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THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELCOME

 
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THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELCOME - 5/25/2020 12:16:47 PM   
sillyflower


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After the titanic, and at times wonderfully absurd, struggle between us (see: www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4814300) which ended in a fluke Allied win on the last turn, we are starting round 2 with version .07 with the fixed '39 scenario ie the Russian inf xxx don't throw their guns away when the Evil Empire starts Barbarossa.

Anyone familiar with my WiTE AARs will know that I try to mix explanation with the narrative, with generous helpings of trash talk.

The name of the AAR comes from Bernard Cornwell's excellent series of books about the heroic efforts of the Anglo Saxons to fend off and smash the evil Vikings, of whom sveint is a no doubt a proud descendant. The DNA shows in his great love of invasions. The books have been made into a great TV show (4th series is now on Netfix) which I commend to anyone who has any interest in the period, or who just likes a lot of gory violence and treachery.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 8/4/2020 11:03:45 PM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELC... - 5/25/2020 12:30:31 PM   
sillyflower


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War is clearly imminent as shown by this picture said to be of sveint, taken by Polish Intelligence just across the german side of the border





How can we lose against such a poser??

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 5/25/2020 12:31:58 PM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELC... - 5/25/2020 6:07:38 PM   
ncc1701e


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Awesome! I will follow this with interest.



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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELC... - 5/26/2020 12:52:28 PM   
sillyflower


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We've both done T1. I am winning because he hasn't conquered a country yet, but I have. The people of Luxembourg welcome their new french overlords in true Kent Brockman style. (Those not familiar with the Simpsons should ignore the previous sentence).

There was also a serious security lapse on the German side. This was found on a dead german lieutenant just outside Posnan.







We all suspected that the Axis would try many invasions, but the Kriegsmarine is clearly looking for innovative solutions to a serious shortage of kit. I'm not sure that this is one of sveint's better ideas though.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 5/26/2020 12:58:40 PM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELC... - 5/27/2020 8:15:42 AM   
sillyflower


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T2

Sveint may have overrun the plucky Poles, but the biter has been bitten. I had taken a screenie but turned my PC off last night before saving it. This is not going to be a high tech AAR

The allies do the first sea invasion of the war! Silly 1 sveint 0 is not how the game is supposed to go....

Hamburg fall to a plucky British inf xx that landed at an unguarded Bremerhaven.. Sources close to the German gov.t report high levels of unrest, particularly as there are currently no German troops between our gallant lads and Berlin. The Nazi economy will be damaged for weeks and there are even rumours the German morale has fallen so low that a coup can be expected

Vaguely serious note: this invasion was done by a 3 strength division so the cost was tiny.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. SVEINT WELC... - 5/27/2020 11:41:26 AM   
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You should bite the bullet & invade Belgium, while he is distracted

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/28/2020 1:18:42 PM   
sillyflower


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T3

The plucky Brit brigade succumbs to attacks by half the wehrmacht but they will be credited with stopping sveint taking out Holland in T3. To any sceptical reader, I deny that truth is the first casualty in war, and nor will it be at any time in this AAR.

Nothing else to report other than shuffling the French around in much the same way as sveint describes in his AAR vs Liquidsky, but in a less well-organised way. Sveint plays with Nordic efficiency, I role play as the French. Their refusal to be organised by their government is legendary, and quite admirable in a way. As de Gaulle said when he was president 'it is impossible to run a country that has 500 different cheeses' - tho' undoubtedly he said it in french.

All ports inc on Cyprus are garrisoned to try to exert some control.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/28/2020 3:02:49 PM   
Flaviusx


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Sigh. Stupid naval invasion tricks.

This is really my least favorite part of the game. Some people hate partisans, this is what I hate.

Naval invasions are too easy and lend themselves to endless cheese. Of course it is easy enough to prevent this particular cheese (DO NOT LEAVE PORTS UNGARRISONED FOR THE LOVE OF GOD) but even so.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/28/2020 4:15:21 PM   
eskuche

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
Anyone familiar with my WiTE AARs will know that I try to mix explanation with the narrative, with generous helpings of trash talk.


Hopping forums to confirm this part.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/28/2020 6:36:10 PM   
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Happy to see a more AARs.

Garrison your ports always unless you want unwelcome visitors .

/MM

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/29/2020 10:45:59 AM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Sigh. Stupid naval invasion tricks.

This is really my least favorite part of the game. Some people hate partisans, this is what I hate.

Naval invasions are too easy and lend themselves to endless cheese. Of course it is easy enough to prevent this particular cheese (DO NOT LEAVE PORTS UNGARRISONED FOR THE LOVE OF GOD) but even so.


It's not as annoying as partisans because the solution lies in the hands of the port-owner and garrisoning is neither difficult or a chore, and they needed garrisons IRL. 1 of my other opponents invaded America a few turns ago. It was a different way to fail ..........but warplan is not a WiTE -style simulation. I like both but I think that the weird 1st game I had vs sveint is the game I'm most likely to look back on with a smile. I don't eat cheese so perhaps I just need a different source of it

The other solution is a simple house rule re invasions. The root cause of the cheese is that players can see which hexes contain units anywhere the map, for which there is no historic justification. However, I do not advocate changing that.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 5/29/2020 10:46:49 AM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/29/2020 11:12:32 AM   
Flaviusx


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You don't eat cheese? But it is the best source of calcium and tasty and it keeps you from doing silly naval invasions. A sharp cheddar is a sovereign remedy here.

But then you'd have to change your name to something other than Sillyflower.

Cheeseeatingflower admittedly does not roll off the tongue.

More seriously, yes, an alert player can shut this stuff down by planting a division on every port and should do so. But I still think the whole thing is way too easy. No prep required, no escort, no political consequences for total suicide missions. There is no real cost at all here. The division you threw away is completely disposable in game mechanic terms. I don't like any of it. It ought to be harder than this. I hope the Pacific version of this game steps it up.

Am also doubting that even the crazy British would be okay with this sort of suicide mission, notwithstanding their historic tolerance for suicidal ventures in Norway, Greece, Dunkirk, etc. You guys have a bad habit for this sort of thing.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/29/2020 11:47:32 AM   
sillyflower


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Noncheeseeatingflower would be more accurate but even sillier. Anyway, I thought that cheese-eaters are surrender-monkeys, and I try to avoid having to do that. Perhaps Polleneatingflower would be a better match, though somewhat self-contradictory.

I think you meant to refer to Dieppe, not Dunkirk. We had the sense to use someone else for that. We have both posted elsewhere that invasions are too cheap to do, and I think that particularly true of long range ones that need a bit more than Siebel ferries.


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/30/2020 9:45:06 AM   
sillyflower


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We are now up to early Jan '40 but nothing happening. Sveint's subs seem untouchable and using guided torpedoes wich is qite annoying. He's turned off the iron ore shipments from Narvik to prevent the loss of Germany's merchant fleet. Sensible but still annoying.

I scrap 2 Soviet inf xxx per turn, building 2 replacements per turn as the programme to create Red Army 2.0 (or perhaps 1.5). At least it's something to do whilst the wehrmacht is quiescent. I have no idea if this the best way to proceed. I have been scrapping the corps at the front first to tempt sveint into doing an early Barbarossa (he does have twice the necessary units in Poland) but it's a long-shot.




Astute readers may notice that some of the inf xxx created at the same time have the same name. I am assured that this is to confuse the enemy, rather than a trivial glitch in the game.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 5/31/2020 9:40:15 AM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/30/2020 8:01:10 PM   
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Yes, I feel your pain.

Just started playing a few weeks ago and the invasion thing does seem a little gamey.

But it does make for allot of non-historical out comes - not boring for sure.


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/30/2020 8:08:49 PM   
RoadWarrior

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

More seriously, yes, an alert player can shut this stuff down by planting a division on
every port and should do so.


Even that does not work all the time. Some ports you can land at two hexes with Corps and cap the port.

One way to slow it down would be 3x the cost to build landing craft and 2x per point cost to carry per point of unit.

Quick simple fix - less mindless cheese more thinking aka planning.


< Message edited by RoadWarrior -- 5/30/2020 8:09:19 PM >

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/31/2020 9:44:07 AM   
sillyflower


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Still nothing to report except that sveint's uboats are getting to be a little more than annoying. I suspect there is a bug.

See my 'invincible subs' thread www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4821637

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/31/2020 7:02:13 PM   
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Nah, they've been like this for a while. The allies need a lot of luck to get any hits on those subs early on, and subs can cause quite a bit of damage during the phony war.



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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/31/2020 7:21:17 PM   
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Well an average of over 5 merchants sunk per turn over a dozen turns is more than I ever accomplished playing solo. But maybe I haven't played enough to be an accurate sample size.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/31/2020 10:07:09 PM   
Flaviusx


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Are you grouping them together? Use them in packs of 3 for best results. Don't split them up. This is the secret sauce.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/31/2020 10:33:40 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Are you grouping them together? Use them in packs of 3 for best results. Don't split them up. This is the secret sauce.


I was not grouping them together. My understanding from the Manual was that 10 convoy escorts provide maximum protection no matter how many resources/merchant ships are using a particular convoy route. In other words using more than 10 for any route is pointless. Is that not true?

If so, one would think that if you grouped all of your subs to attack just one convoy route the Allied Player could put 10 of his escorts onto that single route giving it maximum protection and limiting sub damage. But since the Allied player doesn't have enough convoy escorts to cover all of his routes, logic would dictate that the Axis player would sink more merchants by splitting up his u-boats between 2 or 3 convoy routes; thus forcing the Allied Player to use less than the maximum escorts for each route (or perhaps maximizing one route at the expense of the others).

So either I don't understand the Rules or logic doesn't apply here. Either way I thank you for your advice.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 5/31/2020 11:38:17 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Are you grouping them together? Use them in packs of 3 for best results. Don't split them up. This is the secret sauce.


I was not grouping them together. My understanding from the Manual was that 10 convoy escorts provide maximum protection no matter how many resources/merchant ships are using a particular convoy route. In other words using more than 10 for any route is pointless. Is that not true?

If so, one would think that if you grouped all of your subs to attack just one convoy route the Allied Player could put 10 of his escorts onto that single route giving it maximum protection and limiting sub damage. But since the Allied player doesn't have enough convoy escorts to cover all of his routes, logic would dictate that the Axis player would sink more merchants by splitting up his u-boats between 2 or 3 convoy routes; thus forcing the Allied Player to use less than the maximum escorts for each route (or perhaps maximizing one route at the expense of the others).

So either I don't understand the Rules or logic doesn't apply here. Either way I thank you for your advice.


Based on my exp ( 2 games vs sveint ) only the southern route at start has ships to sink, so pack ships south to start then spread.

Rule sets generally never reflect how things really work the first few months after release.



< Message edited by RoadWarrior -- 5/31/2020 11:41:22 PM >

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/2/2020 11:10:08 PM   
sillyflower


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Back to the game for now. May 10 '40




sveint finally decides to be all masterful and throws the wehrmacht at plucky little Holland which will now be under sveint's jackboot for at least a couple of years. Plucky Belgium hold out for now.

As sveint wrote, luck tends to even out and we agree it's better to have luck on land than at sea. The French army decided to stay put inside its defences in France and Luxembourg. The retreated Belgian xxx (on the far left) can serve no useful purpose and is disbanded for replacements. All Belgian units in or adjacent to Brussels put in defence mode and ? 1 or 2 others but I forget.

At least no baddies expected in France before June.
The BEF makes a cameo performance - something I almost never do in WWII games, but sveint is bound to want to take Spain and Greece in '40 so Yugoslavia joins him and he can have a full-blooded Barbarossa in '41.

Another first for me: I occupy Iceland. Given his success with the uboats, I thought sveint would try to grab it if he could.



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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 6/2/2020 11:27:45 PM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/3/2020 2:59:11 PM   
sillyflower


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24.05.40





Belgium surrendered after the XXX in Brussels shattered after receiving 3 casualties after a lot of bombing. A bit disappointing but hopefully the Germans have accrued good amount of fatigue.

As seen above, rain prevented the axis from reaching the French border at any point. The French decide it's more comfortable to stay in their entrenchments rather than risking muddy boots if they advanced into Belgium. Having been taught a well known English taunt, the French set up speakers at the front which blare out the message "come and get us if you think you're hard enough." This may be a mistake, but we shall see. The BEF itself is more interested in the duty-free shops of Calais.

I have not seen such bad weather before. If I wasn't a complete ......(you may add in your own appropriate epithet, gentle reader), I would have some sympathy for my opponent, but that is an emotion beyond my comprehension.

At least the Atlantic has been sub free for a couple of turns. They are presumably upgrading to '40 tech. My escorts already have. all but 1 or 2 french corps have upgrading whether they have AT or assault capability, apart from those on the Maginot line.

The plan: to stop sveint getting Spain and Greece and early enough to wreak more havoc before has to focus on Barbarossa, and stopping him getting Yugoslavia as an ally which means Greece holding on until '41. I don't see him wanting another '42 attack. My other, related priority is to stop him grabbing all of N. Africa + the middle east like he did last time. Keeping all ports garrisoned is key to this, as is keeping the UK safe from successful invasion.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 6/3/2020 3:28:59 PM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/3/2020 4:45:49 PM   
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Heh.

I would've at least marched a French corps into Brussels here and maybe some more besides that. Of course, you couldn't know in advance you'd get rain, and you had those nice foxholes in France, but still.

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/3/2020 9:53:09 PM   
sillyflower


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the weather last turn prevented me from getting a french unit into Brussels, or at least I think it did. I know it was 3 MP to get 1 hex over the border. I remembered an earlier AAR where Brussels or Amsterdam was holding out until the player inserted a french xxx into the city, only for the city to be captured next turn.

I also thought of advancing 2 xxx over to attack the G inf xxx SE of Brussels, along with 3 Belgians. A 5 hex attack with only 2 chances of getting a retreat result, which would have meant a shatter. I decided that would a fun result,but not that much help and would do. However, failure (the more likely result) would mean 5 xxx much weakened, Brussels would certainly fall and would probably shorten Fall Gelb by a turn. Even success might have had the same negative impact

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/5/2020 10:16:22 AM   
sillyflower


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I don't know how up to date svient is keeping in his AAR, but this was the relatively weak start to the invasion of France that I had expected




The refreshed uboats re-appeared in the Atlantic doing their Groundhog Day thing: as did the RN with its expected failure of my 3 carriers (inc 2 upgraded to 1940 tech) to do anything useful.

I was also most careless in my turn (it was well past my bedtime) and forgot to replace the xxx I had taken out of Metz with anything else

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 6/5/2020 10:25:05 AM >


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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/5/2020 9:21:50 PM   
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21/6/40 Allied research





This my normal set up, driven mainly by the set up forces. I leave the strategic air war (bombers + escorts) to the Yanks, and scrap the UK escort ftrs when they get a bit obsolete. I don't have any fixed ideas about build queues, but just what I fancy and depending on the game situation. I never build warships, unless uboats are being a nuisance when I will buy some escorts. I only buy unit types will benefit from research

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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/5/2020 9:50:13 PM   
sillyflower


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During the turn, sveint went south Liquidsky-style if you've read that AAR of sveint. Para took Metz I didn't take a screenie as I assume sveint had, but I don't care because the Miracle of the Atlantic happened





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RE: THE LAST KINGDOM: Sillyflower v sveint. NO SVEINT - 6/5/2020 10:27:13 PM   
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Nice.

Don't quote me on this, but I suspect that grouping carriers is better than splitting them up for this kind of work. The mechanics of the sub war are not very intuitive as you have seen. Would love to see the code and formulas on this.

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WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to sillyflower)
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