Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: Leslac, Allafterme, Kernel_Peace
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Shadow Empire MATRIX VERSION Open Beta >> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/19/2020 10:45:21 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
Also added Agricultural Crops details report :)


And this is really GREAT addition, thank you! Personally I never ever tried xeno-farms because of lacking knowledge about xeno-plants temperature tolerance. As for me it's to risky to rely on them when their output maybe permanently reduced because of temp.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 391
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/19/2020 11:50:39 AM   
Leslac

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/4/2020
Status: online
Honestly the AI still needs A LOT of work. Currently it seems unable to establish a proper frontline, but breaks up it's units into little islands that are easy to constantly surround and destroy.

I know it's a general problem with all strategy games.

It seems like the AI doesn't know what entrenchment is, constantly moving it's troops willy nilly. One of the most important things, especially early game, is establishing defensive lines and staying in them for the entrenchment bonus. I'd like to see an early game major plant it's units in a line and stay there, while the recon units try to figure out the best place to open a breach. Preferably behind rivers and in easily defensible terrain.

This especially in a pre-war situation. If I move units up to the AI's borders - a lot of them - it seems like there's a diplomacy trigger that starts, giving me warnings about the major believing we want a war, etc. But the ai doesn't counter with actual units of it's own, which would be logical. And they don't defend their lines of supply - which is in part created by the free road system they get, something I believe should be removed asap so you can begin working on an actual working defensive/offensive way of acting for the AI.

As it is, the game's difficulty comes more from the challenges of logistics and getting enough troops early on, than actually fighting wars.

(speaking from an early-middle game perspective, I've yet to play a game to the late-game major conflicts)

< Message edited by Leslac -- 7/19/2020 11:53:18 AM >

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 392
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta8 (last update 15th july!) - 7/19/2020 11:55:59 AM   
Leslac

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/4/2020
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

Question. Will there be a basic primer on how the new logistics system works when it goes final? I finally broke down and started playing a game with the betas. I don't fully know what is going on because I honestly play without getting too deep into all the numbers behind the log system. I try to use mainly the bottleneck overlay and then after any adjustments the preview points overlay to manage logistics, mainly just by eyeballing those overlays and the supply status of units instead of counting lug nuts on trucks. I've found that the new system seems for me at least to be easier to use with less management than the 1.04 sytem, but it is still complex and requires management. In other words, pretty good. In playing a full game through turn 86 now I've found I'm making more use of building more truck stops and less use of roadblocks to keep things moving, and I have a widespread log network in this game much more complicated than in the two full games I played before trying the beta. In those games I usually had just one operation going at a time. In this game I have one major operation going but four minor operations going at the same time on a Medusa planet fighting alien life forms as well as minor and major powers. In my previous two games I was on a Siwa planet. I'm able to keep all these operations going, though I am having to actively manage to keep supply going to my units. And I enjoy actively managing, but I don't want to go too deep into counting lug nuts. But I still don't fully grasp the changes with the beta supply system and am wondering if someone has written or is going to write a new supply system for dummies tutorial for people like me to are not going to go deep into the numbers and count lug nuts. To the lug nut counters, thanks for all the hard work.


Yeah, the manual should be updated.


Before the system was a "push" only - i.e. supplies start at the point of the truck stop and get pushed a certain distance out. Only way to control it was where you placed roads, supply stations and traffic lights.


The current version has included a "pull" system to all your military forces and structures. So they automatically ask for and get what they need (if the push system is able to send supplies there).


All in all it makes the logistics system a great deal easier and doesn't demand so much micromanaging of traffic lights.

(in reply to jwarrenw13)
Post #: 393
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta8 (last update 15th july!) - 7/19/2020 2:03:19 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
-In order to get the Logistics system more comprehensible I added a rule change. Once a runner from one logistical Assets encounters another logistical Asset it stops there. This is the only sane way to avoid the big majority (almost total) of the problem cases where a runner from a far away Asset would remove Pull Points that would cause a more nearby Asset to not use them. Furthermore it makes the network more comprehensible as there is less runners per hex in large networks now. * (requires new game start with beta9 for not to disrupt older games in progress)

Sounds interesting, but I have a lot of questions. I think this is gonna need a lot of testing.
What counts as "logistical asset" for this? Are truck and rail logistics separate? Will railway logistics be stopped, because they hit a supply base? What if truck logistics hit a railway station? Can railway logistics not path through a railhead anymore?
Can't the player just avoid this new rule by putting little bypass roads around their logistical assets, so that the logistic runners from other stations can just drive around the new station?

Edit:
Okay, I can answer one question right away, truck logistics and rail logistics are apparently separate for these stops. The logistics log will say something like "Truck points end with meeting other truck logistics asset".

Looks like railheads also don't end train logistics, which is nice. But it looks like railheads don't produce any train points anymore? The asset info still says they produce 5 train points, but I don't see the logistics log mention that.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 7/19/2020 5:29:39 PM >

(in reply to Leslac)
Post #: 394
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta8 (last update 15th july!) - 7/19/2020 2:30:17 PM   
nadia911


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline
Can't download, site down

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 395
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta8 (last update 15th july!) - 7/19/2020 8:08:49 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
It worked fine for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
-Added an Alien Crops details report in the Help Subtab of the Reps Tab detailing its temperature tolerances. *

Speaking of planetary details reports, can you maybe make those auxiliary biosphere information screens where you can see total life biomass and the evolution history accessible during the game, too? As far as I can tell, they can only be read during planet generation and are a bit hidden there.

Great work with these updates in general, by the way.

(in reply to nadia911)
Post #: 396
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 7/19/2020 10:45:38 PM   
GodwinW


Posts: 511
Joined: 6/5/2020
Status: offline
quote:

-In order to get the Logistics system more comprehensible I added a rule change. Once a runner from one logistical Assets encounters another logistical Asset it stops there. This is the only sane way to avoid the big majority (almost total) of the problem cases where a runner from a far away Asset would remove Pull Points that would cause a more nearby Asset to not use them. Furthermore it makes the network more comprehensible as there is less runners per hex in large networks now. * (requires new game start with beta9 for not to disrupt older games in progress)


No! I am very much against that. I play without Pull Points. Having this work like it does is GREAT. It means you get overlap. It's purely beneficial. It's also NOT hard to figure out (not using pull system), and removing it is like a really arbitrary rule (not grounded in the game's reality) that dumbs down the game.

I really wish you hadn't done this and now I really wish you can make it affect only the pull system if it apparently causes some issue there.

Thank you for your consideration.

(in reply to aperfecturkel)
Post #: 397
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 7/19/2020 11:33:06 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
The thing is, you can just have your supply road go past your logistics station, like this, instead of having it go straight through it.
Adds 1 to the branching count, but that's probably worth it over losing the logistics runner. Add an "only pull points allowed" traffic sign heading into the city for extra efficiency.


< Message edited by Destragon -- 7/19/2020 11:35:16 PM >

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 398
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 7/20/2020 6:45:22 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

No! I am very much against that. I play without Pull Points. Having this work like it does is GREAT. It means you get overlap. It's purely beneficial.


And it's making capital supply radius completely insane once you get enough supply deports & sealed road everywhere.

No, rails should be used for long-range support not trucks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon
The thing is, you can just have your supply road go past your logistics station, like this, instead of having it go straight through it.
Adds 1 to the branching count, but that's probably worth it over losing the logistics runner. Add an "only pull points allowed" traffic sign heading into the city for extra efficiency.

To maximize efficiency in many cases you will need to separate rails from road - let's railroad enter this city to avoid branching for train as it's stupid to build railway station in every city and most of them will have railstop only.

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 399
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 8:53:28 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

-In order to get the Logistics system more comprehensible I added a rule change. Once a runner from one logistical Assets encounters another logistical Asset it stops there. This is the only sane way to avoid the big majority (almost total) of the problem cases where a runner from a far away Asset would remove Pull Points that would cause a more nearby Asset to not use them. Furthermore it makes the network more comprehensible as there is less runners per hex in large networks now. *



After some testing there is seems a minor issue with it - you'd killed Supply Bases lvl 2 and 3. Previously I could use them to boost my capital truck station range via placing them in "free" zone of nearby cities (as placing them optimally in a 10-11 hex distance between truck stations is bestow too high administrative strain even for developed level 3-4 cities). Now... They're seems to be completely useless.

My suggestion - either make them administrative strain free or merge lvl2-3 into a single level 1 supply base.

P.S. Also there is a tiny bug - supply base description don't show it output:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 400
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 11:40:08 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
Supply base levels continue to support supply routes that are not shortest path between truck stations. For example, following junctions prior to truck station.

_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 401
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 11:56:48 AM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Supply base levels continue to support supply routes that are not shortest path between truck stations. For example, following junctions prior to truck station.


I know how they're used. I just no longer see real use for upgraded (!) level 2-3 supply bases. Basic level 1 is still well-used of course.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 402
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 7/20/2020 12:32:10 PM   
Vhalor


Posts: 80
Joined: 6/11/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GodwinW

quote:

-In order to get the Logistics system more comprehensible I added a rule change. Once a runner from one logistical Assets encounters another logistical Asset it stops there. This is the only sane way to avoid the big majority (almost total) of the problem cases where a runner from a far away Asset would remove Pull Points that would cause a more nearby Asset to not use them. Furthermore it makes the network more comprehensible as there is less runners per hex in large networks now. * (requires new game start with beta9 for not to disrupt older games in progress)


No! I am very much against that. I play without Pull Points. Having this work like it does is GREAT. It means you get overlap. It's purely beneficial. It's also NOT hard to figure out (not using pull system), and removing it is like a really arbitrary rule (not grounded in the game's reality) that dumbs down the game.

I really wish you hadn't done this and now I really wish you can make it affect only the pull system if it apparently causes some issue there.

Thank you for your consideration.


I have to agree. That change seems rather horrible indeed. Don't like the idea of silly bypasses and nonsensical road structures to bypass other logistical assets. Also sounds like it will make the entire logistical system rather messy and more incomprehensible to be honest.

_____________________________

"Pull and obtain wisdom. Push and invite ruin." ― Cult of LIS

(in reply to GodwinW)
Post #: 403
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 1:09:05 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Supply base levels continue to support supply routes that are not shortest path between truck stations. For example, following junctions prior to truck station.


I know how they're used. I just no longer see real use for upgraded (!) level 2-3 supply bases. Basic level 1 is still well-used of course.


Then you understand, ostensibly, a Supply Base III should create a perfectly efficient supply route between two Truck Station I's at 20 hexes distant. That has not changed.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 404
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 2:00:38 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Then you understand, ostensibly, a Supply Base III should create a perfectly efficient supply route between two Truck Station I's at 20 hexes distant. That has not changed.


And generate ~20-30% admin strain for one zone. Previously it may worth it sometimes as same supply base will boost several truck stations LP point (including so precious LP from SHQ). Now such base will boost basically only 2 truck stations, a bit more with tons of planning & suitable placement.

Previously Supply Base III boosted whole branch of logistic system, now only nearby stations.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 405
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 2:11:57 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

And generate ~20-30% admin strain for one zone.


Could you elaborate? How does a supply base 10 hexes from a city create 20-30% admin strain?

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

Previously Supply Base III boosted whole branch of logistic system, now only nearby stations.


It still does, via branching routes as stated above.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/20/2020 2:13:00 PM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 406
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.02-beta1 (last update 9 june!) - 7/20/2020 2:39:52 PM   
willgamer


Posts: 835
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

Also sounds like it will make the entire logistical system rather messy and more incomprehensible to be honest.


I'm getting on in years so I may be the canary in the coal mine for this... yes, LIS is now totally incomprehensible to me.

I was concerned about the presumed ease of adding a pull system to the original LIS push; those fears have come home to roost. Just look at the increased complexity of the traffic management screen alone!

Good on y'all that are still managing this well as we descend into logistics darkness. Perhaps you will write a guide at primary school level for the rest of us someday.



_____________________________

Rex Lex or Lex Rex?

(in reply to Vhalor)
Post #: 407
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 2:41:01 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Could you elaborate? How does a supply base 10 hexes from a city create 20-30% admin strain?


This is my practical experience from one of games. Two lvl2 supply bases at optimal distance (10 or 11 hexs) resulted with ~24% admin strain in capital that was slowly going down overtime. It was in previous beta so maybe now penalty is more adequate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
It still does, via branching routes as stated above.

Branching routes are a big trap because of branching penalty. As for me I'm highly doubt it worth for any prolonged route.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 408
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 3:33:45 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

After some testing there is seems a minor issue with it - you'd killed Supply Bases lvl 2 and 3. Previously I could use them to boost my capital truck station range via placing them in "free" zone of nearby cities (as placing them optimally in a 10-11 hex distance between truck stations is bestow too high administrative strain even for developed level 3-4 cities). Now... They're seems to be completely useless.

My suggestion - either make them administrative strain free or merge lvl2-3 into a single level 1 supply base.

I don't get it. What's stopping you from just put the supply base nearby another city, so that there is no administrative strain?
Just have your road go adjacent to your truck stations, not through them, like I posted a picture of above.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 409
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 4:26:18 PM   
ramnblam

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 6/9/2020
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon


quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

After some testing there is seems a minor issue with it - you'd killed Supply Bases lvl 2 and 3. Previously I could use them to boost my capital truck station range via placing them in "free" zone of nearby cities (as placing them optimally in a 10-11 hex distance between truck stations is bestow too high administrative strain even for developed level 3-4 cities). Now... They're seems to be completely useless.

My suggestion - either make them administrative strain free or merge lvl2-3 into a single level 1 supply base.

I don't get it. What's stopping you from just put the supply base nearby another city, so that there is no administrative strain?
Just have your road go adjacent to your truck stations, not through them, like I posted a picture of above.


Bro don't listen to demi, he doesn't even want to feed his people :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 410
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 5:11:11 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Destragon

I don't get it. What's stopping you from just put the supply base nearby another city, so that there is no administrative strain?
Just have your road go adjacent to your truck stations, not through them, like I posted a picture of above.


Your idea is +1 branching point per each city. Okay if there is one city, questionable if there is two cities, no-way-ever if more.
Your idea is attempt to abuse game and ignore new logistics rule added by Vic. I don't want to avoid it, I want to play with it instead. Is that hard to understand? No offense.
But if I following new rule then high level Supply Bases losing their value to me completely. As I stated - previously I used them in first or second circle of cities around my capital to push capital LP a bit further. Now they are boosting only logistics between two zones, max 3-4 if I will build my road network around it (questionable as it force me to use sub-optimal paths).

P.S. Plus I'm like idea that Truck Stations are efficiently limited to a single zone - it's suit reality well for me (no one using trucks to delivery over 6k km!).

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramnblam
Bro don't listen to demi, he doesn't even want to feed his people :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

Damned forum engine (can't browse my own posts quickly), but I really don't remember that I even suggested to not feed my own people. I guess there is some misunderstanding.


< Message edited by demiare -- 7/20/2020 5:13:29 PM >

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 411
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 6:05:01 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1779
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

Your idea is attempt to abuse game and ignore new logistics rule added by Vic. I don't want to avoid it, I want to play with it instead.


quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

But if I following new rule then high level Supply Bases losing their value to me completely.


These two statements appear to be incongruent.

Supply bases provide all the same benefits, but you don't want to modify your behavior. You want the supply bases to fit your behavior, at the expense of everything else.

The only change to your circumstances, based on your comments, is that the added truck action points do not extend past a truck station.

That issue is not the result of the supply base or the truck station, it's because you aren't properly placing your supply bases. Modify the behavior and it works the way you wish, without "abuse" or "ignoring new logistic rules".

Granted, sometimes a player can't set the location of every city, but also sometimes, "The best is the enemy of the good."

We live with the minor inefficiencies. Certainly overall, players being able to understand, predict, and manage the LP flow is a greater benefit for everyone.

I would also advise to think about the highest tier capabilities of all assets when selecting placement. Don't just consider the moment, but moves ahead.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 7/20/2020 6:55:06 PM >


_____________________________

Nicht kleckern, sondern klotzen!

*Please remember all posts are made by a malevolent, autocratic despot whose rule is marked by unjust severity and arbitrary behavior. Your experiences may vary.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 412
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 7:00:32 PM   
Destragon

 

Posts: 475
Joined: 6/8/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare
Your idea is +1 branching point per each city. Okay if there is one city, questionable if there is two cities, no-way-ever if more.

The +1 branch is really not a big deal, when you try to keep your supply road as a single line for the most part anyway. If you have a road going past 5 cities, then that sounds like you're trying to supply half the planet with a single truck station. I would like to see some screenshots of that scenario. I think the logistics points would run out of movement points before the branching penalty would actually start to matter.
Anyway, you can turn off the branching penalty simply by placing a 100% blocker traffic light directed at the city.

quote:

Your idea is attempt to abuse game and ignore new logistics rule added by Vic. I don't want to avoid it, I want to play with it instead. Is that hard to understand? No offense.

I really, really don't think putting a road next to a truck station can in any way be seen as "abuse".
This is as much "abuse" as is trying to get around the branching penalty like you said in the sentence before this one.

< Message edited by Destragon -- 7/20/2020 7:02:19 PM >

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 413
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 7:21:24 PM   
Foxador

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/5/2020
Status: offline
Honestly the game would be better off without logistics in the first place. It's obviously not working that great as you need to keep changing it and it's vastly more complicated than anything else in the game for no purpose than to be complicated.

It's also something only the player has to deal with because it's too complicated for your AI to handle so it gets a free pass and cheats out of needing it. Because the AI doesn't need it and makes no pretense of pretending to need it you always end up taking over enemy cities with lvl 1 truck stations that are privately owned and no rail stations. But once you get the town you need to quickly fix the town into having such things because chances are that it's going to need them to supply the town and your troops that just took it. The way I see it, if it's too complicated for your own AI to handle than it's too complicated to have in place. It just means you're fighting with one hand behind your back while everyone else isn't because they're all cheating.

I can't find myself using most of the units you have in the game because the logistic system can't handle them. I want to use the other units like heavy tanks, monitor tanks with mobile artillery or even medium tanks but I can't. They use so much damn supplies that if I try using a corp of them in a offensive manner my supply network gets ruined under the strain of needing to give every unit 500-1k gas a piece. I could easily afford it but I can't give it to the troops which means I have no point to make them which means I have no point to make most of the items required to make said units.

(in reply to Destragon)
Post #: 414
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 7:53:29 PM   
CzarKasm

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/23/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxador

I can't find myself using most of the units you have in the game because the logistic system can't handle them. I want to use the other units like heavy tanks, monitor tanks with mobile artillery or even medium tanks but I can't. They use so much damn supplies that if I try using a corp of them in a offensive manner my supply network gets ruined under the strain of needing to give every unit 500-1k gas a piece. I could easily afford it but I can't give it to the troops which means I have no point to make them which means I have no point to make most of the items required to make said units.


I have to agree with this sentiment. This is an infantry and light tank game, unless you spend tons of game time building solely logistics infrastructure.

Medium tanks and up slurp fuel like an alcoholic at an open bar.

< Message edited by CzarKasm -- 7/20/2020 7:55:11 PM >

(in reply to Foxador)
Post #: 415
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 9:50:02 PM   
Smidlee

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/24/2014
Status: offline
Without Logistics the player will just run away with the game. Malevolence has made a post questioning if it even possible to lose a game.
I think Heavy tanks should be limited. Without fuel cost and logistics once I got heavy tanks why build light or medium tanks?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CzarKasm

I have to agree with this sentiment. This is an infantry and light tank game, unless you spend tons of game time building solely logistics infrastructure.

Medium tanks and up slurp fuel like an alcoholic at an open bar.

Wasn't that true for the Allies on the Western Front in WW2? The mass production of light tanks to the badly out numbers superior German tanks.

< Message edited by Smidlee -- 7/20/2020 9:54:16 PM >

(in reply to Foxador)
Post #: 416
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 10:20:01 PM   
demiare

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 6/20/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CzarKasm
I have to agree with this sentiment. This is an infantry and light tank game, unless you spend tons of game time building solely logistics infrastructure.


Sigh. Electric engines? Nuclear engines? Fuel efficiency repeatable tech? If you think to be capable to have a large force of heavy tank since day0 it's a not bright idea. Remember WW2 - it was a long road to heavy tanks. Hell, show me any strategy game where is wise to build biggest ships/units since day0?
Usually lvl2-3 truck station is enough to feed motorized force if you're using traffic signs PLUS keeping your forced adequate to your technologies (max gun & max armor is a big fat trap until veeeery late game or if you're using them only for mostly defensive battles close to major cities with railway).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smidlee
Wasn't that true for the Allies on the Western Front in WW2? The mass production of light tanks to the badly out numbers superior German tanks.


No. Nazis had a HUGE logistic issues when Western Front came into reality and simply can't supply their tanks there, so aside very few local battles they don't resisted much. It's hard to resist without fuel.

(in reply to CzarKasm)
Post #: 417
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/20/2020 10:58:53 PM   
CzarKasm

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/23/2011
Status: offline
Sure, there are techs that eventually show up to help with (or replace) fuel consumption, but it takes eons to get there.

And I wasn't even talking about massive tank armies thundering across the map. An independent medium tank regiment can wreck whatever logistics leg they are pulling from.

(in reply to demiare)
Post #: 418
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/21/2020 8:50:56 AM   
Vic


Posts: 7350
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
Thanks for the feedback everybody.

For the moment I think cutting of the logistics for a truck/rail station when reaching another station is a good one.

The big argument for me is:
1) that when you look at the logs in the traffic sign popup there are much less entries for each hex and it is actually possible to better understand what is going on. all the overlap if you had many logistical assets was creating an incomprehensible (for me) number of overlaps and entries.
2) that when using only the pull systems there will be much less cases where an already depleting logistics stream (due to distance from source) is high-jacking the pull points in a certain direction.

The supply bases will still be useful on long trajectories and especially on the frontline.

I am not rushing this beta however. And will give it some more time for reflection.

best wishes,
Vic


_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics


(in reply to CzarKasm)
Post #: 419
RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) - 7/21/2020 9:28:38 AM   
ramnblam

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 6/9/2020
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic



1) that when you look at the logs in the traffic sign popup there are much less entries for each hex and it is actually possible to better understand what is going on. all the overlap if you had many logistical assets was creating an incomprehensible (for me) number of overlaps and entries.





To be honest I never really understood or really tried to decipher the traffic sign log :D I'm really enjoying all the change's you've made to the logistics system. I feel things are more intuitive and controllable.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 420
Page:   <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Shadow Empire MATRIX VERSION Open Beta >> RE: Open Beta Patch v1.04-beta9 (last update 19th july!) Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.172