing entry would get saved, and be set to it's last value that it was at before TF was disabled. I presume it gets serialzied when non-null. That was a problem because on de-serialization (ie loading the save) it would get set again, and for reasons still fuzzy to me during that process the desired altitude would get reset to the desiredAlititude_Terrainfollowing one even if TF was\is disabled.

Now this isn't news to the developers cause that last part of it (using it upon reload even though the other setting say it's off) appears to be fixed in build 1147.2, but the DesiredAltitude_TerrainFollowing getting put into the save even when it's disabled in the first place is still around in 1147.2.


The story behind finding it:
I finally find the save I knew I had somewhere still, a save (originally from b1142), of a early version of Bodo Express where upon load you can see it happening to two groups of aircraft, right as it loads.I know when I saved this file these two groups were chilling on their course and manually set to 36k alt, I also know they didn't give me problems at that time. I happen to be saving this seconds before a posture change happening again that I'd already reset from and I was debugging that at the time, I was quite aware of everything going on with all my units. So I *think it's a snapshot in time from when my aircraft were not having the issue (but were only on re-load), so I think it has to do with 'what got saved'. The groups in question particularly "Flight Shadow50" group (consisting of samhold #5 and samhold #6) I know 100% never had terrain following enabled by me. They took off, I had them fly north-east a bit and then directly east way-point which they still have not finished at the point of the save. They were set to 36k manual and loiter and were left alone as I went on to focus on other things at the time. I recalled all being well at the point of the save and after and it was, till reload later on as I recall and see again now.

Weird so I'm thinking something in the save is triggering an override even though the correct starting values are there.
So I go on an adventure to pick apart the save, well that's not as simple as it used to be. ;) Anyway I eventually find all the settings in the save look good on the group, so on to the aircraft themselves, everything TF related is off, all the altitudes look good, the way-points aren't telling it anything screwy, but I notice the Desired_TerrainFollowing entry has 200ft set. Well that matches the ~2000 ft I keep seeing since they're location is ~1800ft AGL. So clearly this guy is the likely issue. How do units that don't have this problem look by comparison? Sure enough no DesiredAltitude_TerrainFollowing setting even stored. Lets skip ahead.

Anyway now armed with that information the repo is pretty easy (the key is knowing reloading a save is a must in the first place to really see the problem).

Repo:
Loadup any recent build prior to 1147.2.

Step 1: Load up a simple uncluttered scenario where you know there's been some fresh aircraft added to the airbase and not touched yet, launch 2 as a group, put them at manual 36k, let them get there, and save, call it blablabla_before.scen. It can be any scenario really but looking though 300k of xml is easier than 40mb in my case.

Step 2: Reload the file you just saved, let it run a few seconds. No problems will be seen with said aircraft\group.

Step 3: Turn on TF on said pair of aircraft (it doesn't have to be a group btw happens on singles as well) and min altitude or whatever alt you want if you're not over the ocean, wait a few seconds not the movement. Save as blablabla_afterTF.scen

Step 4: Now set everything back to original manual 36k with TF turned off (you can even do it manually to each of them, or ungroup them and do it...doesn't matter), wait a few seconds for them to do the change and get back to 36k. Save, call it blablabla_ResetToNormal.scen

Step 5: Let it play for a few seconds more, note your aircraft are doing fine. Now reload blablabla_ResetToNormal.scen
Your aircraft will act like they did when you saved blablabla_afterTF. You don't even need to hit play just f2 on them to see the desired altitude is wrong.

Optional which avg user can't do: look at resulting xml of each of those 3 saves.

Optional step 6. Loadup build 1147.2 and load up blablabla_ResetToNormal. NOW your aircraft should be ignoring the DesiredAltitude_TerrainFollowing even though it's stored in the save, and your aircraft behave as you would expect.

Now, as wrap up this novel, I still for the life me don't know how TF ever originally got set on some of the aircraft in the real scenarios I was playing, but it could have been an earlier bug fixed months ago but residue lingering in saves, could have been left-over from scene author doing testing and having thought they reset everything to a clean state (and they would be correct in assuming that), or that guy between the keyboard and the chair's memory. In any case I think 1147.2 fixes the core of the issue, which was desired altitude getting set to the DA_TF if it existed upon load. Though it may be worth looking at excluding that entry from serialization entirely when TF is not otherwise activated, but there may be side-effects or considerations to that for which I wouldn't know.

Side note - I noticed <flight>guidhere</flight> seemed to go away for the flight leader when doing save comparisons between 1142, and same file loaded and immediately saved under 1146.2, I assumed that wasn't part of the problem and just churn.

attached: scenes at various states. A good test for confirming 1147.2 fixes the problem is load up the bodo express file, select 'flight shadow50' group in the bottom left, hit f2, if it shows you 36k as desired altitude it's fix confirmation. If you shows you ~1985 like it will under 1147.1 or problem still exists. Only bothered attaching for some samples to have for regression testing in the future. ;)


Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 14
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/25/2020 3:55:52 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12604
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
KnightHawk75 < Very impressive piece of investigation!

Can anyone check if this is still an issue in B1147.4+ ?

_____________________________


(in reply to KnightHawk75)
Post #: 15
RE: [Logged] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not ... - 6/25/2020 9:37:01 PM   
KnightHawk75

 

Posts: 663
Joined: 11/15/2018
Status: offline
To the extent that what I mentioned above was fixed in 1147.2 (and it seemed to be), I can confirm that fix has carried over to 1147.4 in the same test samples used before. Perhaps Vulcan607 can comment if they've seen the issue again since 1147.2+, I haven't personally.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 16
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [FIXED] jets flying at 300ft even when orderd not too. Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.191