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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

 
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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 11:46:51 AM   
mind_messing

 

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Not to bang on the data drum any more, but it was concerns around things like this that makes the comparisons work less straightforward than looking up an internet spreadsheet

https://amp.ft.com/content/77eb7a13-cd26-41dd-9642-616708b43673?__twitter_impression=true

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 181
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 12:55:48 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Funny water chiller story. The company needed to do some work that required turning off the chillers. They kept postponing the work until they got a really cold day to replace the effect of the chillers. Work happens on a weekend. Come Monday morning the load on the mainframes goes up and then suddenly they start to overheat and crash. Turns out in the desire to get that really cold day to do the work, having the chillers off allowed all of the water in them to freeze, so no circulation come Monday am and therefore the overheated mainframes. Talk about unintended consequences.

The AC off after 6pm thing also led to a lot of 'interesting' discussions between myself and Corporate services when my team was routinely working until midnight to get high profile work done.

The joys of working in NYC.

That's funny. Folks don't realize those chillers have to run all the time or they freeze over. No easy way out for you. Just have to wait for it to thaw I guess.


A few decades ago we had the reverse problem up north. The OPEC oil embargo made oil furnaces very expensive to operate so the companies that deal in propane saw their chance and sold a lot of people on propane heating. Each property had a big propane tank outside, as far from the building as possible.
What no one thought of was that propane needs to "boil" in the tank to make the pressure needed to get the gas to the furnace, and at -45ºF or so, propane no longer boils. So when such a day came, people had no heat, their water pipes froze and burst and all kinds of mayhem ensued. Glad my Dad stuck with oil (the tank was in our basement).


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 182
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 1:14:02 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

few decades ago we had the reverse problem up north. The OPEC oil embargo made oil furnaces very expensive to operate so the companies that deal in propane saw their chance and sold a lot of people on propane heating. Each property had a big propane tank outside, as far from the building as possible.
What no one thought of was that propane needs to "boil" in the tank to make the pressure needed to get the gas to the furnace, and at -45ºF or so, propane no longer boils. So when such a day came, people had no heat, their water pipes froze and burst and all kinds of mayhem ensued. Glad my Dad stuck with oil (the tank was in our basement).

Heh, never thought of that. Guess a lot of people didn't :-). We have a choice but we stick with oil. Cost is about the same but the oil companies are local business and they support the boiler, furnace and water heaters. 24x7x365. Something breaks, they are here in an hour. Love those guys

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Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

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Post #: 183
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 4:34:27 PM   
fcooke

 

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data centers are interesting beasts. We had to train people to understand that the fire suppression system would kill you if you didn't get out quick enough. But the number of dumb things I saw over the years was 'entertaining'. Unplugging PBXs, not maintaining battery back-up systems properly. In the end we ended up escorting any contractor who needed to do maintenance in the data center.

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Post #: 184
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 4:41:12 PM   
fcooke

 

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built a new garage last year and heated it from our legacy propane tank (used for the stove and back-up generator). When the propane ran out the whole system basically got an air lock - a complete pain in the bottom. Didn't know about the drawbacks on propane heating. We will be keeping the oil heat for the main house.

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 185
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 8:58:59 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

data centers are interesting beasts. We had to train people to understand that the fire suppression system would kill you if you didn't get out quick enough. But the number of dumb things I saw over the years was 'entertaining'. Unplugging PBXs, not maintaining battery back-up systems properly. In the end we ended up escorting any contractor who needed to do maintenance in the data center.

quote:

data centers are interesting beasts. We had to train people to understand that the fire suppression system would kill you if you didn't get out quick enough. But the number of dumb things I saw over the years was 'entertaining'. Unplugging PBXs, not maintaining battery back-up systems properly. In the end we ended up escorting any contractor who needed to do maintenance in the data center.

One of my data centers is completely locked down. There might be 20 people in an agency of 1800 that have access to it. I have no problems there. Going under the floor? You need a building engineer to kill the pre-action and go under the floor. Hepa micro-filtration, sticky matts in all the double door man traps you need to get in and a 24x7 guard. You could eat off the floor. The best part? It is a full sized floor of about 30,000 square feet and had it's own bathrooms. So I only share a bathroom with 18 other people divided between 24x7 shifts. Of the 20 people with access only 2 are female. The ladies room on that floor is known as "The Princess Room"! People are always trying to get on the access list just for the bathroom rights.
My other 2 data centers have NYPD and FDNY equipment in there so some of their folks have access. F%^king thieves, the lot of them.We have a joke about FDNY fireman or anybody that works for them. If you put one of them in a room with 2 anvils and come back in an hour one of the anvils will be broken and the other missing.

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 6/4/2020 9:00:32 PM >


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Post #: 186
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 9:34:48 PM   
fcooke

 

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It's funny what I was allowed to do as a trainee in a DC vs the restrictions we had in place closer to my retirement......

Also entertaining was how much cable had been placed under the raised floors on the trading floors....the tiles would literally wobble when you walked on them. The electricians made a fair bit of dough toning out old cables so we wouldn't have to add to the pile of copper.

But I learned a bunch about common sense and problem solving.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 187
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 10:30:52 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

It's funny what I was allowed to do as a trainee in a DC vs the restrictions we had in place closer to my retirement......

Also entertaining was how much cable had been placed under the raised floors on the trading floors....the tiles would literally wobble when you walked on them. The electricians made a fair bit of dough toning out old cables so we wouldn't have to add to the pile of copper.

But I learned a bunch about common sense and problem solving.

quote:

It's funny what I was allowed to do as a trainee in a DC vs the restrictions we had in place closer to my retirement......

Also entertaining was how much cable had been placed under the raised floors on the trading floors....the tiles would literally wobble when you walked on them. The electricians made a fair bit of dough toning out old cables so we wouldn't have to add to the pile of copper.

But I learned a bunch about common sense and problem solving.


My data center is in the old NASDAQ data center. There is a trading floor there too. Building is massively overbuilt and is N+4. It was a nice place to sit out Sandy. I could run a good chunk of downtown Brooklyn with our generator plant. As to all that old copper? Well, mostly fiber now but when you decommission something you are required to remove all of your cable and all of your circuits back to the PDU. Rent is not cheap but Brooklyn wasn't Brooklyn when we signed the lease. I'll be retired when the lease is up so I won't have to move all this crap to a co-location in god knows where

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

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Post #: 188
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 10:58:41 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14909
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

data centers are interesting beasts. We had to train people to understand that the fire suppression system would kill you if you didn't get out quick enough. But the number of dumb things I saw over the years was 'entertaining'. Unplugging PBXs, not maintaining battery back-up systems properly. In the end we ended up escorting any contractor who needed to do maintenance in the data center.

One of my data centers is completely locked down. There might be 20 people in an agency of 1800 that have access to it. I have no problems there. Going under the floor? You need a building engineer to kill the pre-action and go under the floor. Hepa micro-filtration, sticky matts in all the double door man traps you need to get in and a 24x7 guard. You could eat off the floor. The best part? It is a full sized floor of about 30,000 square feet and had it's own bathrooms. So I only share a bathroom with 18 other people divided between 24x7 shifts. Of the 20 people with access only 2 are female. The ladies room on that floor is known as "The Princess Room"! People are always trying to get on the access list just for the bathroom rights.

Wait - whaaat? You crawled under the floor to get access to the women's washroom? Sneaky!






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 189
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 11:36:48 PM   
fcooke

 

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It is interesting how people approach things sometimes. Our head of Telco was a former bird Col in the services. He was all about command and control. I figured out that I needed him to adopt my ideas because he thought they were his ideas. Worked well enough. But he had his teams over-engineer everything. Four double fibers on 4 different paths to our NJ DC. The DC eventually went down. He was really pleased that the network was in place. What he never figured out was that it didn't matter if you had a platinum grade network if the servers were not up. Not much point in having a 4N network if the DC is only 2N.

He also had some serious sexism issues but that discussion might be considered political so I will leave it be. But after he got canned and called me for help finding a job I was, shall we say, less than helpful.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 190
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/4/2020 11:42:40 PM   
fcooke

 

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No need to go under the floor.....I got off a flight in Spain once and got confused between the ladies and gents restrooms.....really not my best moment

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 191
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 2:59:39 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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From: Seoul, Korea
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Great stories from you network guys.

In Korea, we may be a victim of our success. Political and health leaders here have gotten some pretty big heads with all the accolades coming in from the international media. That has led them to go into reputation-protection mode and be overly cautious in the opinion of a fair number of friends of mine (mostly expat businessmen, journalists, diplomats, etc.).

There still is a 14-day quarantine for all people arriving from elsewhere, which means the country you travel to may be wide open, but you still have the 14-day house arrest upon your return. There's no talk at all of changing that. So the theme building is "Korea won the war, but they lost the peace." Here's a good piece going over some of these issues: Korea’s viral travel restrictions stir ire and woe

Cheers,
CB

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Post #: 192
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 12:08:44 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?

Be on the lookout for the latest side effect of the virus, the often rumored neurological effects. Here in the US, many states has been affected by mindless mobs roaming the streets smashing things and taking anything they can get their hands on.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 193
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 12:53:24 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?

Be on the lookout for the latest side effect of the virus, the often rumored neurological effects. Here in the US, many states has been affected by mindless mobs roaming the streets smashing things and taking anything they can get their hands on.




Joined 2 protest marches in NYC this week and saw none of this. Just thousands and thousands of peaceful protestors. Yes, there was looting at night, but this was opportunistic. The vast , vast majority is peaceful protest in the largest numbers I've ever seen. I'm sure you will hear the "few bad apples" coming from many quarters. As Chris Rock says "Some jobs can't have bad apples") but I can only tell you what I experienced with my Red Wing boots on the ground. Peaceful protest. Politics not intended, only sharing my personal observations.

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 6/5/2020 12:54:04 PM >


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Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

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Post #: 194
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 2:41:52 PM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?

Be on the lookout for the latest side effect of the virus, the often rumored neurological effects. Here in the US, many states has been affected by mindless mobs roaming the streets smashing things and taking anything they can get their hands on.




Joined 2 protest marches in NYC this week and saw none of this. Just thousands and thousands of peaceful protestors. Yes, there was looting at night, but this was opportunistic. The vast , vast majority is peaceful protest in the largest numbers I've ever seen. I'm sure you will hear the "few bad apples" coming from many quarters. As Chris Rock says "Some jobs can't have bad apples") but I can only tell you what I experienced with my Red Wing boots on the ground. Peaceful protest. Politics not intended, only sharing my personal observations.

The social psychologists suggest that this behaviour stems from a feeling of entitlement because the group feel they have been held down by society so they are entitled to try and redress the difference by taking stuff, and to express their frustration by causing damage. Trouble is, it's a momentary excitement that they might feel like making a habit of and when they get arrested they end up in a worse condition than they started. Sad, really.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 195
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 7:33:23 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?

Be on the lookout for the latest side effect of the virus, the often rumored neurological effects. Here in the US, many states has been affected by mindless mobs roaming the streets smashing things and taking anything they can get their hands on.




Joined 2 protest marches in NYC this week and saw none of this. Just thousands and thousands of peaceful protestors. Yes, there was looting at night, but this was opportunistic. The vast , vast majority is peaceful protest in the largest numbers I've ever seen. I'm sure you will hear the "few bad apples" coming from many quarters. As Chris Rock says "Some jobs can't have bad apples") but I can only tell you what I experienced with my Red Wing boots on the ground. Peaceful protest. Politics not intended, only sharing my personal observations.

The social psychologists suggest that this behaviour stems from a feeling of entitlement because the group feel they have been held down by society so they are entitled to try and redress the difference by taking stuff, and to express their frustration by causing damage. Trouble is, it's a momentary excitement that they might feel like making a habit of and when they get arrested they end up in a worse condition than they started. Sad, really.


Occam's Razor is that it's not entitlement or anything like it: simply opportunity. Stores are closed all day every day, police are busy elsewhere, a handful of thieves decide to take advantage. Seems pretty obvious, and otherwise completely unrelated to anything else happening.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 196
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 9:44:14 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?

Be on the lookout for the latest side effect of the virus, the often rumored neurological effects. Here in the US, many states has been affected by mindless mobs roaming the streets smashing things and taking anything they can get their hands on.




Joined 2 protest marches in NYC this week and saw none of this. Just thousands and thousands of peaceful protestors. Yes, there was looting at night, but this was opportunistic. The vast , vast majority is peaceful protest in the largest numbers I've ever seen. I'm sure you will hear the "few bad apples" coming from many quarters. As Chris Rock says "Some jobs can't have bad apples") but I can only tell you what I experienced with my Red Wing boots on the ground. Peaceful protest. Politics not intended, only sharing my personal observations.

The social psychologists suggest that this behaviour stems from a feeling of entitlement because the group feel they have been held down by society so they are entitled to try and redress the difference by taking stuff, and to express their frustration by causing damage. Trouble is, it's a momentary excitement that they might feel like making a habit of and when they get arrested they end up in a worse condition than they started. Sad, really.


Occam's Razor is that it's not entitlement or anything like it: simply opportunity. Stores are closed all day every day, police are busy elsewhere, a handful of thieves decide to take advantage. Seems pretty obvious, and otherwise completely unrelated to anything else happening.

Much of brick and mortar retail was close to it's last gasp before Covid, this will help hasten it's end. Lots of people figured out how to get most of what they want delivered and retail won't recover. Nobody is sure what the new normal will be but it will have a lot less stores. I've heard from smart people that the reason you haven't sen too many bankruptcies yet is because store inventory is part of the asset and those liquidation sales help lessen the restructuring impact. You go bankrupt when you can't liquidate your remaining assets and you pretty much loose them. Expect lots of big retail bankruptcies this year. The world has moved on

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

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Post #: 197
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/5/2020 10:44:01 PM   
fcooke

 

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I'm good buying most things online. But things like furniture (I want to test the comfort of my bottom on the couch), I still like to see in person. But I agree, traditional retail is going to a bad place. Folks will have to come up with unique 'experiences' to survive in the brick and mortar world.....

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 198
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/6/2020 6:08:01 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Much of brick and mortar retail was close to it's last gasp before Covid, this will help hasten it's end. Lots of people figured out how to get most of what they want delivered and retail won't recover. Nobody is sure what the new normal will be but it will have a lot less stores. I've heard from smart people that the reason you haven't sen too many bankruptcies yet is because store inventory is part of the asset and those liquidation sales help lessen the restructuring impact. You go bankrupt when you can't liquidate your remaining assets and you pretty much loose them. Expect lots of big retail bankruptcies this year. The world has moved on


I disagree on the conclusion that the world has moved on. Online, direct-to-consumer lowered the barrier to entry into markets, but . You can see the importance of in-person retail in Casper's plans (the successful online mattress company) to open 200 B&M stores (among others) after previously partnering with Target for in-store retail. Link: https://www.retaildive.com/news/mapping-the-physical-locations-of-dtc-brands/565597/

Buy online, pick up in-store is also a thing that is going on.

That's not to say that there aren't lots of small B&M businesses that will go belly-up - unless Congress and the President can agree to swoop in with an enhanced small business protection program, like covering their business's expenses so that when allowed to open back up they can just call their employees back in and start operating again. This is technically possible.

Also some larger chains, such as J.C. Penney, that are going to go bankrupt or already have (like JCP). That said, bankruptcy is sometimes just a restructuring rather than The End.

Realistically, the B&M that will stay in business will be the B&M's with meaningful in-person interaction (handmade stuff, like nice furniture, or other things that you just can't get in the same way online), and the stuff that you need a physical location for (restaurants, services like tailoring, printing, etc.). The general purpose stores with replaceable products will go away. And that's fine in a zoomed-out view (obviously, there are person-scaled tragedies in that macro story). Further, that will always be a segment of the population that wants to feel it before they buy it, even if there are generous online return policies - which still serve to either make the equivalent products more expensive or more inconvenient.

I guess if we call traditional retail those that sell replaceable products, then sure - and honestly, if that killed some of the market power of the Walmarts and Targets of the world in favor of smaller scale businesses, I'm really good with that.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 199
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/7/2020 5:47:30 AM   
obvert


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This was an amazing read. How many have been dealing with this kind of stuff who aren’t counted anywhere?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/06/ive-been-ill-for-months-but-i-still-dont-know-if-it-is-covid-19?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

_____________________________

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Post #: 200
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/7/2020 6:39:21 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

This was an amazing read. How many have been dealing with this kind of stuff who aren’t counted anywhere?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/06/ive-been-ill-for-months-but-i-still-dont-know-if-it-is-covid-19?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I read an article today about "long haulers" - people who have COVID symptoms for months, and may even test negative because the virus isn't active in their swabbed area but is active in a "reservoir organ."

My mother may be one of those. She was on day 12 the other day and still running a daily fever of just under 100. She also tested negative, but the test was done on day 10 or 11 of symptoms and there isn't really anything else that she could have that would have her with a fever for that length of time.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 201
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/7/2020 4:08:50 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

This was an amazing read. How many have been dealing with this kind of stuff who aren’t counted anywhere?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/06/ive-been-ill-for-months-but-i-still-dont-know-if-it-is-covid-19?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I read an article today about "long haulers" - people who have COVID symptoms for months, and may even test negative because the virus isn't active in their swabbed area but is active in a "reservoir organ."

My mother may be one of those. She was on day 12 the other day and still running a daily fever of just under 100. She also tested negative, but the test was done on day 10 or 11 of symptoms and there isn't really anything else that she could have that would have her with a fever for that length of time.

Watching what's offered on TV constantly will make you pretty ill ....

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 202
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/7/2020 4:22:21 PM   
fcooke

 

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I pretty much avoid the TV at all costs these days, though my wife seems addicted. Have been catching up on movies and documentaries on the PC. Watched one on the worst US maritime disaster ever - the loss of the riverboat Sultana. Bringing home Union POWs at the end of the Civil War. The guys were in rough shape from captivity in places like Andersonville. The ships boilers exploded at 2am and the paddle wheeler caught fire. Something like 1200 people were lost (records were, shall we say, not so great). I had never heard of the event before. Seems like there was a bunch of mismanagement and bribery involved in the whole fiasco. Feel horrible that these guys fought, were captured, were POWs, and many dying on their way home in the end. That's a lot of bad luck.

But at least I learned some history and didn't have to watch any of the current stuff being broadcast on TV.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 203
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/8/2020 1:38:23 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2072
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From: Seoul, Korea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?



Restrictions will surely stop the spread, but to move forward with international commerce I think relatively safe nations should establish bilateral agreements to let their residents (not just citizens, of course, thinking of myself) travel without undergoing 14-day quarantines. Taiwan, Vietnam, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Japan and maybe a few others in this region would make sense for Korea to sign agreements with. Who knows when a vaccine will be available?

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

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Post #: 204
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/8/2020 1:58:08 AM   
fcooke

 

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From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
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Agreed. 14 day quarantines will kill travel. And I guess if you want to be completely safe you could never speak to another human again or leave your your house. Hopefully that statement is not considered political. May never be a vaccine. But hopefully there is. But much like the flu vaccine - they may never get it right every year.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 205
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/8/2020 2:59:42 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14909
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Aren't travel restrictions the one thing that for sure prevent the spread?



Restrictions will surely stop the spread, but to move forward with international commerce I think relatively safe nations should establish bilateral agreements to let their residents (not just citizens, of course, thinking of myself) travel without undergoing 14-day quarantines. Taiwan, Vietnam, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Japan and maybe a few others in this region would make sense for Korea to sign agreements with. Who knows when a vaccine will be available?

Cheers,
CB

My Dr. son-in-law repeated what has been said here - a fully effective vaccine has never been produced and thoroughly tested and approved in less than five years. Since he has been in charge of clinical trials for major hospitals, he knows these things.

So we come to the conundrum - how much risk to accept - and that will vary from person to person. I am retired and financially secure so I can wait longer than workers with no savings. It is not a political question, it is a problem that requires flexible solutions to work for the greatest number of people. As long as we are prepared to deal quickly and efficiently with new outbreaks, we should be OK with opening up now with the distancing kept in mind wherever possible.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 206
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/8/2020 5:27:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I'm continuing to watch the numbers as avidly as ever. It's been a fascinating journey - one that really seemed to begin in late January. Someday I hope to read in depth, intelligent analysis of how outbreaks occurred at various funerals, choir practices, etc.

Yesterday, my church had indoor services for the first time since the first Sunday in March. The previous four weeks, we'd had outdoor services with most people seated in cars but perhaps 30 in chairs on the lawn. I was comfortable with that, but coming indoors raises the stakes, given the number of outbreaks have been associated with choir practices and similar events. Seats were well spaced, but much of our congregation is 50 and older. Surprisingly few wore masks - less than 10%. The service was well attended, which also came as a bit of a surprise.

The thought of an outbreak beginning right here is sobering. It would be a disastrous to have one start here because of something we did. I'll be watching carefully over the next few weeks to see how things go. I think I'll also spend an hour moving chairs a bit further apart. Overall, though, it was great to be together again and there's a strong sense that this was a prudent next step. But there's always that "what if?"

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 207
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/8/2020 10:19:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
On Sunday, 16 states had no reported mortality. Today, at the moment, 17 haven't. That's noteworthy, because a few weeks ago, only a handful of states didn't have a reported death on any given day.

The numbers are down considerably but no doubt they'll continue to ocillate. For one thing, US mortality numbers always dip over the weekend because so many county health offices are closed. Then, there's a compensating rise early in the workweek.

All of this is interesting because so many states have relaxed countermeasures (to screaming headlines awhile back) and there have been so many mass gatherings (Lake of the Ozarks, protests, beaches, parks, etc.). To this point, the huge increase in outdoor activity doesn't seem to have resulted in spikes. Again, there is the strong sense that outdoor transmission is rare. It makes me wonder - if there aren't proven spikes resulting from the mass gatherings outside, does that mean sporting events with partial (or even full) attendance is possible/prudent?


Indoor spreading continues to be an issue. Our local courthouse is closed because of a rash of positives there.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 208
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/9/2020 5:43:29 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2072
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline
Our pastor and presumably the board divided things up into four 40-minute services (from a one-hour service pre-Covid) for better distancing and there are some key rules, like you must wear masks other than when taking communion. I also don't think there are any hymnals, as singing is a known vector. We actually haven't gone since one of the rules is "don't come if you've been in a hospital in the last 14 days," and, well, the missus works in a hospital. The pastor is still doing video-recorded services each week so no worries (I've even contributed a bit to the readings).

CR: I'd be a bit worried on the lack of masks at your indoor services. Would it work to hand them out at the door?

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 209
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 6/9/2020 3:20:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Yeah, complimentary masks and sanitizer are available.

While most food service staff are wearing masks, probably less than 10% of patrons are. Except where required, they are infrequently used and, then, mostly by the elderly. It's rare to see a younger person wearing one. Once in a blue moon, a young mom and her children will be wearing them.

Last week, a lady who I've known for years stopped to chat in the food court. She's a gracious, pleasant, soft-spoken person. Her mask made it basically impossible to understand her.

My wife wears a mask at work and hates it, as do her co-workers. In part, this is due to the heat and high humidity. She feels like wearing them has potential health risks that outweigh the benefits. If she could, she'd opt out. Given southern heat and humidity, I empathize with her.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 210
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