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Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea?

 
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Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:27:30 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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Its Jan 42. I have BB CA/CL and DD near Rabaul. I am getting tired of sending everything to Brisbane to reload ammo. I send the Pyro, which is listed as an ammunition ship. Unfortunately it will not reload any ship I send to it.
Is there a trick I am missing?
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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:30:48 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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rearming at sea was a late war development

you need to disband the AE at a port (or dot base) then you can rearm

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:31:12 PM   
Yaab


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Underway ammo replenishment for ships is available from 1945. Before that date, your replenish from AE/AKE ships disbanded in ports.

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:36:00 PM   
Leandros


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It needs to be loaded, too.

Fred

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:48:19 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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Maybe I am over thinking this. Right now I cannot rearm at Townsville but when I take the Pyro to Townsville and disband it. I can then arm ships? It does not seem to make practical scents. I will take it however.

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:48:37 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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thanks for the answer everyone!

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:51:45 PM   
Leandros


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As far as I know you can take it to any friendly port and rearm if you disband the Pyro TF - Milne Bay, Port Moresby, whatever. But, Pyro must be loaded with supplies (ordnance, that is).

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 5/22/2020 7:53:36 PM >


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River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 7:58:13 PM   
Yaab


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Can Brisbane really reload BB guns in January, 1942?

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 8:10:20 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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no but it can reload CA
. I am sending a BB there now so I will see.

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 9:11:29 PM   
dr.hal


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Today we have a tendency to think of underway replenishment and rearming as an everyday thing, but it was virtually unheard of prior to WW2 (in WW1 some "at sea" re-coaling was done, but it was a long laborious process, avoided at all costs unless absolutely necessary) and only developed later in the war out of necessity. Even today there are very few navies that have the equipment and capability to undertake this sort of rather complicated and dangerous maneuver. The game is much more forgiving than real life when it comes to this sort of thing, especially refueling where it can be done from merchant ships, etc., while in harbor. A very messy and time consuming process. In terms of reload cost and capabilities of ports, look at the port's "re-arm" number and that will tell you what weapons can be rearmed (look at the weapon load cost) by that port..

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 9:36:03 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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I cannot imagine being the guy on the chair dangling over the water on the transfer! I just watched a vid from The History Guy on YouTube about a ammo ship in a harbor that blew up.
I just looked in the book to see if they had any info about what size a pot has to be fore a given ammo type. The book is less than as useful as I was hoping for! Do you know what size the port has to be for a given gun size?

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 9:59:00 PM   
Nomad

 

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You could look at section 20.1.2.2 Ship Rearmament at ports table.

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 10:00:18 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

Do you know what size the port has to be for a given gun size?

It's all in the manual.

Fred
-----

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 10:19:18 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

I cannot imagine being the guy on the chair dangling over the water on the transfer! I just watched a vid from The History Guy on YouTube about a ammo ship in a harbor that blew up.
I just looked in the book to see if they had any info about what size a pot has to be fore a given ammo type. The book is less than as useful as I was hoping for! Do you know what size the port has to be for a given gun size?


15.2 of the Manual goes over rearming in port. Section 6.3.1.1. has a graphic of ports and their rearming level. I can not find reference to whether or not naval support helps add to the rearming level of a port, others (Alfred) must step in here. Naval support does increase cargo handling speed but I don't know about rearming. An Ammo ship (AKE) certainly helps. Large ticket items such as torpedoes can only be handled at larger ports or by tenders disbanded in smaller ports. In all cases there must be sufficient supply available in the port and/or associated tender. Battleship rounds can only be handled by larger ports and the larger a caliber gun tube the more difficult it will be to find a port for reloading (Yamato class comes to mind with 18.1 monsters that need BIG ports).

Just looked at the tables in 20.1.2.2. and naval support does help. Good to know. That should be all you need to find the right "rearming" fit.

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 5/22/2020 10:29:51 PM >

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/22/2020 11:49:30 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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If I am reading this section correctly Brisbane has 740 s it should be able to reload 8inch with no help. Townsville has 290 with a level 4 ship yard next turn. 5 inch is all I can re-arm there without help. The ammo ship does not say how many points it will bring in.
After looking more closely at this chart I had a V8 moment about all the opportunities missed!

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/23/2020 12:18:57 AM   
Dili

 

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If i am reminding right, the size of the load capability in the ship vs the load cost in gun is what is capable of loading. It is all in manual.

< Message edited by Dili -- 5/23/2020 9:28:50 PM >

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/23/2020 6:44:26 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Today we have a tendency to think of underway replenishment and rearming as an everyday thing, but it was virtually unheard of prior to WW2 (in WW1 some "at sea" re-coaling was done, but it was a long laborious process, avoided at all costs unless absolutely necessary) and only developed later in the war out of necessity. Even today there are very few navies that have the equipment and capability to undertake this sort of rather complicated and dangerous maneuver. The game is much more forgiving than real life when it comes to this sort of thing, especially refueling where it can be done from merchant ships, etc., while in harbor. A very messy and time consuming process. In terms of reload cost and capabilities of ports, look at the port's "re-arm" number and that will tell you what weapons can be rearmed (look at the weapon load cost) by that port..


Further to dr.hal's comments.

Prior to WWI, one of the major considerations for extending the British flag across the world was to secure port coaling stations to enable the transit of RN ships from A to B, let alone conduct any operations away from home waters. Most coaling at sea was undertaken by German raiders who being denied port coaling facilities, relied on either rendezvousing with German coalers or capturing enemy coalers. It would take a day to refill the coal bunkers of the raiders. In fact the destruction of the German East Asian squadron at the Falklands can be attributed to the necessity of finding coal limiting the route options, thus enabling the RN to intercept it.

Alfred

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/23/2020 6:53:28 AM   
Alfred

 

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The Pyro is not big enough to fully rearm all Allied battleships.

Alfred

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/23/2020 4:06:19 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

If I am reading this section correctly Brisbane has 740 s it should be able to reload 8inch with no help. Townsville has 290 with a level 4 ship yard next turn. 5 inch is all I can re-arm there without help. The ammo ship does not say how many points it will bring in.
After looking more closely at this chart I had a V8 moment about all the opportunities missed!

Rearming from an AE or AKE compares the ship capacity (load) with the load cost of the weapon it is arming (not the shell weight, the gun, torpedo, bomb or mine weight). The rearm table gives you that weight IIRC, so just compare the rearm level there with the AE/AKE capacity.
Naval Support does increase the calculated port level so you can load BB guns in an otherwise too small port if you have enough NS. The port must have enough supply too.

EDIT: I should add that operations points are part of the calculation too, and you might not fully rearm all your ships in one turn. Bigger ports can load more per ops point so they will do a better job than a smaller one. Check your ships being rearmed to confirm they are finished.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 5/23/2020 4:09:07 PM >


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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/23/2020 4:57:41 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

If I am reading this section correctly Brisbane has 740 s it should be able to reload 8inch with no help. Townsville has 290 with a level 4 ship yard next turn. 5 inch is all I can re-arm there without help. The ammo ship does not say how many points it will bring in.
After looking more closely at this chart I had a V8 moment about all the opportunities missed!


It is the port size and not the shipyard. The solutions are: Bring in AEs and/or AKEs, or else expand the port and or bring in enough Naval support to effectively increase the port size as far as rearming goes.

I have reloaded from a taskforce with AKEs, ADs, and AOs at a port. There were no ships in port.

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RE: Ammo ships dont want to reload ammo at sea? - 5/25/2020 7:35:20 PM   
Moltrey


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Ah, LOGISTICS.
A real eye-opener for me wrt the Pacific War from the US side was getting the digital version of Beans, Bullets and Black Oil by W.R. Carter in 1953.
It covers the war from a logistics point-of-view, which is definitely different. But what comes across very clearly is just how unprepared the US Navy was for a large Pacific war. Granted, much of this was due to budget cuts in the late interwar period.
The other thing that stood out is how amazing the support side of the navy was- learning as they went but dedicated to getting the job done. I found it rather fascinating, plus it lets you compare their logistical plan and locations with what you intend on trying as Grand Admiral in WITP:AE.

Well worth the price of admission and time to read. Highly recommended.

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