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1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade

 
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1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:49:57 PM   
ncc1701e


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Playing 1.00.07 in hotseat mode. This is the first turn of Europe 1939 scenario.

UK have 205 MM total and 151 in use.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 6:53:55 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
Post #: 1
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:05 PM   
ncc1701e


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France have 29 MM total and 10 in use.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 6:55:19 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 2
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:19 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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USA have 89 MM total and 30 in use.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 6:56:12 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 3
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:31 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/29/2013
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USSR have 20 MM total and 0 in use.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 6:57:13 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 4
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:38 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
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As per manual, I would like to create a trade between UK and France.

quote:

Convoys and Escorts – Here a player can find all overseas convoys and trades between countries. A player can view, setup, and cancel trades during the game. Trades transfer the selected production and oil every turn to the target trade partner. No more than 25% of a country’s total production and 25% of its stored oil can be traded away. Conquered and owned countries resources only show up on the trade list if they are traveling by naval convoy. Trades travel via undamaged rail or convoy routes. All production resources yield full value to the country that owns and controls the resource. If a player controls but does not own the resource, it will yield 1/3 of its amount. The bottom left panel of the screen shows all current trades
and their status. Trade types can be allied, agreement, conquest, or owned. A green arrow indicates an import, a red arrow an export. Trades that travel by convoy use merchant marine and are subject to raiders and submarine attack along their route. Each resource point sent requires one merchant marine.


quote:

Merchant Marine – Resources transferred over a convoy route require merchant marine. The game automatically calculates how many merchant marine a country will need to transport the resources. If a player lacks the ships required, the difference percentage is taken from the total shipped. Production and oil are equally affected. The game pulls merchant marine from the receiver of the trade. If the country that is the origin of the trade is a major power, it will then pull its merchant marine if the destination country doesn’t have enough ships to transport the resources and the originator is part of the destination players alliance. Convoy attacks are only conducted vs any countries at war involved in the trade.


I am taking the maximum value possible for Production and Oil:
1. This is 39 Production points thus 39 Merchant Marine needed
2. This is 24 Oil points thus 24 Merchant Marine needed




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:03:19 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 5
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:46 PM   
ncc1701e


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The game correctly calculates that France is lacking 44 Merchant Marine.

For this trade:
39 MM (for Production) + 24 MM (for Oil) = 63 MM needed

France has:
29 MM (total) - 10 MM (in use) = 19 MM available

Gap of 63 MM - 19 MM = 44 MM in the upper left of the below screenshot -44 in green (should be red )




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:10:38 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 6
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:52 PM   
ncc1701e


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Before ending the turn, we can see for France that 29 MM total is in red color and that 29 MM + 44 MM = 73 MM are in use.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:13:28 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 7
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:50:59 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
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Now remember that, in the first screenshot, UK have 205 MM total and 151 in use. Ending my turn and checking the MM used in UK, there is a problem:

151 MM + 44 MM = 195 MM but the game displays 186 MM ???




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:18:16 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 8
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:51:05 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
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Let's restart the Europe 1939 scenario from scratch.

UK have 205 MM total and 151 in use.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:19:33 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 9
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:51:10 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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This time, just creates a trade with the maximum oil value not any production.

For this trade:
24 MM (for Oil) = 24 MM needed

France has:
29 MM (total) - 10 MM (in use) = 19 MM available

Gap of 24 MM - 19 MM = 5 MM in the upper left of the below screenshot -5 in green.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:23:08 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 10
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 6:51:17 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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Ending my turn and checking the MM used in UK, there is another problem:

151 MM + 5 MM = 156 MM but the game displays 147 MM ???

LOL - this is very funny, MM consumption has even been reduced.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/22/2020 7:32:06 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 11
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 7:20:42 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Whats the countdown for? Is the forum going to explode?

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
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Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 12
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 7:43:04 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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To avoid someone to post while I am not done.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 13
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 8:38:10 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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The difference is the multiple. Resources get transported THEN use the economic multiple. Otherwise you would need ever increasing MMs. This way a country like England abstractly represents resources transported to factories.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 14
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 9:06:22 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
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I will ask you to detail your answer and your calculation a little bit more please. Because how could you justify that the United Kingdom ends up using less MM to help France transport oil to them?

Resources get transported THEN use the economic multiple. Okay, the manual says "Each resource point sent requires one merchant marine".

Your calculation seems very simple. And suddenly there is a mystical value that comes out of nowhere.



_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 15
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/22/2020 10:24:48 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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I just tested it myself. It is working properly.

For every printed resource # on the map it uses 1 MM.
On the 1st turn Poland is included in their MM routes.
After the 1st turn it isn't.
The MM's used on the production screen show the current MMs in use this turn.
No matter if I give France resources or not. Anyways I do it the numbers are correct.

The ONLY issue here is that when you cancel a convoy it returns available MMs back to the player and displays the # incorrectly. Which is a bug you found just now. I forgot to limit it to the total possible MMs. Instead it returns all MMs used this turn to the player who's convoy it is.

It is working as intended. I just spend 20m testing it.


_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 16
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/23/2020 6:32:01 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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Poland removal explains. Now it sounds right:
142 MM + 5 MM = 147 MM
142 MM + 44 MM = 186 MM

So there is no economic multiple involved. And indeed, cancelling a convoy displays something wrong. I look forward to the next beta.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 5/23/2020 6:33:40 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 17
RE: 1.00.07: MM calculation problem with naval trade - 5/23/2020 6:41:17 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3108
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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By the way something that you have not planned but when Germany and USSR are trading together using the Baltic convoy route (10 Oil points each turn).
If the German Merchant Marine has been sunk, the USSR will not use its Merchant Marine to help transporting these 10 Oil points.

Not a big deal... I had my worst German game ever and I am still waiting for the surprise of the next turn.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 18
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