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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

 
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RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 12:25:29 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 661
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 12:59:13 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15441
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

It took the United States 100 days to reach 1 Million Covid cases. It too only 43 days to hit 2 million cases. We just hit 3 million. It took 17 days to go from 2 million to 3 million. The rate of infection is accelerating


You are reporting known cases only. How many cases were there that resolved themselves that weren't known?

Probably lots but that is the common tracking metric we have.

Yesterday new cases reported as follows:
Norway: 10
Denmark: 11
Sweden: 57
Germany: 298
U.S.: 55,442


Yes, the US has a lot more testing capabilities and are using them.

Testing is up 37% and infections are up 152% So more testing is not the problem. more infections is the problem. Infections are outpacing testing by a huge margin. 37% more testing should result in 37% more infections found if your theory is correct.

Deaths are staring to catch up with cases. Arizona and Louisiana are seeing district upticks, Texas reported a new record for deaths today. 12 states have record hospitalizations. Must be more testing causing record hospitalizations and deaths. Yup, testing is causing record death

Just to muddy the waters some more, it is not clear if all the deaths are being counted properly. Apparently in Houston, there has been a sudden increase in the number of emergency call cases where the ambulance paramedics find the victim already dead at home. Some of these were tested and proved to be COVID19 positive. This same thing happened during NYC's peak infections, people delayed too long seeking treatment.

Where it gets murky is that many states are getting their death data from hospitals and not counting those who never make it to hospital. This should be easy to fix by gathering the stats for out-of-hospital fatalities, but leaders don't want to do things that show how bad things really are. We all know what the "right thing" is for this situation, but so few seem to have the fortitude to do it.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 662
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 1:07:48 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:


Just to muddy the waters some more, it is not clear if all the deaths are being counted properly. Apparently in Houston, there has been a sudden increase in the number of emergency call cases where the ambulance paramedics find the victim already dead at home. Some of these were tested and proved to be COVID19 positive. This same thing happened during NYC's peak infections, people delayed too long seeking treatment.

Where it gets murky is that many states are getting their death data from hospitals and not counting those who never make it to hospital. This should be easy to fix by gathering the stats for out-of-hospital fatalities, but leaders don't want to do things that show how bad things really are. We all know what the "right thing" is for this situation, but so few seem to have the fortitude to do it.


That comes back to the whole issue of where you draw the line between somebody that dies 'with CV19' and somebody that dies 'of CV19'. I'll hold my hand up as somebody who is by nature cynical. I wouldn't be surprised if significant numbers of deaths aren't being counted in the CV19 figures as they are now being put down to the underlying health condition instead. That is just my speculation - we'll get a better idea as the excess deaths statistics become available.

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 7/9/2020 1:08:11 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 663
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 2:03:53 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2131
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.


Sammy: Excellent analysis. That puts into words more or less what I've been thinking for a while now.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 664
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 3:23:24 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9206
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public

Well, everyone already knows that Lysol works, so the EPA can be added to the list of official bodies that are really doing nothing to actually help the public.

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 665
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 3:25:52 AM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 862
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.


I think it's about how you present the information and the logic. For America, we have a sharply divided political message with the Republican leaders giving one message and the Democrat leaders another. I believe that if the White House, on Day one, would have maintained a nation-wide message similar to what most of Europe, S. Korea, and Canada did, our infectious numbers would be lower right now.

I'm in California and most people, regardless of politics, are wearing masks. And for those people that walk around in the stores without a mask, they are mostly of the opinion that it's their "right" not to wear a mask. For those people that are wearing masks, the average opinion is that if we all wear masks we are protecting each other as well as ourselves since we *know* that any of us could have and be a super-spreader for a good week or so before feeling/showing any symptoms.

I believe that if we'd started the whole pandemic shelter-in-place and wear-a-mask message from a national we-are-all-in-this-together point of view we'd be good right now. Instead, with some counties following direction from our governor and other counties fighting the state directives, all we are doing is playing a shell game and trying to figure out which cup has the ball in it. And that's the same on a larger scale with some states trying to open slowly and other states being much less restrictive. Here in America, we are a divided house.

I'd say our local media is also not helping matters much as they flit like butterflies from one juicy story to the next while pandering to the drama and gossip by stoking comments from our different governors, Faucci, and Trump.

At this stage here in America, I'm not sure we can put the cat back into the bag.

< Message edited by durnedwolf -- 7/9/2020 3:30:30 AM >


_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 666
RE: Totally brain damaged - 7/9/2020 3:35:16 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9206
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf
Man - this stuff just keeps on giving...
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/scientists-warn-of-potential-brain-damage-linked-to-covid-19

Yes, I have also reported this a couple times. Widespread confusion, impaired consciousness, uncoordinated muscle movements, altered mental state. Another recent local example:

Brain Damaged Baltimorons tear down Columbus statue, toss it into harbor

https://www.foxnews.com/us/baltimore-rioters-tear-down-columbus-statue-toss-it-into-harbor-reports

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/9/2020 3:36:44 AM >

(in reply to durnedwolf)
Post #: 667
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 3:53:16 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.


I think it's about how you present the information and the logic. For America, we have a sharply divided political message with the Republican leaders giving one message and the Democrat leaders another. I believe that if the White House, on Day one, would have maintained a nation-wide message similar to what most of Europe, S. Korea, and Canada did, our infectious numbers would be lower right now.

I'm in California and most people, regardless of politics, are wearing masks. And for those people that walk around in the stores without a mask, they are mostly of the opinion that it's their "right" not to wear a mask. For those people that are wearing masks, the average opinion is that if we all wear masks we are protecting each other as well as ourselves since we *know* that any of us could have and be a super-spreader for a good week or so before feeling/showing any symptoms.

I believe that if we'd started the whole pandemic shelter-in-place and wear-a-mask message from a national we-are-all-in-this-together point of view we'd be good right now. Instead, with some counties following direction from our governor and other counties fighting the state directives, all we are doing is playing a shell game and trying to figure out which cup has the ball in it. And that's the same on a larger scale with some states trying to open slowly and other states being much less restrictive. Here in America, we are a divided house.

I'd say our local media is also not helping matters much as they flit like butterflies from one juicy story to the next while pandering to the drama and gossip by stoking comments from our different governors, Faucci, and Trump.

At this stage here in America, I'm not sure we can put the cat back into the bag.


I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?

That said, there are no Covid-19 cases in my immediate area, the closest reported was over 30 kilometers away. I don't think that the virus will travel that far in large enough quantities to infect anybody. Also, those cloth as well as the paper masks really don't stop the virus.

At the risk of getting farther into the political that some are venturing into, Public Health in the US is a State and local responsibility. The Federal government can and has issued guidelines but it is not the Federal responsibility for Public Health. Go take US Civics classes if you need to understand this.

edit: Both my kitties like to go into bags on their own. One of them even like the ride when I swing it back and forth. But don't buy a pig in a poke or you will let the cat out of the bag.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 7/9/2020 3:55:12 AM >


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to durnedwolf)
Post #: 668
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 3:58:18 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public

Well, everyone already knows that Lysol works, so the EPA can be added to the list of official bodies that are really doing nothing to actually help the public.

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.


But now they can LEGALLY state that it kills the corona virus that causes Covid-19, before they could not LEGALLY do so. Can you comprehend that now? Or do you have to take English comprehension all over again.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 669
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 12:13:39 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
I will now increase my Covid-19 protection level since the local newspaper has stated that there is a Covid-19 case in the immediate area. The person works at a production facility but it does not state where the person lives. I just saw it quickly but did not read the entire article as the paper was downstairs for someone else to pick up as it is theirs.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 670
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 6:05:53 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 862
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

A couple of thoughts on comparisons between the US and elsewhere.

Back in the mists of time in the previous thread I think I linked to studies that were done on air crashes and how they link with differing models of Crew Resource Management. They were looking at CRM as varying on two axes. One was an 'individualist vs collectivist' axis the other was a 'power relations' axis.

I think you can draw a parallel between those ideas and more general observations of socio-political behaviour. I don't think that it would be a massive stretch to suggest that the US (and to a certain extent also the UK) is a society that is highly individualist one one axis and is very suspicious of any 'top-down' state interference on the other axis. In itself I don't attach any value judgement to that - I don't think that any position on that 2 way spectrum is the 'best way'. However I do think that in terms of the CV-19 pandemic it does seem that countries that are more collectivist (in terms of 'horizontal' social relations) and where people are more deferential to state involvement in their lives have done much better.

But the problem then comes that even if that is the case you can't suddenly 're-wire' the US (or the UK) and say that we need to be like the Germans or the Swedes or the South Koreans or the Japanese. For better or worse we are what we are. In the context of the current situation it seems apparent that that is very much for the worse. In totality I'm sure that there are many in the US and UK who feel that the overall benefits of those socio-political attitudes outweigh the specific negatives in the context of a health crisis like we are experiencing.

My fundamental point would be that you can't change those fundamental socio-cultural patterns overnight. Beating ourselves (ourselves being the UK and the US) up over that won't do any good. For me we have to identify the 'easy wins' that will bring significant benefit without contradicting those individualist impulses. Masks is a massive one - people in the US and UK have to grow up and acknowledge that wearing a face mask in shared public spaces is a nil cost/high benefit behaviour. Whatever your views on the place of individualism a rational viewpoint is that a nil cost/high benefit issue doesn't come under that. If you disagree then you are seeing society and politics not as a realm of rationalism but one of faith. That is where we start to have really big problems.


I think it's about how you present the information and the logic. For America, we have a sharply divided political message with the Republican leaders giving one message and the Democrat leaders another. I believe that if the White House, on Day one, would have maintained a nation-wide message similar to what most of Europe, S. Korea, and Canada did, our infectious numbers would be lower right now.

I'm in California and most people, regardless of politics, are wearing masks. And for those people that walk around in the stores without a mask, they are mostly of the opinion that it's their "right" not to wear a mask. For those people that are wearing masks, the average opinion is that if we all wear masks we are protecting each other as well as ourselves since we *know* that any of us could have and be a super-spreader for a good week or so before feeling/showing any symptoms.

I believe that if we'd started the whole pandemic shelter-in-place and wear-a-mask message from a national we-are-all-in-this-together point of view we'd be good right now. Instead, with some counties following direction from our governor and other counties fighting the state directives, all we are doing is playing a shell game and trying to figure out which cup has the ball in it. And that's the same on a larger scale with some states trying to open slowly and other states being much less restrictive. Here in America, we are a divided house.

I'd say our local media is also not helping matters much as they flit like butterflies from one juicy story to the next while pandering to the drama and gossip by stoking comments from our different governors, Faucci, and Trump.

At this stage here in America, I'm not sure we can put the cat back into the bag.


I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?

That said, there are no Covid-19 cases in my immediate area, the closest reported was over 30 kilometers away. I don't think that the virus will travel that far in large enough quantities to infect anybody. Also, those cloth as well as the paper masks really don't stop the virus.

At the risk of getting farther into the political that some are venturing into, Public Health in the US is a State and local responsibility. The Federal government can and has issued guidelines but it is not the Federal responsibility for Public Health. Go take US Civics classes if you need to understand this.

edit: Both my kitties like to go into bags on their own. One of them even like the ride when I swing it back and forth. But don't buy a pig in a poke or you will let the cat out of the bag.


Please don't take this as a slap or insult but I think you've made my point... <wry grin>

We all have different opinions and thoughts on the COVID. I work hard to keep that 6+ feet of separation. I carry a mask and when I'm in stores and such, I put the mask on. If someone chooses to not wear a mask correctly over their nose then there's not much I can do. The police, in my town, have publicly stated that they will not be arresting or issuing tickets to people if they are not wearing a mask. Stores and such can demand and post "face mask" requirements and as long as the information is posted, people can be arrested for trespassing if they refuse to leave when confronted by a peace officer.

But if specific COVID-19 prevention program was a nation-wide mandate, I believe that few people would buck the mandate if there was clear-cut evidence and the white house, congress, and state leadership were all in support of the directive.

So strongly do I feel about everyone wearing a mask and, when possible, practicing safe distancing, that for me when I see someone wandering around in a grocery store without a mask, I'd like to see them slapped with intent to threaten others with a bio-hazard.

Like I note above, I think America is a divided house in terms of COVID-19, and I believe that here in the states we will suffer due to the mixed message and lack of direction from our leaders.








< Message edited by durnedwolf -- 7/9/2020 6:08:18 PM >


_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 671
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 7:41:18 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3144
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

It took the United States 100 days to reach 1 Million Covid cases. It too only 43 days to hit 2 million cases. We just hit 3 million. It took 17 days to go from 2 million to 3 million. The rate of infection is accelerating


You are reporting known cases only. How many cases were there that resolved themselves that weren't known?

Probably lots but that is the common tracking metric we have.

Yesterday new cases reported as follows:
Norway: 10
Denmark: 11
Sweden: 57
Germany: 298
U.S.: 55,442


Yes, the US has a lot more testing capabilities and are using them.


I know that is what ur being told in the news in the US. Yes, the US has ramped up in test capacity but so have we over here. I live in Denmark. The county i live in has a population of 65000 and in random testing as there no one else to test in the last 2 weeks. 0 cases, i repeat 0 cases of any of the tests. Its 4 weeks since we had our last case in my county.

Yes, Denmark is divided. Jutland except up north where there was a recent outbreak that seems to have been contained, have next to no cases.
Zeeland and the capital the story isnt quite the same, there are still a few cases. Per JohnDillworths numbers. In each of the last 2 days of those tested positive there has been admitted 1 new case to hospitals in the entire country. If it was a case of just not testing people and we have a large hidden number of people infected. They would still get sick and some of those need hospitalization.

Yes, testing is ramping down and the random testing program was suspended a few days ago. In part because people have started stopping coming when called. So going foward clearly the US will surge ahead in overall testing, but there isnt much reason to have random testing in half of the country and Denmark are going to a policy of trace testing to contain any new outbreaks.

What is going to be "interesting" is the opening of the borders. What will happen then once ppl get home from vacations in southern europe.

< Message edited by Walloc -- 7/9/2020 9:10:08 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 672
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 9:23:11 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
If there is going to be trace testing, use the Korean plan of having it in place before something happens so it can be debated, studied, tested, then modified as is necessary. I think that would be better than suddenly imposing a system that may not work. There have been other diseases with tests and contact information. Think of the test for Syphilis before people got married.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 673
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/9/2020 9:38:47 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Went shopping today. The big store that I went to has signs up requiring masks starting the 13th of July. A lot more customers were wearing masks today.

Then I ended up walking to the local DQ, which is about two miles. As I was walking along a road, a medium sized dog came over barking at me. When I turned to face it, it stopped coming towards me but it was in the middle of the road, blocking traffic. When I turned to keep walking, it would start to come towards me as if it was going to come behind me and hamstring me. I should have called the authorities but I did not. Next time, if I remember to, I will take a couple of pictures and then start taking video.

But the DQ was closed inside because of storm damage from last night. We had another one this morning. But no deep fried foods but a bacon cheeseburger with the salad toppings went down good for breakfast at 13:45 hours.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 674
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 12:12:49 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15441
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?


I have glasses and no problem wearing the mask. You need a nose clip or built-in wire to bend around the nose bridge. That will keep the mask tight enough around the skin that little of the breath comes up on the glasses. A swimmer's nose clip might work.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 675
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 12:44:37 AM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 821
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
With my allergies I'm not sure clipping off my nose would work......unless the missus was trying to get rid of me. I used to love to scuba and snorkel but the allergies have pretty much killed that. The mask also makes breathing incredibly difficult. I honestly think people need to use common sense, otherwise we will all be walking around in space suits.

Not meant to be political.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 676
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 2:04:29 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I seldom wear a mask. My eyeglasses fog up and I can't see. I see a lot of the people with masks but their nose is not covered. How good is that?


I have glasses and no problem wearing the mask. You need a nose clip or built-in wire to bend around the nose bridge. That will keep the mask tight enough around the skin that little of the breath comes up on the glasses. A swimmer's nose clip might work.


Yes, a couple of those masks had the built in wire to help make a better seal. I want to make sure that those are on the masks before I pay over a dollar apiece for one.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 677
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 4:14:13 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9206
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public

Well, everyone already knows that Lysol works, so the EPA can be added to the list of official bodies that are really doing nothing to actually help the public.

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.


But now they can LEGALLY state that it kills the corona virus that causes Covid-19, before they could not LEGALLY do so. Can you comprehend that now? Or do you have to take English comprehension all over again.

Ah it's a LEGAL thing. You are correct that I did not comprehend that. I must re-read your post to see where it refers to a LEGAL issue:

EPA approves use of Lysol surface disinfectant products against COVID-19
The agency said laboratory testing showed they were effective against COVID-19

quote:

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced Monday that it has approved the first two surface disinfectant products, both made by Lysol, against the novel coronavirus.

The products - Lysol Disinfectant Spray and Lysol Disinfectant Max Cover Mist -- were approved by the agency based on laboratory testing that showed they were "effective against" COVID-19, according to a statement by the EPA. Under no circumstance should the disinfectant products be administered into the human body.

“EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public protect themselves and their families from the novel coronavirus,” said EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler. “EPA's review of products tested against this virus marks an important milestone in President Trump’s all of government approach to fighting the spread of COVID-19."

https://www.foxnews.com/health/epa-approves-lysol-surface-disinfectant-products-tested-against-coronavirus



Oops - nothing LEGAL there, maybe you are mistaken, again. But the point really isn't how wrong you often are, it is that organizations are constantly given huge sums of money for virtually nothing. A survey to provide helpful hints to citizens on how to stay warm in winter, including such glimmers of brilliance as 'were a sweater'; grants to labs to tell us how to prevent the spread of corona-virus' by staying 6 feet from others and to wash our hands; and now you have proudly reported the EPA's great success in discovering that Lysol is effective against corona-virus [hint for those that don't own a sweater, read the label on your Lysol product].

What really needs defunding is our fat and wasteful government and our corrupt politicians. Six months into this pandemic disaster and the best our tax dollars can get is the same old 'wear a mask' and a new product approval apparently based on reading a label. I wonder how much we paid for that little pellet of wisdom from the EPA Pez dispenser.


< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/10/2020 4:25:36 AM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 678
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 4:24:58 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9206
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

With my allergies I'm not sure clipping off my nose would work

Not to clip off your nose, lol, just to reduce or eliminate the space between the mask and your nose. I wear glasses and have the same fogging issues, but I've also worn N-95's for years because of my job and I am used to it. Currently I don't use my N-95's in general use because the virus shouldn't be that thick in a store or restaurant. I wear a cotton mask with a pipe cleaner bridge support when I need to look official, and when I go to a store or restaurant I wear a folded bandana. As soon as I am outside I am mask free. Either way there is always some fogging [especially in winter] and difficulty breathing, but you won't catch me driving or jogging with a mask on [what is wrong with people?]

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 679
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 4:52:03 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public

Well, everyone already knows that Lysol works, so the EPA can be added to the list of official bodies that are really doing nothing to actually help the public.

It has been tested and it can now advertise it. How many "cleaners" don't actually disinfect?

Lysol products list the stuff that they disinfect. The list includes Coronavirus and this isn't new, it's been like that forlikever. I thought everybody knew but now I see not, so I guess the EPA did a service to you. The service they did was to read the label on Lysol products, lol.


But now they can LEGALLY state that it kills the corona virus that causes Covid-19, before they could not LEGALLY do so. Can you comprehend that now? Or do you have to take English comprehension all over again.

Ah it's a LEGAL thing. You are correct that I did not comprehend that. I must re-read your post to see where it refers to a LEGAL issue:

EPA approves use of Lysol surface disinfectant products against COVID-19
The agency said laboratory testing showed they were effective against COVID-19

quote:

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced Monday that it has approved the first two surface disinfectant products, both made by Lysol, against the novel coronavirus.

The products - Lysol Disinfectant Spray and Lysol Disinfectant Max Cover Mist -- were approved by the agency based on laboratory testing that showed they were "effective against" COVID-19, according to a statement by the EPA. Under no circumstance should the disinfectant products be administered into the human body.

“EPA is committed to identifying new tools and providing accurate and up-to-date information to help the American public protect themselves and their families from the novel coronavirus,” said EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler. “EPA's review of products tested against this virus marks an important milestone in President Trump’s all of government approach to fighting the spread of COVID-19."

https://www.foxnews.com/health/epa-approves-lysol-surface-disinfectant-products-tested-against-coronavirus



Oops - nothing LEGAL there, maybe you are mistaken, again. But the point really isn't how wrong you often are, it is that organizations are constantly given huge sums of money for virtually nothing. A survey to provide helpful hints to citizens on how to stay warm in winter, including such glimmers of brilliance as 'were a sweater'; grants to labs to tell us how to prevent the spread of corona-virus' by staying 6 feet from others and to wash our hands; and now you have proudly reported the EPA's great success in discovering that Lysol is effective against corona-virus [hint for those that don't own a sweater, read the label on your Lysol product].

What really needs defunding is our fat and wasteful government and our corrupt politicians. Six months into this pandemic disaster and the best our tax dollars can get is the same old 'wear a mask' and a new product approval apparently based on reading a label. I wonder how much we paid for that little pellet of wisdom from the EPA Pez dispenser.


If you would have bothered to click on the link and read the entire article instead of just the part that I quoted, you would have seen this:

quote:

Before pesticide products can legally claim they kill a pathogen similar to SARS-CoV-2, they must be authorized by the EPA based on a review of data.

"The EPA's approval recognizes that using Lysol Disinfectant Spray can help to prevent the spread of COVID-19 on hard, non-porous surfaces," said Rahul Kadyan, EVP NA Hygiene for Reckitt Benckiser, Lysol's parent company.


There is more to the article but I doubt if you will want to read it since it does not contribute to your anti-government political diatribe.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 680
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 9:44:35 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3076
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
“Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Issue” is simply not true. This is a global pandemic. This is a national issue whether we choose to accept that or not. Treating this as a local issue is near sighted and ignorant. That attitude has resulted in the single largest health crisis in the history of our nation. The notion is simply wrong and one need simply to count the bodies or the 3 million cases to see how wrong it is. That approach is killing people needlessly every day. Once again we see Florida trying to hide and obscure data, this time unsuccessfully https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sheriff-wins-battle-with-de-santis-administration-over-coronavirus-data-174305203.html. BTW, DeSantis is clearly not up to the task. Maybe he is lying to himself or is simply stupid. The results of his incompetence speak for themselves. On a personal note, I’ve know a lot of drunks in my life and can pick them out a mile away. Take a look at DeSantis thirsty face, clearly he needs to resign and dry out

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 681
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 11:41:57 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Issue” is simply not true. This is a global pandemic. This is a national issue whether we choose to accept that or not. Treating this as a local issue is near sighted and ignorant. That attitude has resulted in the single largest health crisis in the history of our nation. The notion is simply wrong and one need simply to count the bodies or the 3 million cases to see how wrong it is. That approach is killing people needlessly every day. Once again we see Florida trying to hide and obscure data, this time unsuccessfully https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sheriff-wins-battle-with-de-santis-administration-over-coronavirus-data-174305203.html. BTW, DeSantis is clearly not up to the task. Maybe he is lying to himself or is simply stupid. The results of his incompetence speak for themselves. On a personal note, I’ve know a lot of drunks in my life and can pick them out a mile away. Take a look at DeSantis thirsty face, clearly he needs to resign and dry out


Maybe “Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Responsibility” would be a better way to put it. Yes the Federal government is involved but that is more through the national organizations, some of which are because of interstate commerce.

Please leave personal attacks on politicians who are not here out of this thread. Those people can't defend themselves.


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 682
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 11:59:17 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Issue” is simply not true. This is a global pandemic. This is a national issue whether we choose to accept that or not. Treating this as a local issue is near sighted and ignorant. That attitude has resulted in the single largest health crisis in the history of our nation. The notion is simply wrong and one need simply to count the bodies or the 3 million cases to see how wrong it is. That approach is killing people needlessly every day. Once again we see Florida trying to hide and obscure data, this time unsuccessfully https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sheriff-wins-battle-with-de-santis-administration-over-coronavirus-data-174305203.html. BTW, DeSantis is clearly not up to the task. Maybe he is lying to himself or is simply stupid. The results of his incompetence speak for themselves. On a personal note, I’ve know a lot of drunks in my life and can pick them out a mile away. Take a look at DeSantis thirsty face, clearly he needs to resign and dry out


While I agree with some things you're saying here and the administration in Florida seems to be continually attempting to manipulate reporting around Covid, the comments at the bottom about DeSantis need something to back them up.

He's a Yale grad and went on to Harvard Law so on that track record "stupid" may not be an accurate descriptor. Hubris and political self-interest can make the smartest leaders make bad decisions. As for the claims you can tell from video and images that he's a "drunk," you may suspect that but do you have any way of knowing that. Does this come from some source?

I'd be shocked and angry to be labelled that way by someone I'd never met.

< Message edited by obvert -- 7/10/2020 12:01:22 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 683
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 12:12:35 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 821
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

With my allergies I'm not sure clipping off my nose would work

Not to clip off your nose, lol, just to reduce or eliminate the space between the mask and your nose. I wear glasses and have the same fogging issues, but I've also worn N-95's for years because of my job and I am used to it. Currently I don't use my N-95's in general use because the virus shouldn't be that thick in a store or restaurant. I wear a cotton mask with a pipe cleaner bridge support when I need to look official, and when I go to a store or restaurant I wear a folded bandana. As soon as I am outside I am mask free. Either way there is always some fogging [especially in winter] and difficulty breathing, but you won't catch me driving or jogging with a mask on [what is wrong with people?]

I have a few masks, some basic contractor jobs, one a custom cloth job a friend made for me. In any case I'm not great about which vehicle I leave them in. So a few weeks back I had driven to a store about 15 min away and realized the masks were in the other car. I was wearing a t shirt and a sweatshirt so stripped down in the parking lot and turned my t shirt into a bandana, and put the sweatshirt back on. I got a number of strange looks but the store let me in

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 684
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 12:15:47 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 821
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Issue” is simply not true. This is a global pandemic. This is a national issue whether we choose to accept that or not. Treating this as a local issue is near sighted and ignorant. That attitude has resulted in the single largest health crisis in the history of our nation. The notion is simply wrong and one need simply to count the bodies or the 3 million cases to see how wrong it is. That approach is killing people needlessly every day. Once again we see Florida trying to hide and obscure data, this time unsuccessfully https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sheriff-wins-battle-with-de-santis-administration-over-coronavirus-data-174305203.html. BTW, DeSantis is clearly not up to the task. Maybe he is lying to himself or is simply stupid. The results of his incompetence speak for themselves. On a personal note, I’ve know a lot of drunks in my life and can pick them out a mile away. Take a look at DeSantis thirsty face, clearly he needs to resign and dry out

Just for the record, not the worst health crisis in the history of our nation. It may become so, but I think the Flu post WW1 still took out more people, and from all smaller total population.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 685
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 12:39:32 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15441
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Issue” is simply not true. This is a global pandemic. This is a national issue whether we choose to accept that or not. Treating this as a local issue is near sighted and ignorant. That attitude has resulted in the single largest health crisis in the history of our nation. The notion is simply wrong and one need simply to count the bodies or the 3 million cases to see how wrong it is. That approach is killing people needlessly every day. Once again we see Florida trying to hide and obscure data, this time unsuccessfully https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sheriff-wins-battle-with-de-santis-administration-over-coronavirus-data-174305203.html. BTW, DeSantis is clearly not up to the task. Maybe he is lying to himself or is simply stupid. The results of his incompetence speak for themselves. On a personal note, I’ve know a lot of drunks in my life and can pick them out a mile away. Take a look at DeSantis thirsty face, clearly he needs to resign and dry out

Just for the record, not the worst health crisis in the history of our nation. It may become so, but I think the Flu post WW1 still took out more people, and from all smaller total population.

The 1919/21 flu is over, but this COVID thing is not nearly through with us. And then there are secondary effects, like people so frustrated by the lockdown that they shoot somebody at home or at random outside because of some small dispute ... I don't know why our schools don't teach us how to chill/meditate to clear our minds of all our fears and accept what we cannot control. Right now the model for resuming lockdowns seems to be "it will happen when people's fear of the virus exceeds their fear of loss of income/freedom of movement/something interesting to do". That bottles up a lot of fear either way.
I am fortunate not to be raising a family right now, retired, financially secure and playing WITP-AE to satisfy my need for entertainment!


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to fcooke)
Post #: 686
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 1:03:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8207
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Yellow fever was much worse:

quote:

Yellow fever appeared in the U.S. in the late 17th century. The deadly virus continued to strike cities, mostly eastern seaports and Gulf Coast cities, for the next two hundred years, killing hundreds, sometimes thousands in a single summer.

1. Philadelphia; August-November 1793; approximately 5,000 dead
This outbreak killed about 10% of the city's population, and thousands more fled, including an infected Alexander Hamilton and his wife. Dr. Benjamin Rush, who stayed, issued guidelines for avoiding infection and helped set up a "fever hospital" for victims.

2. New York City; July-October 1795; 730 dead
New York City, which in 1793 had turned away refugees from the epidemic in Philadelphia, suffered its own epidemic two summers later.

3. Boston, New York City and Philadelphia; Summer 1798; more than 5,000 dead
Concurrent epidemics hit the nation's three major cities.

4. Baltimore; Summer 1800; 1,200 dead
As the 19th century wore on, yellow fever outbreaks would increasingly be confined to the southern United States.

5. New Orleans; Summer 1853; 8000 or more dead
This outbreak illustrated a racial disparity in yellow fever mortality; 7.4% of white residents died, but only 0.2% of blacks.

6. Norfolk; June-Oct 1855; 2,000 dead
This epidemic, like many others in America, began with the arrival of a disease-carrying ship from the West Indies.

7. Mississippi Valley; May-Oct 1878; 20,000 dead
Starting in New Orleans, this epidemic spread up the Mississippi Valley to Memphis. More than half of the 47,000 residents of Memphis fled the city; more than 5,000 died that summer of yellow fever.

8. Cuba; Summer 1898; hundreds dead
Disease killed more than five times as many American soldiers as enemy bullets during the Spanish-American war; yellow fever was among the culprits, and its impact led to the establishment of a U.S. Army Yellow Fever Board led by Walter Reed that would unravel the mystery of yellow fever transmission and lead to its eradication in America.

9. New Orleans; May-October 1905; more than 900 dead
Yellow fever epidemics took more than 41,000 lives in New Orleans from 1817-1905, but the 1905 outbreak was America's last. Today, yellow fever continues to appear in small outbreaks in South America and more serious epidemics in West and Central Africa.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/fever-major-american-epidemics-of-yellow-fever/

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 687
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 2:28:48 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 821
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

“Public Health in the Untied States is a State and Local Issue” is simply not true. This is a global pandemic. This is a national issue whether we choose to accept that or not. Treating this as a local issue is near sighted and ignorant. That attitude has resulted in the single largest health crisis in the history of our nation. The notion is simply wrong and one need simply to count the bodies or the 3 million cases to see how wrong it is. That approach is killing people needlessly every day. Once again we see Florida trying to hide and obscure data, this time unsuccessfully https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sheriff-wins-battle-with-de-santis-administration-over-coronavirus-data-174305203.html. BTW, DeSantis is clearly not up to the task. Maybe he is lying to himself or is simply stupid. The results of his incompetence speak for themselves. On a personal note, I’ve know a lot of drunks in my life and can pick them out a mile away. Take a look at DeSantis thirsty face, clearly he needs to resign and dry out

Just for the record, not the worst health crisis in the history of our nation. It may become so, but I think the Flu post WW1 still took out more people, and from all smaller total population.

The 1919/21 flu is over, but this COVID thing is not nearly through with us. And then there are secondary effects, like people so frustrated by the lockdown that they shoot somebody at home or at random outside because of some small dispute ... I don't know why our schools don't teach us how to chill/meditate to clear our minds of all our fears and accept what we cannot control. Right now the model for resuming lockdowns seems to be "it will happen when people's fear of the virus exceeds their fear of loss of income/freedom of movement/something interesting to do". That bottles up a lot of fear either way.
I am fortunate not to be raising a family right now, retired, financially secure and playing WITP-AE to satisfy my need for entertainment!


Gladly in the same situation as regards being retired and financially secure. But many are not. And the loss of income/stress/mental heath impact will likely never be correlated to this bugger. And the hyperbole in the media is....well I won't say because then it might become political.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 688
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 5:53:07 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
This sounds a little ominous


https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/07/10/worse-than-covid-19-china-and-kazakhstan-disagree-over-new-virus/#7cead14a422a

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 689
RE: OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version - 7/10/2020 6:13:40 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 291
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
on a lighter note: https://imgur.com/gallery/UQknnJN

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"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
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