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4k monitor support - 6/4/2020 8:12:52 PM   
Majick

 

Posts: 164
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Hi Devs,

I'm just beginning my first game, looking forward to it.

However, like the majority of players (I expect, seeing as it is 2020) I am running on a 4k monitor. Why does the UI not scale to work properly on 4k?

I've had to reduce the resolution in order to play, which messes up other apps when I swap out and, by the way, looks awful.

Please give us an update to introduce proper 4k support with scaled UI.
Post #: 1
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/4/2020 8:21:12 PM   
kaliyama

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 7/22/2004
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already covered here - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4823262 . some kluge-y workarounds that might help you there too. dev's initial response was that there's nobody in this use case so don't hold your breath. hopefully they see the light. matrix has always had terrible support for higher resolutions or widescreen monitors so i have learned the hard way to let other people guinea pig new games, ty for your service.

< Message edited by kaliyama -- 6/4/2020 8:22:45 PM >

(in reply to Majick)
Post #: 2
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/4/2020 9:06:14 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 339
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
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It's a Matrix problem for sure, I love Distant World but have to force Windows scaling to play it.

The same is true of Strategic Command.

And yes, the same is true of Shadow Empire too!

It is indeed 2020, native support for higher than 'HD' really should be a thing. Scaling fonts, icons and UI correctly and thus retaining detail is key.

Right now, the scaling method just reduces the fidelity of everything in the game.

(in reply to kaliyama)
Post #: 3
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 7:55:32 PM   
KingHalford

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/18/2016
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I'd avoid the scaling method, it drastically reduces game performance.

I have both a 4K and 1440p monitor: I play on the 1440p in 1080p mode and that looks great, with smooth performance.

_____________________________

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eXplorminate.co

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 4
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 8:28:07 PM   
Gene Gerwin

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/8/2016
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Oh no!

This looked like exactly the game I've been waiting for. However, I only have a 4K monitor and have already had to return games that did not support that resolution.

What the hell? I'm so disappointed.

Gene

quote:

ORIGINAL: Majick

Hi Devs,

I'm just beginning my first game, looking forward to it.

However, like the majority of players (I expect, seeing as it is 2020) I am running on a 4k monitor. Why does the UI not scale to work properly on 4k?

I've had to reduce the resolution in order to play, which messes up other apps when I swap out and, by the way, looks awful.

Please give us an update to introduce proper 4k support with scaled UI.


(in reply to Majick)
Post #: 5
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 8:39:43 PM   
Vic


Posts: 6816
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
Open beta patch planned for tommorow. It will improve the speed of dpi 200% option for 4k users by a big amount.

< Message edited by Vic -- 6/5/2020 8:40:13 PM >


_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics


(in reply to Gene Gerwin)
Post #: 6
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 8:41:13 PM   
kaliyama

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 7/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gene Gerwin

Oh no!

This looked like exactly the game I've been waiting for. However, I only have a 4K monitor and have already had to return games that did not support that resolution.

What the hell? I'm so disappointed.

Gene

quote:

ORIGINAL: Majick

Hi Devs,

I'm just beginning my first game, looking forward to it.

However, like the majority of players (I expect, seeing as it is 2020) I am running on a 4k monitor. Why does the UI not scale to work properly on 4k?

I've had to reduce the resolution in order to play, which messes up other apps when I swap out and, by the way, looks awful.

Please give us an update to introduce proper 4k support with scaled UI.




Generationally, it seems like teams making complex wargames have a grognard mentality that either doesn't see the value in modern user experience/UI design or thinks accessible design is a sign of unseriousness. It seems like it might be a generational issue as the relatively younger and more modern designers behind WarPlan and Strategic Command here at Matrix, Paradox studios, and the teams behind BattleTech and X-COM 2 have embraced good design as a core part of the product. Hoping we see more of a shift at Matrix too.

(in reply to Gene Gerwin)
Post #: 7
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 8:48:04 PM   
AntoneT

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 5/29/2014
Status: offline
quote:

Hi Devs,

I'm just beginning my first game, looking forward to it.

However, like the majority of players (I expect, seeing as it is 2020) I am running on a 4k monitor. Why does the UI not scale to work properly on 4k?

I've had to reduce the resolution in order to play, which messes up other apps when I swap out and, by the way, looks awful.

Please give us an update to introduce proper 4k support with scaled UI.


According to Steam's hardware survey, 4K is still very much in the minority. Based on their May survey, 4k monitors are about 2.17% That's a pretty small group to devote a whole lot of resources to, especially for niche market games such as most of the Matrix Games catalog and even more of a challenge for games like Shadow Empire that are essentially done by a team of one.

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

(in reply to Gene Gerwin)
Post #: 8
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 8:55:22 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 7720
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From: Newark, OH
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4K support is like Linux or Mac support. Some smaller Dev teams don't have the software OS or hardware in the case of 4k to test and work these issues. Not a matter of 2020. The majority of screens are 1920x1080 right now and moreover even Windows and the Dev tools are just starting to catch up to the 4k and super-ultra-massive wide screens for support of the coding tools used. In the past, games would list a min screen res and today you need to add max supported to really tell the story. Give Vic some time to work out the kinks with 4K as he notes above.

_____________________________

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(in reply to kaliyama)
Post #: 9
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 8:58:28 PM   
AntoneT

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 5/29/2014
Status: offline
quote:

Generationally, it seems like teams making complex wargames have a grognard mentality that either doesn't see the value in modern user experience/UI design or thinks accessible design is a sign of unseriousness. It seems like it might be a generational issue as the relatively younger and more modern designers behind WarPlan and Strategic Command here at Matrix, Paradox studios, and the teams behind BattleTech and X-COM 2 have embraced good design as a core part of the product. Hoping we see more of a shift at Matrix too.


The size of the development teams for any of those non-Matrix games are significantly larger than the teams doing the Matrix games. Shadow Empire is Vic. Warplan is Alvaro. Strategic Command is basically Hubert and Bill. Even with fancier interfaces and graphics, I doubt niche games like what Matrix does would be successful enough to pay for larger development teams. Overall, I think we are pretty fortunate there is a publisher like Matrix where folks like Vic & Alvaro and the rest have the opportunity to share their games with us. If it were up to larger studios with their more expansive development model, I don't think we would have them at all.

< Message edited by AntoneT -- 6/5/2020 8:59:32 PM >

(in reply to AntoneT)
Post #: 10
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/5/2020 9:01:50 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 339
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
Steam reports 63.51% of users at 1920 x 1080.

That's a majority, yes, but it's ceratinly not everyone!

Steam also reports 12% of people using a higher resolution and the trend is rising.

Alienating a potential >10% of the customerbase is not good business. There's no way a higher definition UI would cost 10% of the game's budget, either.

What we're asking for is the text to scale appropriately (not just get bigger and blurrier), with the UI assets doing the same.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 11
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 2:48:15 PM   
Majick

 

Posts: 164
Joined: 1/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Open beta patch planned for tommorow. It will improve the speed of dpi 200% option for 4k users by a big amount.


Thats great news, thanks very much Vic

< Message edited by Majick -- 6/6/2020 2:50:27 PM >

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 12
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 3:07:37 PM   
Majick

 

Posts: 164
Joined: 1/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CapnDarwin

4K support is like Linux or Mac support. Some smaller Dev teams don't have the software OS or hardware in the case of 4k to test and work these issues. Not a matter of 2020. The majority of screens are 1920x1080 right now and moreover even Windows and the Dev tools are just starting to catch up to the 4k and super-ultra-massive wide screens for support of the coding tools used. In the past, games would list a min screen res and today you need to add max supported to really tell the story. Give Vic some time to work out the kinks with 4K as he notes above.


Having bought 2 monitors in the last few months I'm going to stick my neck out here...

I believe the vast majority of people buying monitors right now will be getting 4k monitors and some will be buying ultra-widescreen monitors.

Because 4k monitors are at a similar price point to that which monitors have always been there would be very little point in anyone buying a new monitor going after a lower resolution. Unless. that is, they specialised in playing Matrix games to the exclusion of anything else of course I expect people will struggle to buy anything other than 4k or ultra-wide over the next few months.

I don't have any figures to prove my assertion about purchases although I did try to find something on Google. Do you have anything to support your idea that the majority are 1900x1080?

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 13
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 3:09:10 PM   
SundiataWTF

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/14/2013
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Superb support! I wasn't looking forward to playing with lower resolution. Thanks for listening to player requests. I'm sure it's not easy on your own. And congratulations on what seems like a successful launch.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 14
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 4:19:50 PM   
Vic


Posts: 6816
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline
@To all,

There are 2 issues that keep getting a bit mixed up.

1. Should SE be playable with 4K monitor.

2. Should SE be playable with 4K monitor at native resolution without adjusting the monitor resolution or using my DPI 200% setting for doubling the pixels (ie. having super crisp graphics and fonts in 4K)

...

For point 1 i say yes. Either the resolution can be changed by the game, or with the latest patch we are getting good speed at the DPI 200% which just simulates a resolution change.

For point 2 i sadly say no, since that requirement would have me recode everything as well as requireing me to redo all graphics.

..

So concluding: What I am aiming at is a good and normal game experience for 4K owners, but only giving them the visual quality as if they had a HD monitor.

Best wishes,
Vic

_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics


(in reply to SundiataWTF)
Post #: 15
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 5:26:00 PM   
Krupinski


Posts: 337
Joined: 8/28/2010
Status: offline
I'm playing on a 3440x1440 Alienware-Monitor and it's quite fine as it is.

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 16
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 10:01:02 PM   
SundiataWTF

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/14/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski

I'm playing on a 3440x1440 Alienware-Monitor and it's quite fine as it is.

Congratulations on having better eyes than mine!

(in reply to Krupinski)
Post #: 17
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 11:05:08 PM   
Krupinski


Posts: 337
Joined: 8/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SundiataWTF


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krupinski

I'm playing on a 3440x1440 Alienware-Monitor and it's quite fine as it is.

Congratulations on having better eyes than mine!


Thank you. But it`s just my opinion nothing more.
My eyes arent quite good. And chances are high that i`m quite older compared to other posters.
But the truth is also in my 40+ gaming experience the only game i really had problems with was Distant Worlds on high resolution

Cheers
Krupinski

< Message edited by Krupinski -- 6/6/2020 11:06:06 PM >

(in reply to SundiataWTF)
Post #: 18
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/6/2020 11:50:49 PM   
VPaulus

 

Posts: 3505
Joined: 6/23/2011
From: Portugal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Majick
I don't have any figures to prove my assertion about purchases although I did try to find something on Google. Do you have anything to support your idea that the majority are 1900x1080?


https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

(in reply to Majick)
Post #: 19
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/7/2020 6:12:50 AM   
Yskonyn


Posts: 188
Joined: 6/27/2008
Status: offline
I am running the game on a 43” 4K monitor without issues as well.
I have disabled Windows DPI scaling.

I can either run the game in Full Screen to get more map in view or I can run the game in a window.
Both are fine on my end.

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Desktop: Intel i7 9700K @5.0Ghz, Nvidia GTX1080, 32GB RAM, Win 10 64bit

(in reply to VPaulus)
Post #: 20
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/7/2020 8:04:25 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1619
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The game would have to selectively load higher resolution versions of all the images.

That implies all the images in the game would have to be redone by artists at higher resolution. Up-vote for DLC.

Keep in mind the entire UI is likely a reskin of DotNET, WPF or Windows Forms. It would look like accounting software or Aurora 4X without all those images. Older titles here likely had to struggle with DirectX or Win32 native even for simple 2D.

Given what's available now, imagine the headache the developer had to solve to get the images to combine in place, but not have the fonts blow outside the lines due to DPI changes.


< Message edited by Malevolence -- 6/7/2020 8:25:42 AM >


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Post #: 21
RE: 4k monitor support - 6/7/2020 10:29:58 AM   
kosmoface

 

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Joined: 8/10/2010
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I don't mind the small font, but the map gets also smaller and the Zoom has not enough levels to go more "into it".

Is there a possibilty to have more Zoom levels while keeping the GUI as it is at 100% - and I don't mind that the Map gets a little bit blurry then, I have that also when I run the game at more than 100% Resolution.

< Message edited by kosmoface -- 6/7/2020 12:07:17 PM >

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 22
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