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[WAD] Problem with radars/ gun

 
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[WAD] Problem with radars/ gun - 6/1/2020 2:16:53 PM   
Theokarl1980

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/1/2020
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Hi guys
1.I have cmano v1.14.if you load db3k in a sql soft. U can see parameters of radars at Datasensors table,such as prf,frequency,peakpower and so on
One of them is resolution range that means if 2 targets are near than this range,radar should see them one target,it does'nt work!
similary for resol. azimuth &height
Ex:P14 Tallking A radar has 0.81 nm resol. Range and if u set 2 a/c at 100m distance and very closer,radar see 2 contact again!!
altitude max param. ,also dont work ,if you pass a a/c above P14,radar continuosly will have it (at 90 degree elevation!!just top of radar).it's impossible in real!!
2.Gun weapon has a bug.4 example ,a 155mm/39 M109A6 Howitzer facility has a 122mm HE gun.if u fire at a land contact such as a vehicle and then target moves,gun follow it !! Although gun weapon is not guided !!
Thanks for ur answers

< Message edited by apache85 -- 6/9/2020 3:52:23 AM >


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RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/2/2020 5:57:33 AM   
ronmexico111


Posts: 111
Joined: 1/24/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theokarl1980

Hi guys
1.I have cmano v1.14.if you load db3k in a sql soft. U can see parameters of radars at Datasensors table,such as prf,frequency,peakpower and so on
One of them is resolution range that means if 2 targets are near than this range,radar should see them one target,it does'nt work!
similary for resol. azimuth &height
Ex:P14 Tallking A radar has 0.81 nm resol. Range and if u set 2 a/c at 100m distance and very closer,radar see 2 contact again!!
altitude max param. ,also dont work ,if you pass a a/c above P14,radar continuosly will have it (at 90 degree elevation!!just top of radar).it's impossible in real!!
2.Gun weapon has a bug.4 example ,a 155mm/39 M109A6 Howitzer facility has a 122mm HE gun.if u fire at a land contact such as a vehicle and then target moves,gun follow it !! Although gun weapon is not guided !!
Thanks for ur answers


I think I would update CMANO to the newest version and then see if the bugs are still there.

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(in reply to Theokarl1980)
Post #: 2
RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/2/2020 6:30:05 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12393
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
Hi,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theokarl1980
Hi guys
1.I have cmano v1.14.if you load db3k in a sql soft. U can see parameters of radars at Datasensors table,such as prf,frequency,peakpower and so on
One of them is resolution range that means if 2 targets are near than this range,radar should see them one target,it does'nt work!
similary for resol. azimuth &height
Ex:P14 Tallking A radar has 0.81 nm resol. Range and if u set 2 a/c at 100m distance and very closer,radar see 2 contact again!!

This is a feature of the radar model that has not been implemented yet, for reasons better left to private comms. Future addition.

quote:


altitude max param. ,also dont work ,if you pass a a/c above P14,radar continuosly will have it (at 90 degree elevation!!just top of radar).it's impossible in real!!

I do not understand this. Please provide a better explanation and a suitable save file to demonstrate the possible issue.

quote:


2.Gun weapon has a bug.4 example ,a 155mm/39 M109A6 Howitzer facility has a 122mm HE gun.if u fire at a land contact such as a vehicle and then target moves,gun follow it !! Although gun weapon is not guided !!
Thanks for ur answers

This is as-designed actually; when we put together the gunnery code we wanted to discourage the player from manually driving around planes or ships to dodge gunfire or other unguided weapons (part of the "minimize micromanagement" mantra). So once the gun round (or rocket etc.) is fired, it will "stick" to its intended target.
That said, the fact that the target is moving (and also how much, and a lot of other factors) is indeed taken into account in the Pk & CEP calculations; it is much easier to achieve a direct hit (or "close enough" miss) on a static target than a moving one.
Incidentally, we are far from the first game to use this abstraction. Check out Mech Commander 1 & 2, for example, and you will see exactly the same thing, for the very same reason.

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RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/4/2020 6:03:29 PM   
Theokarl1980

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:


I do not understand this. Please provide a better explanation and a suitable save file to demonstrate the possible issue.


Thanks Mr Dranidis
sorry,it's not possible to send the .scen file now,but i will do it
I meant that: bcuz radars couldn't see their overhead targets,they should miss the contact that tracked it before when target pass on top of radar. Another radar parameter that may relate to this,is max altitude that it's not work. If target with alt. higher than max alt.,radar still detects and tracks it!
quote:


That said, the fact that the target is moving (and also how much, and a lot of other factors) is indeed taken into account in the Pk & CEP calculations; it is much easier to achieve a direct hit (or "close enough" miss) on a static target than a moving one.

If PK and CEP is same for a fixed and for a mobile unit? It's not logical
A moving unit should survive from gunnery bcuz its'nt guided weapon and gun is fired exactly on currently location of target not at future point (as for missiles)

< Message edited by Theokarl1980 -- 6/4/2020 6:05:15 PM >


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Post #: 4
RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/6/2020 6:41:34 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12393
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Theokarl1980
Thanks Mr Dranidis
sorry,it's not possible to send the .scen file now,but i will do it
I meant that: bcuz radars couldn't see their overhead targets,they should miss the contact that tracked it before when target pass on top of radar.

So, limits of maximum elevation angle? This is not modelled ATM.

If extreme radar fidelity fascinates you, you may find SAMSIM interesting: https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home . (Or MACE, if you can get it).

quote:


Another radar parameter that may relate to this,is max altitude that it's not work. If target with alt. higher than max alt.,radar still detects and tracks it!

I'm pretty sure we model this. If you can provide an example save we can look into it.

quote:


If PK and CEP is same for a fixed and for a mobile unit? It's not logical

They are not the same; both CEP and Pk are significantly worse when the target is moving.

quote:


A moving unit should survive from gunnery bcuz its'nt guided weapon and gun is fired exactly on currently location of target not at future point (as for missiles)

It is, in fact, possible to shoot at where the target is estimated to be when the projectile gets there; this is called "leading the target" and is an essential part of gunnery (and rockets).


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Post #: 5
RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/6/2020 9:11:36 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1277
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theokarl1980

A moving unit should survive from gunnery bcuz its'nt guided weapon and gun is fired exactly on currently location of target not at future point (as for missiles)


This is not true at all, either for land artillery or naval guns. If it WAS true, no artillery or naval gunfire would EVER hit anything. (Tanks yes, because of the high velocity, relatively short range).


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Post #: 6
RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/7/2020 12:45:13 PM   
Theokarl1980

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:


If it WAS true, no artillery or naval gunfire would EVER hit anything.

I meant gun is not guided weapon.so if it was fired and then a fixed target starts to move or a mobile tgt manuevers,then gun will miss it
quote:


I'm pretty sure we model this. If you can provide an example save we can look into it.

Yes,it's true.i made a mistake
quote:


this is called "leading the target" and is an essential part of gunnery (and rockets).



You r right, but if the gun, fire at future impact point of target.if 4 example engage a Howitzer vs. a mobile unit and then it fires ,at this moment,move manually the target to a different position.then u can see wonderfully,gunshots follow target and change their path toward it midway!!
This is very strange
Sorry ,it can not be shown in a scenario automatically to upload it.u should do it yourself
Sincerely


< Message edited by Theokarl1980 -- 6/7/2020 6:06:47 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Problem with radars/ gun - 6/8/2020 1:55:43 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12393
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Theokarl1980
You r right, but if the gun, fire at future impact point of target.if 4 example engage a Howitzer vs. a mobile unit and then it fires ,at this moment,move manually the target to a different position.then u can see wonderfully,gunshots follow target and change their path toward it midway!!
This is very strange


Please see above. It's a deliberate abstraction of the gunnery model in order to discourage manual fidgety micromanagement of exactly the kind you are describing. Command is about theater-level operations, it's not about re-playing "Scorched Earth".

Please play and enjoy the game for what it is, not what you would like it to be. Thanks!

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