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Italian Strategies - 5/31/2020 2:05:06 PM   
scout1


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Wondering what to do with the Italians early in the game, before the fall of France ?

Move assets to North Africa to pre-place them for free ?
Other ?
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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/31/2020 3:13:11 PM   
ncc1701e


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I am building lots of Marine division and Small Infantry corps to protect all the ports that are unprotected.


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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/31/2020 4:38:22 PM   
baloo7777


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I am doing similar to ncc1701c, including moving infantry around by rail to put them in defensive positions. Note that the French Alps are impassable for both sides, so you can use one of those small corps to garrison Genoa. I turn off reinforce/upgrade and put all I can on garrison duty.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/31/2020 4:45:48 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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I usually build one or two marine divisions and transports. First use is to take that port in Greece but later it gives the Italians the flexibility to strike anywhere in the Mediterranean if UK doesn't garrison every port. The treat is better than the result.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 8/12/2020 12:12:50 AM   
boldairade

 

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why did you guys build marines? i can't really see a use for them.

i understand they get less disorganized on a landing. but they are smaller and weaker than mountain or even regular corps.

vs any kind of opposition they seem to wilt.

it would seem more sturdy infantry formations are better?


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RE: Italian Strategies - 8/12/2020 5:29:08 AM   
battlevonwar


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Italians... It doesn't matter what you do with them, but building their own native Infantry to protect themselves is a bit a waste unless you're going to pack 'em in there. Using her Navy and building Marines? I don't see any use in that. Their Mnt. Inf are almost worth it. Her Navy is too small unless it's free in the Atlantic and with the Kriegsmarine and or has a ton of air cover to be useful. If Greece is a available she helps with that. Best thing you can do also is not try to lose her later in the game which can be a challenge.

You can go multiple routes with her. Build a bunch of CAS and support Germany. Build a Bunch of Armor and use them(though her armor is inherently worse than the Germans by XP) Really it's a Big Romania with an achilles heel, too much real estate that will let her surrender. Early on she is can help with Barbarossa or vs British. Later on she can defend less valuable sectors.

Italy = Germany's soft underbelly and oil drain! I think her NM should go up a tiny bit she is a little too easy to KO!



< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 8/12/2020 5:30:40 AM >

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RE: Italian Strategies - 8/19/2020 4:49:26 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar



Italy = Germany's soft underbelly and oil drain! I think her NM should go up a tiny bit she is a little too easy to KO!




No easier than it was in real life

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RE: Italian Strategies - 8/19/2020 8:34:13 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boldairade

why did you guys build marines? i can't really see a use for them.
i understand they get less disorganized on a landing. but they are smaller and weaker than mountain or even regular corps.
vs any kind of opposition they seem to wilt.
it would seem more sturdy infantry formations are better?


They make a good budget unit for opportunity amphibious attacks to cut supplies or seize an undefended port. They only require one Landing Ship like a division but have higher Firearms and Defense factors. That along with the bonuses of less damage in invasions makes them a handy unit to keep around. For the Axis having one or two across from England helps keep them honest with defending there ports. A couple defending Italian ports frees up other combat units and maintains a threat against everything in the Mediterranean. For the UK they serve a similar purpose. Keeping 2 or 3 in Russia, one up north and 2 on the Black Sea ensures that the German's waste troops covering their rear. Also can make a quick end run on Finland if you want to knock them out of the game.

Divisions could do the same job in most cases but the Marines can do it a little better. For the Russians who don't have divisions it is a good budget unit for this threat.

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Post #: 8
RE: Italian Strategies - 12/27/2020 3:27:25 AM   
generalfdog

 

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Italy needs to talk Germany in to helping them take Gibralter and or malta then they can breath a little easier. I usually avoid greece and send Italians to Russia or go all in in Egypt

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RE: Italian Strategies - 12/27/2020 9:12:38 AM   
OxfordGuy3


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Is attacking Yugoslavia in 1940 (with German assistance) a viable strategy? Perhaps with help from paratroopers, if France falls relatively early? I do realise Hungary and Romania don't go Axis until November, but is it still viable to go for Yugo before then? The Italians should be able to shutdown the only port the Allies could send reinforcements through.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 12/30/2020 12:12:59 PM   
ncc1701e


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After several games, I must admit I have difficulties with Italian production. I am under impression I am losing tons of manpower by waiting enough PP to build something nice.

Any tips from experts would be welcome.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 12/30/2020 10:50:09 PM   
battlevonwar


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Italian Production is terrible!

Therefore don't repair ships, disband it's fighter, and it's combat aircraft if you're that troubled. Don't use it's Air Craft for fighting the British unless you are also adding in the Germans(the Italians cannot afford to be drained this way)

Train the Italians vs the Russians. Build Mnt Infantry or Armor Mech and research those techs. Augment it's Production with German Production and use it's Manpower. Use German Infantry Corp on it's Surrender Cities rather than it's own and use Italian Corp elsewhere on low important ports you want to still keep.

By Barbarossa it's possible to have 3 Armor/1 Mech and Messe commanding with 2 CAS in support. Plus enough Infantry to protect from a weak Italian Invasion. You would need Germans to cover the rest...

During '42 if the British don't fight you, you can add 3 or so Mountain Corp and perhaps several more small Inf Corp. Use these to plug gaps, knock out Partisans and garrison the world. Italy is weak as hell but she can be useful(also send your excess gasoline to them from Germany so you don't lose any) She can utilize it then! Never lead with the Italians(remember to lead with the German Generals) Unless of course you get Messe way up there!

P.S. Do NOT upgrade any of it's Small Corps you don't expect will defend real objectives!


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

After several games, I must admit I have difficulties with Italian production. I am under impression I am losing tons of manpower by waiting enough PP to build something nice.

Any tips from experts would be welcome.


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Post #: 12
RE: Italian Strategies - 12/31/2020 2:07:58 AM   
malkarma

 

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If you want to keep the Italian tactic air units, dont make the mistake to swicht them to Naval Air. Due their low experience, the naval air factor will not increase. The only useful tech for them is the Detection & Electronics one. With only the '40 level those planes will have range 14, something that will allow them to have a better coverage of the Med (you can cover al the coast from Tobruk to Alexandria with an unit deployed in Rhodes) or will be able to aatack the artic convoy lane from Norway that is 12-13 hexes away from the coast.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 12/31/2020 9:49:04 AM   
ncc1701e


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quote:

ORIGINAL: malkarma

If you want to keep the Italian tactic air units, dont make the mistake to swicht them to Naval Air. Due their low experience, the naval air factor will not increase.


I did already.

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You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

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Post #: 14
RE: Italian Strategies - 1/2/2021 6:56:36 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: malkarma

If you want to keep the Italian tactic air units, dont make the mistake to swicht them to Naval Air. Due their low experience, the naval air factor will not increase.


Well it will, if you research a few levels first, no?


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Post #: 15
RE: Italian Strategies - 1/3/2021 1:12:04 PM   
malkarma

 

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Barely due the diminishing return or experience and effectiveness, and will take time. I want the Italian planes useful in 1940 not in 1942...but this is my personal taste.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/5/2021 4:27:17 PM   
Christolos


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quote:

Move assets to North Africa to pre-place them for free ?


Hi scout1,

I noticed that doing this (i.e., with transports) did not use any oil. I suppose this is what you mean by "for free".

If so, why is that? Is this WAD until Italy joins the war?

C

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Post #: 17
RE: Italian Strategies - 5/5/2021 8:07:53 PM   
stjeand


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I don't find the Italians completely useless...this is where I use them...

Marines are size 10...smaller units are better in Africa due to limits on supply. They are a little pricy but a cheaper way to invade also since they are size 10 you don't need to spend another 25 on landing craft.

The fighter...GO TO USSR. It is better than the USSR fighters and will do well growing...but prior travel to France with your bombers and make the Battle of Britain happen. More training.

Mountain corps are great...LONG to build and expensive. But definitely the best units that have since they do not need oil.

I am currently playing around with their cavalry...not great but fast, cheap and no oil. Good for surrounding units in the USSR.
I would rather build them then their base infantry for the movement but they are susceptible to air so be careful.

I actually switch all my bombers to naval air and focus on it in tech. Why? Why not...there is little else...and if you can catch a UK fleet...

Just have to get them trained up. Losing 2 exp to switch...so what. That comes back easy.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/5/2021 9:38:38 PM   
Christolos


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Thanks stjeand, but do you know if the movements of Italian units are supposed to be 'free' in that no oil is used until they enter the war?

C

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Post #: 19
RE: Italian Strategies - 5/6/2021 1:54:54 PM   
stjeand


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Not that I ever knew of.

Armor / Mech / air moving will use oil.
Units not on rail will use oil.


First thing I do as the Italians is get all my infantry on rail and I do NOT move my air or armor except by transport.

They will run out of oil fast.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/7/2021 11:54:47 AM   
Christolos


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Ok, I understand now that naval units don't use oil when moving out of a port, and from a port to a port. This explains why transporting Italian units by sea to Libya, does not use oil.

C

< Message edited by Christolos -- 5/7/2021 11:57:52 AM >


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“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

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Post #: 21
RE: Italian Strategies - 5/7/2021 1:36:26 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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Am I sufferings memory loss or is it easier for the Allies to force Italy to surrender? Seems like in most ver 10 that being able to affect Italy morale by taking places like Tripoli makes them vulnerable to a quick kill by taking just one main land VP city.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/7/2021 6:51:53 PM   
stjeand


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You have to take 6 points...so a 5 and a 1 man power...or a 10...or 2 5s...

And I don't think they resource that was moved to the mainland counts. I tried that if I remember and it did not work.


I don't think they are any "easier" persay...I suspect people are not guarding the ports with good enough troops since theirs...are basically guard units.

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/10/2021 1:43:44 AM   
jjdenver

 

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Are Italy's subs useful in this game? Can they pass through a UK-held Gibraltar to get into the Atlantic? If not is there anything for them to do in the Med? Should the tech be researched? Should they be disbanded?'

Also in scenario notes it's mentioned that 3 alpine hexes have to be garrisoned. I looked at Italian-French border and don't see any alpine hexes. What hexes exactly need to be garrisoned? Is this garrison required from turn 1?




And another question - is it useful for Italy to DOW early? It seems like they are vulnerable so delaying their entry might be good?

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< Message edited by jjdenver -- 5/11/2021 12:13:37 AM >

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RE: Italian Strategies - 5/12/2021 8:04:27 PM   
stjeand


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Subs are pretty useless unless you capture Gibraltar. I have never sunk anything with them...just gotten them sunk and rarely damaged a ship.
I use them to blockade Malta.
If I take Malta they sit in port until I suicide them on enemy ships. They are mostly an oil drain on the Italians, basically Germans.
And you can not disband naval units.

As for the garrisons...

There are French troops on the border with Italy to start. The French must occupy each hex with a unit. Could be a just a division...but must be a unit.


Early DOW can be good for attacks in Africa if the UK is not ready for them. Also you may catch some transports enroute. I have done that a few times...though it was a mistake made by my opponent...forgot to move a unit to the Alpine hex. DOW's and sank a fighter and a large corp in Gibraltar...


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