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Exchanging Units to Improve them

 
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Exchanging Units to Improve them - 6/7/2020 3:12:44 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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I have noticed in a number of AAR's that people dissolve some of their initial units so they can bring them back as new units. This apparently turns low quality units into higher quality units.

I was wondering if there was any net loss (manpower, production, logistics) for doing this?

I haven't watch the quality of build that carefully over time so I am not sure if new units are always better. But it does seem there ought to be some kind of penalty for doing this. Also, I am pretty sure unit experience will improve over time but it does look like it requires combat while destroy and rebuild doesn't. I am not sure I have seen individual unit's morale improve over time or not. Seems it should go up if the national morale is higher.
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RE: Exchanging Units to Improve them - 6/7/2020 3:23:13 PM   
Flaviusx


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You lose 50% of the production doing this swap, but get all the manpower back, which goes right back into the new unit. You also get all your logistics back but then lose it again assuming you build the same type of unit, so like manpower, this is a 1-1 swap.

I myself do this a lot for the Soviets. Not for anybody else, because it's not very cost effective for anybody else. The Soviets are in the odd position of starting with a particularly terribad military in terms of experience, and switching out a 20% experience unit for a 35% one practically doubles its combat value.

Managing the Red Army is a big trick, maybe the biggest in the game. The other countries are far simpler.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 6/7/2020 3:25:34 PM >


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RE: Exchanging Units to Improve them - 6/7/2020 8:22:26 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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These are choices I give players. In Flaviusx case he is losing slightly on the trade but where he gains is the ability for the Soviets to possible hold ground better. These are the decisions I want players to make in games. Intangibles they have to think about.

I design like this...
Here are your choices. Each has advantages and disadvantages. Which do you think is best?

Games I don't like do this...
Here are your choices. Put them in the correct sequence to maximum their effectiveness.

What I am finding in the games I play is that everyone has a different style. Which I find really neat. One opponent has this philosophy when playing the Germans.

Losses doesn't matter. Resting.... doesn't matter. All that matters is advancement and annoying you where you aren't looking.

Which has made for a very interesting game.

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RE: Exchanging Units to Improve them - 6/11/2020 4:58:15 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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Don't the low quality units slowly increase in experience with time?
Or, is it only if they manage to survive combat that their experience goes up?

Seems like even with out combat existing troops ought to be able to slowly train up to a better level than raw troops just being organized.

Also, what drives the experience level for new troops?
Is there a way to know what experience level a new build will be other than make notes as you play the game for future use?

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RE: Exchanging Units to Improve them - 6/11/2020 5:44:46 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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All units build experience through combat. The lower the experience the greater the gain.
All combat increases the default experience of new troops up to 50%.

The Soviets are the unique case in WW2. They started with European style corps and stripped away all their experienced officers with the purge. Their army SUCKED in 1941. Their generals were fearful. If they even thought about not following orders they would be shot. I forgot who during an offensive had 2 choices to make which put him in a screwed or screwed category. The standing orders were terrible and poor performance would have gotten him shot. If he went against standing orders, which is what his experience taught him in this situation, he would be shot for disobeying orders. So he had to disobey orders and be highly successful to have a good chance of not being shot. This was the Soviet army in 1941.

So I try to replicate the crappy conditions of the troops + the bad leadership. It is very difficult as we all have hindsight.

But even those crappy units do gain in experience. It's an abstract decision players must make. Which I think it the best kind of decision making in games. Not a min-max type where you order things in mathematical order like a puzzle.

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Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

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