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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

 
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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/14/2020 11:16:34 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14026
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dante Fierro

Funny how often COVID-19 gets steered into a political argument. As if people here have an agenda whether they want to admit to it or not. And who gets left out, all the ordinary working Americans who have to deal with this crisis on a first hand basis.

I think this is rooted in the psychological "need" to be proven correct in one's beliefs (because security comes from being able to project what will happen next). When our beliefs start to dismiss objective data, we create a "faith", and that is very hard to abandon. Doing so would mean admitting we were wrong about a long list of things that we constructed/incorporated as part of the faith.

My own faith seems to be that skeptics, who demand objective evidence about new info, are more flexible in creating/abandoning various models of what is happening. I freely admit to being wrong about a great many things during my lifetime and I am the better for changing my mind. But like all of us, I am a (piece of?) work in progress!


I like your approach. I was forced in some ways to adopt something similar from a young age. It's not "better" but it might be more flexible in making adjustments to unforeseen events and being able to learn form mistaken assumptions. During times of stability it can also be unsettling to not have the kind of guidance, comfort and understanding that faith allows.



< Message edited by obvert -- 7/14/2020 11:33:11 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 751
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/14/2020 11:49:10 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 1934
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
Yeah it is bad, actually really bad all over the world too. Idk seem like wrath of god going on over in China with all that storms, quakes, etc. If that flooding keep going, it will split China in two.

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Post #: 752
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 9:02:19 AM   
JohnDillworth


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Joined: 3/19/2009
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And now Hospitals have been told to report coronavirus-related information directly to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), not the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), under new instructions from the Trump administration. So the distortion of numbers will now become official policy. First it started with the states fudging numbers now the fudging will come directly from the White House. https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-faqs-hospitals-hospital-laboratory-acute-care-facility-data-reporting.pdf

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Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

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Post #: 753
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 9:58:49 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14026
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

And now Hospitals have been told to report coronavirus-related information directly to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), not the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), under new instructions from the Trump administration. So the distortion of numbers will now become official policy. First it started with the states fudging numbers now the fudging will come directly from the White House. https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-faqs-hospitals-hospital-laboratory-acute-care-facility-data-reporting.pdf


This will make it hard to be accurately informed but each state must continue to act on its own and in conjunction with neighbouring states. At this point there is no real mitigation strategy anyway so the numbers aren't doing anything useful other than to inform scientists and local policy makers.

Information will get out regardless I think, and it's already quite obvious what is happening.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 754
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 12:03:21 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

And now Hospitals have been told to report coronavirus-related information directly to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), not the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), under new instructions from the Trump administration. So the distortion of numbers will now become official policy. First it started with the states fudging numbers now the fudging will come directly from the White House. https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/covid-19-faqs-hospitals-hospital-laboratory-acute-care-facility-data-reporting.pdf


This will make it hard to be accurately informed but each state must continue to act on its own and in conjunction with neighbouring states. At this point there is no real mitigation strategy anyway so the numbers aren't doing anything useful other than to inform scientists and local policy makers.

Information will get out regardless I think, and it's already quite obvious what is happening.



The Center for Disease Control was created 75 years ago to just that. Track and report on infectious diseases. To remove them now, in the middle of a pandemic, for purely political reasons, is insane. Simply put, many people will now die because of vanity.

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 755
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 12:05:24 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Joined: 3/19/2009
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Congratulations Governor DeSantis of Florida! You are doing a great job! So much better than Governor Cuomo. Your state has now shattered the record for most new infections in a day. Well done Florida! https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/12/890216415/florida-smashes-u-s-state-record-of-daily-new-cases-more-than-15-200

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

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Post #: 756
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 2:15:38 PM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4638
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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

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Post #: 757
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 2:34:22 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 758
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 2:38:01 PM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4638
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

_____________________________


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 759
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 3:11:48 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14952
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dante Fierro

Funny how often COVID-19 gets steered into a political argument. As if people here have an agenda whether they want to admit to it or not. And who gets left out, all the ordinary working Americans who have to deal with this crisis on a first hand basis.

I think this is rooted in the psychological "need" to be proven correct in one's beliefs (because security comes from being able to project what will happen next). When our beliefs start to dismiss objective data, we create a "faith", and that is very hard to abandon. Doing so would mean admitting we were wrong about a long list of things that we constructed/incorporated as part of the faith.

My own faith seems to be that skeptics, who demand objective evidence about new info, are more flexible in creating/abandoning various models of what is happening. I freely admit to being wrong about a great many things during my lifetime and I am the better for changing my mind. But like all of us, I am a (piece of?) work in progress!


I like your approach. I was forced in some ways to adopt something similar from a young age. It's not "better" but it might be more flexible in making adjustments to unforeseen events and being able to learn form mistaken assumptions. During times of stability it can also be unsettling to not have the kind of guidance, comfort and understanding that faith allows.


I was not addressing this to religious faith, if that is your comfort source you refer to. I was referring to our own personal models of how the world works that include sets of assumptions that don't fit with bona fide data, well sourced and verified. To ignore this requires us to put faith in some other source that supports out assumptions.

This could describe the back-and-forth about which news outlet can be trusted and which cannot. No outlet will be completely error free in every detail, but over months and years they build reputations for whether they are following good journalism practices. To me, one of the tip-offs is that good news reporting acknowledges their errors and announces a correction while the poor ones change the subject to take attention away from their previous assertions.

Either way, there is too much reporting of opinions of "experts" (which can be found to support any position the news outlet wants) rather than the presentation of the objective facts with all the different interpretations one could make of the data. I think part of the reason news outlets do this is because they realize there is a large segment of the population who do not have the critical thinking skills to decide which interpretation is likely most accurate, so they present their own bias. It seems to earn them more income that way.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 760
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 6:11:33 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Congratulations Governor DeSantis of Florida! You are doing a great job! So much better than Governor Cuomo. Your state has now shattered the record for most new infections in a day. Well done Florida! https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/12/890216415/florida-smashes-u-s-state-record-of-daily-new-cases-more-than-15-200


But is Florida forcing nursing homes to take Covid-19 patients without testing them or even informing the nursing homes who has Covid-19?

Or are these younger people who can more easily fight off the infection and help develop herd immunity?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 761
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 6:47:50 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 762
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 6:51:33 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Congratulations Governor DeSantis of Florida! You are doing a great job! So much better than Governor Cuomo. Your state has now shattered the record for most new infections in a day. Well done Florida! https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/12/890216415/florida-smashes-u-s-state-record-of-daily-new-cases-more-than-15-200


But is Florida forcing nursing homes to take Covid-19 patients without testing them or even informing the nursing homes who has Covid-19?

Or are these younger people who can more easily fight off the infection and help develop herd immunity?

I don't know but in New York nursing homes and assisted living sites accounted for 20% of the fatalities and in Florida they account for 50% of fatalities. While there is no excuse for this New Yorks 20% is understandable since this was all new to everybody and they adjusted. Florida at or near 50% according to the Miami Herald seems cruel considering they had so much more time to deal with this

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 763
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 6:52:30 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 764
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 6:56:30 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14952
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.

There is lots of contradictory information out there. Each of us must choose which info is more credible. JohnD made his choice based on his experience and judgement. It's OK if you continue to believe the linked article instead, you have your own judgement to make.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 765
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 7:05:27 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.

Perhaps but since this is life or death I suspect the health experts that run Floridas website, (which actually has a history of under-reporting cases), the CDC and Johns Hopkins might be a better resource than a right wing blog with no journalistic creditably much less medical or science credentials. Sure, you can find someone that says whatever you want to hear but it doesn't make it a fact or even plausible. There are people that claim the earth is flat. One can claim that , but that claim doesn't not carry the same weight as someone that knows the world is round. The world is still round. Gravity is only a theory but I'd be careful testing that theory

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 766
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 7:27:53 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.

Perhaps but since this is life or death I suspect the health experts that run Floridas website, (which actually has a history of under-reporting cases), the CDC and Johns Hopkins might be a better resource than a right wing blog with no journalistic creditably much less medical or science credentials. Sure, you can find someone that says whatever you want to hear but it doesn't make it a fact or even plausible. There are people that claim the earth is flat. One can claim that , but that claim doesn't not carry the same weight as someone that knows the world is round. The world is still round. Gravity is only a theory but I'd be careful testing that theory


I remember when a newspaper which some called a "gossip rag" came out with a news story that some people did not think was credible otherwise a "regular newspaper or news media would have reported it. It turns out that the National Enquirer was correct.

This is not like comparing the shape of the earth which is actually a spheroid, not round.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 767
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 8:04:52 PM   
Dante Fierro


Posts: 299
Joined: 2/23/2012
From: Idaho Falls
Status: offline
'Covid Party' To Expose 'Hoax' Turns Deadly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG2P7dmpzNk&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=RYK4kHRdmCXjQyen%3A6

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 768
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 8:13:19 PM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4638
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


So if it is from a right wing news source it is wrong but if from a left wing news source it would be right. Got it.

_____________________________


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 769
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 9:38:51 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 879
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
All of this is non political, huh?. Ok. I get it. After all, I am, in your eyes, just a Marine who doesn't give a crap about the United States of America. All Marines should be so proud of your pointing out that we just need to have another drink.

_____________________________

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We don't take kindly to idjits.

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Post #: 770
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 9:42:19 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

All of this is non political, huh?. Ok. I get it. After all, I am, in your eyes, just a Marine who doesn't give a crap about the United States of America. All Marines should be so proud of your pointing out that we just need to have another drink.


Just one? Have more than that! After all, the US Marines were started in Boston bars!

Semper Fi!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 771
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 9:44:11 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


So if it is from a right wing news source it is wrong but if from a left wing news source it would be right. Got it.


This reminds me of someone who would study case law for court. If there was any case law that was against him, he would ignore it. He would get shredded in court and lose. I am sure that someone with legal training can back me up on that.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 772
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/15/2020 11:31:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14952
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.

Perhaps but since this is life or death I suspect the health experts that run Floridas website, (which actually has a history of under-reporting cases), the CDC and Johns Hopkins might be a better resource than a right wing blog with no journalistic creditably much less medical or science credentials. Sure, you can find someone that says whatever you want to hear but it doesn't make it a fact or even plausible. There are people that claim the earth is flat. One can claim that , but that claim doesn't not carry the same weight as someone that knows the world is round. The world is still round. Gravity is only a theory but I'd be careful testing that theory


I remember when a newspaper which some called a "gossip rag" came out with a news story that some people did not think was credible otherwise a "regular newspaper or news media would have reported it. It turns out that the National Enquirer was correct.

This is not like comparing the shape of the earth which is actually a spheroid, not round.

Even a dead clock is right twice a day. NE's track record overall is pretty dismal - at least for those of us who have not been probed by aliens. All media have the opportunity to do excellent journalism, but many go for sensational stories that are not well supported by facts. I don't care which "wing" they align with, I just want good info to guide my world view.

For the record, when the Canada-US Free Trade pact was signed I thought it would be disastrous because I believed in protection of Canadian jobs. But over the years it became clear that removal of barriers stimulated more overall trade, and the rapid exchange of money is what creates more incomes and therefore more national wealth. I now believe in international trade over protectionism. Does that make me right wing or left wing? Neither! It makes me someone who sees trade as a way to improve conditions for all peoples.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 773
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 5:28:57 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14026
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.


It's usually not about liking or not liking. It's about trusting or not trusting. I've tried to find somewhat objective fact-checking sites that will let me know of inherent bias and unreliable reporting by sources at both extremes since this crisis began. This site has not passed the fact check.

In addition this is just about reporting test percentage rates, and is not contesting the actual number of positive tests. So it doesn't make me "wonder what is what" at all since the percentage testing rates are just an indicator of prevalence in various communities and are not nearly as important as the actual case numbers.

So really this is just a human interest story about how someone didn't think to compile total testing percentage numbers before calculating percentage positive.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


So if it is from a right wing news source it is wrong but if from a left wing news source it would be right. Got it.


Tools like this spell out the sometimes hidden or veiled attempts to create bias through various logical fallacies, inflated and misleading language and just plain inaccurate reporting. It's good to look at this for both sides. Have a go!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-news/

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 7/16/2020 5:49:54 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 774
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 6:38:33 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Things like this make you wonder what is what: https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Are you suggesting that the State Of Florida's official site is over reporting data? Because that is where the number came from.


I am not "suggesting" anything, the article clearly states that a lab in Florida overstated its covid positivity rate. I do wonder how many other labs did the same and where else in the USA it occurred.

yes, but the source is a right wing news aggregator so I'm not sure that is as credible as the CDC or Johns Hopkins


Just because you do not like the source does not mean that it is incorrect.


It's usually not about liking or not liking. It's about trusting or not trusting. I've tried to find somewhat objective fact-checking sites that will let me know of inherent bias and unreliable reporting by sources at both extremes since this crisis began. This site has not passed the fact check.

In addition this is just about reporting test percentage rates, and is not contesting the actual number of positive tests. So it doesn't make me "wonder what is what" at all since the percentage testing rates are just an indicator of prevalence in various communities and are not nearly as important as the actual case numbers.

So really this is just a human interest story about how someone didn't think to compile total testing percentage numbers before calculating percentage positive.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


So if it is from a right wing news source it is wrong but if from a left wing news source it would be right. Got it.


Tools like this spell out the sometimes hidden or veiled attempts to create bias through various logical fallacies, inflated and misleading language and just plain inaccurate reporting. It's good to look at this for both sides. Have a go!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-news/


Some of those "fact check sites" are also biased.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 775
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 12:03:41 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
More number fudging from Florida. Positive tests only count once and negative people that keep testing get counted as negative as many times as they take the tests. This is exactly the kind of chicanery you get when you put partisan lawyers in charge of a science problem https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-positivity-rate-florida-paints-rosy-pandemic-picture-20200715-cpwwngaefzdnpitbs7buh7zsei-story.html

_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 776
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 1:15:55 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

More number fudging from Florida. Positive tests only count once and negative people that keep testing get counted as negative as many times as they take the tests. This is exactly the kind of chicanery you get when you put partisan lawyers in charge of a science problem https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-positivity-rate-florida-paints-rosy-pandemic-picture-20200715-cpwwngaefzdnpitbs7buh7zsei-story.html


It has been done that way all over, including New York. They are not counting the people who test negative, just the number of tests. So that number fudging includes New York in the chicanery.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 777
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 3:37:11 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3061
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

More number fudging from Florida. Positive tests only count once and negative people that keep testing get counted as negative as many times as they take the tests. This is exactly the kind of chicanery you get when you put partisan lawyers in charge of a science problem https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-positivity-rate-florida-paints-rosy-pandemic-picture-20200715-cpwwngaefzdnpitbs7buh7zsei-story.html


It has been done that way all over, including New York. They are not counting the people who test negative, just the number of tests. So that number fudging includes New York in the chicanery.



It's a shame there is no national standard on this. This each state choosing their own adventure is really working out well. Record cases, record infections, record hospitalizations, record death. 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the death. If only we had a Federal body or Center for disease control or a world renowned and respected expert on infectious disease that graduated first in his class from Columbia to lead us through this. If only we had a couple of States that have successfully flattened the curve to copy from. Too bad we don't have any of these things. At least Disney is open. Lets just keep on doing what we are doing and see how that works out for us? How is that going so far? But hey, Freedom!

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 7/16/2020 3:41:25 PM >


_____________________________

Art comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 778
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 3:46:14 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6642
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

More number fudging from Florida. Positive tests only count once and negative people that keep testing get counted as negative as many times as they take the tests. This is exactly the kind of chicanery you get when you put partisan lawyers in charge of a science problem https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-positivity-rate-florida-paints-rosy-pandemic-picture-20200715-cpwwngaefzdnpitbs7buh7zsei-story.html


It has been done that way all over, including New York. They are not counting the people who test negative, just the number of tests. So that number fudging includes New York in the chicanery.



It's a shame there is no national standard on this. This each state choosing their own adventure is really working out well. Record cases, record infections, record hospitalizations, record death. 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the death. If only we had a Federal body or Center for disease control or a world renowned and respected expert on infectious disease that graduated first in his class from Columbia to lead us through this. If only we had a couple of States that have successfully flattened the curve to copy from. Too bad we don't have any of these things. At least Disney is open. Lets just keep on doing what we are doing and see how that works out for us? How is that going so far? But hey, Freedom!


Without freedom, life is not worth living.

So many deaths from states like New York forcing nursing homes to take Covid-19 positive patients and put them into nursing homes with the most vulnerable people.

How come you never respond to my questions? Can't answer them or are you to embarrassed to answer them?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 779
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/16/2020 4:50:37 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 730
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
Folks - the tone of this thread is going in a negative direction and I fear will be shut down unless people get a little more polite.

As for news left/right whatever. I have always found the BBC and Reuters to be the most balanced.

Regards,
Frank

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 780
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