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RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!)

 
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RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 3:31:20 PM   
Vic


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Bump.

Fixed some scripting calculations glitches caused with speeding them up in v1.05 (mostly related to some Stratagems giving weird 0 results)

And I think i might very well have fixed the long standing history-orange units bug as well as the 8-9-keys Guard-bug.

best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 91
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 3:39:52 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

And I think i might very well have fixed the long standing history-orange units bug as well as the 8-9-keys Guard-bug.


Never say that you asume a bug fixed. You know they feel challenged by that.

They might even give a variant of the "he tasks me" speech. Not sure, I do not speak computer bug.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 92
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 3:45:12 PM   
GodwinW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Bump.

Fixed some scripting calculations glitches caused with speeding them up in v1.05 (mostly related to some Stratagems giving weird 0 results)

And I think i might very well have fixed the long standing history-orange units bug as well as the 8-9-keys Guard-bug.

best wishes,
Vic


Nice!!

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 93
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 3:49:00 PM   
Vic


Posts: 6816
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

And I think i might very well have fixed the long standing history-orange units bug as well as the 8-9-keys Guard-bug.


Never say that you asume a bug fixed. You know they feel challenged by that.

They might even give a variant of the "he tasks me" speech. Not sure, I do not speak computer bug.


Well... i said before that i fixed, when i didnt so :) well better not to claim full victory immediately...

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(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 94
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 4:00:47 PM   
Soar_Slitherine

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon
I would actually say that the "annexation" card is currently underpowered, because who would ever want to play that when there's a risk of losing everything you worked for diplomatically and dropping right down to a war status?

Does it still hit you with the usual penalties for declaring war? If yes, I agree. If not, failing is not as big of a penalty, since you'll get the zone anyway in the end if you planned things properly, whereas if Unification fails you just wasted PP for no effect.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 95
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 4:03:04 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic


quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

And I think i might very well have fixed the long standing history-orange units bug as well as the 8-9-keys Guard-bug.


Never say that you asume a bug fixed. You know they feel challenged by that.

They might even give a variant of the "he tasks me" speech. Not sure, I do not speak computer bug.


Well... i said before that i fixed, when i didnt so :) well better not to claim full victory immediately...

I think "I hope I fixed it for now" is the highest level of confidence that will not wake those sleeping dogs.

I can not remember if that was actually in Murphys Computer laws, but I think it definetly should be.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 96
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 4:36:59 PM   
Destragon

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine
Does it still hit you with the usual penalties for declaring war? If yes, I agree. If not, failing is not as big of a penalty, since you'll get the zone anyway in the end if you planned things properly, whereas if Unification fails you just wasted PP for no effect.


I just tried it, looks like it doesn't actually work in beta 5. I failed the annexation roll and it told me that there would be war, but no war was actually declared. The relation was still the same and I was even still the protector of the regime.

I guess it's true that you could play annexation with the intention to fail it, so that you get a war on a regime while bypassing the negative happiness effect, but I dunno. You still need to first make them a protectorate and get the foreign affairs council. If you don't mind conquering them with force, then I guess you might as well just declare war in the first place.

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)
Post #: 97
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 5:02:15 PM   
ydmatrix2

 

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For the open beta branch, I'd be happy to have an auto-save *at the start* of a turn - it will be easier to check/reproduce/report some issues. Otherwise it requires to start from the end of the previous turn (and I don't know how deterministic the end-turn results are).

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 98
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 5:07:18 PM   
KingHalford

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: KingHalford
Here's my reasoning: this is a wargame, and if taking Minors at the start is a matter of just saving a couple of turns of PP and playing a card, then you're essentially removing any incentive to engage in the game's strongest feature: combat.

It's not quite as easy as you put it. First, you're gonna need a foreign affairs council. You need a good diplomat or some shadow diplomat stratagems. You need to make the regime a protectorate, then a vassal to reduce difficulty. Hopefully with critical successes to improve your relation with them. If you fail those and reduce your relation, you're gonna make the unification harder, and I think you can't really increase your relation with them, unless you have that one political faction that gifits you relation boosting stratagems. It also depends a lot on the tradition value from the minor, which as far as I can tell, can be a +200 modifier for the difficulty at max tradition.

When you do succeed though, you're immediately getting access to their city with ecstatic population happiness and all their militia units, which both are really powerful effects.

I would actually say that the "annexation" card is currently underpowered, because who would ever want to play that when there's a risk of losing everything you worked for diplomatically and dropping right down to a war status?

It doesn't really make sense for unification to have -50 difficulty, when it has no negative downside for failing it. The -50 difficulty should maybe be moved over to annexation.

I'm okay with increasing PP costs, since the game feels like it needs more PP drains in general.

There's currently no effect for critical successes/failures with these cards. The annexation war declaration should probably be moved to critical failure since a normal failure could be seen as the minor faction challenging your threat and it still being your choice if you really want to declare war or not. Normal failure should still be a big drop in relation between you and them though.
Maybe the ecstatic population happiness after unifying should be an effect of a critical unification success. Normal unification success should be 50% happiness or something like that.

quote:


although I do wonder if just one of them might do since they're both very similar?

The game is parts roleplaying game, so having two different options for unification/annexation, one for intimidating with threats and the other for being diplomatic, is good I think.
The cards could be made more different from each other for sure though.

quote:

One of the guys on our discord has already shown us how he's easily taken large amounts of territory and thinks it's overpowered.

That was me. It's very powerful and it does need some tweaking, but I don't share the worry of it potentially being game ruining.


This all sounds very reasonable, I entirely agree. Thanks for clarifying that D.

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(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 99
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 5:09:20 PM   
KingHalford

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ramnblam


quote:

ORIGINAL: KingHalford


quote:

ORIGINAL: ramnblam

I think it will take a little bit of balancing to achieve the desired result. You want players to be experience a spectrum of potential minor/major regime relations, from the friendliest cuddly bears to the most obnoxious aggressive warmonger, the stratagems should be there to give the player a way to influence and maneuver politically without being a binary "OH positive relations play the x card". The character skill rolls already come into play here which is good but I think being able to not cheese any one area of the game to make the rest trivial is really important.


My worry here is that if you get a very strong diplomat then 30 PP is rather trivial to obtain, especially if you play for this strategy from the start. I like the cards (although I do wonder if just one of them might do since they're both very similar?) I can just see the potential for abuse, particularly in multiplayer.


Mate I'm not trying to be an arsehole, but my comment was explicitly I want options available to the player in regards to the RNG they come up against but it shouldn't be something that is potentially reliably or practicably cheesed. Sorry if If I've misread you.


I didn't think you were being man :)


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(in reply to ramnblam)
Post #: 100
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 6:14:30 PM   
Malevolence


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For the record, I've mildly suggested that Political Points balance should not roll over each turn and that unused stratagem cards should be discarded as well. The purpose would be to stress a defined period of opportunity and a limit on cached political power. Both these elements have a time component not stressed.

I don't suggested those changes to make the game harder or easier, but because I think it fits the intent of the resources given my experiences with game.


< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/18/2020 6:16:27 PM >


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Post #: 101
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 8:29:46 PM   
olin0111

 

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With beta .06 fuel efficency optimization doesn't work for new models. I had a model of a walker in the works before applying the patch and after it was done the walker was showing 15.6 fuel consumption. My previous walker had 0.3 :/

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 102
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 9:38:05 PM   
Twotribes


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V6 gives a warning when I download it that it is possibly a virus or will change system. I had to load it from the downlaod window it wouldn't go to my system the usual way.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 103
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 10:07:39 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ydmatrix2

For the open beta branch, I'd be happy to have an auto-save *at the start* of a turn - it will be easier to check/reproduce/report some issues. Otherwise it requires to start from the end of the previous turn (and I don't know how deterministic the end-turn results are).

I am honestly still a bit confused why this is on default with Strategy games. At least for me it seems a "Start of Turn" save makes a lot more sense. Because, we can still do stuff at the start of the turn.

(in reply to ydmatrix2)
Post #: 104
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 10:08:47 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

V6 gives a warning when I download it that it is possibly a virus or will change system. I had to load it from the downlaod window it wouldn't go to my system the usual way.

Correct way of saying it:
Your Virus scanner gives you a warning for this file.
Someone had similar issues with beta 4 or 5.

If it is only one Virus scanner that does that, asume a false-positive. Propably some overly agressive heuristic got tripped.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 6/18/2020 10:09:46 PM >

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 105
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/18/2020 10:15:19 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 212
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

For the record, I've mildly suggested that Political Points balance should not roll over each turn and that unused stratagem cards should be discarded as well. The purpose would be to stress a defined period of opportunity and a limit on cached political power. Both these elements have a time component not stressed.

I don't suggested those changes to make the game harder or easier, but because I think it fits the intent of the resources given my experiences with game.


Yeah, I agree with that. Would probably be worth making a thread about this on the suggestions forum.
That is the one weird thing about the stratagem system, how you can stockpile these cards. It does kinda go against the theme of them being opportunities and you end up with more of them than you need. I was thinking of suggesting some system where you could sell your unneeded stratagems or something, but just having the cards expire after a couple of turns would also work.
And yeah, having some sort of soft cap on PP or not having them fully roll over to the next turn could also be nice to act against stockpiling and to incentivise actually spending them.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 106
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta6 (last update 18 june!) - 6/18/2020 10:51:44 PM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 6/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

V6 gives a warning when I download it that it is possibly a virus or will change system. I had to load it from the downlaod window it wouldn't go to my system the usual way.

Correct way of saying it:
Your Virus scanner gives you a warning for this file.
Someone had similar issues with beta 4 or 5.

If it is only one Virus scanner that does that, asume a false-positive. Propably some overly agressive heuristic got tripped.


I had an issue with an earlier version.
I could not download on my 'win 7' which uses, only, Microsoft Essentials.
I had to download via my 'win 10' to use that version on my 'win' 7.
Since then, no issues at all.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 107
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/19/2020 2:13:09 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1573
Joined: 4/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: ydmatrix2

For the open beta branch, I'd be happy to have an auto-save *at the start* of a turn - it will be easier to check/reproduce/report some issues. Otherwise it requires to start from the end of the previous turn (and I don't know how deterministic the end-turn results are).

I am honestly still a bit confused why this is on default with Strategy games. At least for me it seems a "Start of Turn" save makes a lot more sense. Because, we can still do stuff at the start of the turn.


Because the game is more likely to CTD during the automated phases. You want a save to record all your decisions before you run the functions and it starts thrashing the data associated with all your actions. Your decisions and the associated data should be immutable, but you will appreciate the safety net nonetheless.

If you savescum, it also provides the ability to go back--if you realize you missed something important and the AI took advantage of you. That's very much like other games where you hit a save point before a boss fight.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/19/2020 2:18:20 AM >


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(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 108
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/19/2020 3:26:43 AM   
aperfecturkel

 

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Agreed, I appreciate the end of turn save.

< Message edited by aperfecturkel -- 6/19/2020 3:27:07 AM >

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 109
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/19/2020 9:59:38 AM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: ydmatrix2

For the open beta branch, I'd be happy to have an auto-save *at the start* of a turn - it will be easier to check/reproduce/report some issues. Otherwise it requires to start from the end of the previous turn (and I don't know how deterministic the end-turn results are).

I am honestly still a bit confused why this is on default with Strategy games. At least for me it seems a "Start of Turn" save makes a lot more sense. Because, we can still do stuff at the start of the turn.


Because the game is more likely to CTD during the automated phases. You want a save to record all your decisions before you run the functions and it starts thrashing the data associated with all your actions. Your decisions and the associated data should be immutable, but you will appreciate the safety net nonetheless.

If you savescum, it also provides the ability to go back--if you realize you missed something important and the AI took advantage of you. That's very much like other games where you hit a save point before a boss fight.

"Because the game is more likely to CTD during the automated phases." That is a reason for exactly 1 end of turn save.

"If you savescum, it also provides the ability to go back" again, that is only a good reason for 1 end of turn save.
Indeed, if I want to savescum I:
- have to load the last end of turn
- go through the entire automatic processing again
- might get a different endstate, because that is how the RNG rolls (both combat and AI decisions).

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 110
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/19/2020 1:21:55 PM   
ydmatrix2

 

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I do like the end-of-turn save for the gameplay in general.

For the beta-branch, I'd also like (an option for?) a start of turn save.

My reasoning - for example, there an uncommon but consistent issue where making a decision on an event doesn't show the outcome popup (although the effects do take place). After it happens - I have nothing to show to report it, and I'm not going back to end of last turn for the hope of getting the same decision with the reproducible problem again.
It would be very easy to reproduce with a start-of-turn save, but I'm not going to save each start of turn manually for the hopes of catching that one time - trying to play a game after all...

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 111
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta5 (last update 17 june!) - 6/19/2020 2:10:34 PM   
zgrssd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ydmatrix2

I do like the end-of-turn save for the gameplay in general.

For the beta-branch, I'd also like (an option for?) a start of turn save.

My reasoning - for example, there an uncommon but consistent issue where making a decision on an event doesn't show the outcome popup (although the effects do take place). After it happens - I have nothing to show to report it, and I'm not going back to end of last turn for the hope of getting the same decision with the reproducible problem again.
It would be very easy to reproduce with a start-of-turn save, but I'm not going to save each start of turn manually for the hopes of catching that one time - trying to play a game after all...

The end of turn autosaves are also an option. Just one that is auto-togelled.
Start turn would just be another option. However one that must be toggleable before loading the game. After all, it could break as well...

One thing I have been wondering about regarding end turn saves:
Could we speed them up, the same way Word Processors do document saving? My understand is that they are doing 90% of the save work in the background, as changes are made, into a temproary file. When the need to recover work after a crash, that file is used for it. And when the user finally decides to fully save, that is when the remaining 10% work happens.
It might be too much work for a game and thus far the "end of turn" saves are not that slow anyway. Just one of those idle thoughts that keeps bumping around in my brain.

(in reply to ydmatrix2)
Post #: 112
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 2:18:28 PM   
Vic


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Number of minor fixes. And an musical surprise :)

Please give it a spin.

Hoping to make this one the next official v1.04.

best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 113
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 2:59:34 PM   
Splatsch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Number of minor fixes. And an musical surprise :)

Please give it a spin.

Hoping to make this one the next official v1.04.

best wishes,
Vic

Thanks a lot for all the update ! The game is really awesome, and your support to the game too !!

I just applied this last version, but unfortunately I seem to have an issue with Happiness variable name (see screenshot).

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 114
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 3:50:08 PM   
Vic


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Sorry there. Fixed in v1.03-beta7b :)

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Post #: 115
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 4:21:04 PM   
Cornuthaum

 

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quote:

-You can no longer build HS Rail Station and Rail Station in the same Hex *


I'm sorry, what? Am I supposed to cripple my entire, already-existing railway logistics infrastructure for 12 turns (because that's how long it takes for an asset to be removed jfc), only to then have to wait for at least another 2 turns before I can build and start using HS rail stations?

HS rail is already a pretty late-game tech on the opposite path of the tech tree from the most important economic ones (robotization) and all preceding techs to HS rail are useless on a lot of planets and as such very low priority in the first place. It does not come early enough for there not to already be a regular rail network. If there was a conversion project (replacing an existing Rail station with a similarly-levelled HS rail station) this wouldn't be quite so bad.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 116
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 4:21:46 PM   
Nico165b165


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Sorry there. Fixed in v1.03-beta7b :)


Ha, those pesky "replace all" in the code

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Post #: 117
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 5:51:57 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 212
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Small bug with taking over a minor regime using unification:
Directly after taking them over, you can't seem to tell their units to walk into non-alligned territory for some reason.
Once you've told them to move once inside their own territory, then you can also tell them to move into the non-alligned one.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Destragon -- 6/19/2020 5:52:34 PM >

(in reply to Nico165b165)
Post #: 118
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 6:29:22 PM   
Destragon

 

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I just noticed a bit of a problem about taking over minor regimes diplomatically.
They don't have transport hubs.
That means, if you don't already have a good logistical connection to that territory, you need to immediately run the military units of the ex-minor regime towards your main territory, or they will starve. And because building construction also needs logistical points, you can't build a truck station there until you extended your main logistical network towards it.

I took over some religious fanatic regime diplomatically that was a little farther away from my actual territory. I thought I'm just gonna get a second SHQ in that city, so that the military units can get supplied by the city's dome farm, but then I noticed there was no transport hub in the city, so the SHQ ended up being pointless.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 119
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.03-beta7 (last update 19 june!) - 6/19/2020 7:59:58 PM   
IamMax

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum

quote:

-You can no longer build HS Rail Station and Rail Station in the same Hex *


I'm sorry, what? Am I supposed to cripple my entire, already-existing railway logistics infrastructure for 12 turns (because that's how long it takes for an asset to be removed jfc), only to then have to wait for at least another 2 turns before I can build and start using HS rail stations?

HS rail is already a pretty late-game tech on the opposite path of the tech tree from the most important economic ones (robotization) and all preceding techs to HS rail are useless on a lot of planets and as such very low priority in the first place. It does not come early enough for there not to already be a regular rail network. If there was a conversion project (replacing an existing Rail station with a similarly-levelled HS rail station) this wouldn't be quite so bad.


^Yep, this. This does not seem like a good change.

e: additionally. I've only taken the one game late enough to play around with rail & high-speed rail, but I found there were multiple times when upgrading a given city's HS rail was prohibitively expensive and the regular rail stations were a useful bandaid until I could afford the 50 high-tech parts per turn it'd take to get to the next level of HS rail. In the case of my capital, it was even necessary to have a significantly upgraded regular rail station alongside the HS rail station, because the logistical demands of the empire were pretty intense.

Perhaps the intent is that the creation of additional SHQs becomes mandatory at a certain point?

< Message edited by IamMax -- 6/19/2020 8:11:13 PM >

(in reply to Cornuthaum)
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