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Feasibility question from a total modding newbie

 
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Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/9/2020 2:07:29 PM   
CariadocThorne

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/9/2020
Status: offline
Hi there,

I am new to DW, and have done no real modding before, my "modding" experience is limited to tweaking a couple of values or removing a line in simple config files for games like Dwarf Fortress. So I am here because I'm hoping someone with a bit of real experience and knowledge can tell me if what I want to do is really feasible or not before I waste dozens of hours of precious spare time (12 hour working day including travel, wife, 3 kids....) on something which either won't ever work, or at least not without a lot more modding skill than I possess.

So basically, what I want to do is fairly simple in concept at least. Basically, the main thing I dislike in DW so far is that the different "ship roles" for combat ships (ie escort, frigate, destroyer etc) only seem to change the graphic and how the ships act when automated.

The first thing I'd like to change is making them different sizes, so that for example, an up to date maxxed out cruiser is bigger than an equivalent frigate.

Secondly, I'd like to add some real functional differences to help keep the different sized ships relavent, rather than creating a situation where the best strategy is just producing as many of the biggest ship as possible.

I have some ideas about how to do this in a relatively simple way, but I don't know if theese will really work, and whether they will screw up the AI (probably by making the AI unable to produce valid or effective ship designs).

My first idea was simply to add size limit modifiers to roles, like escorts get -30% ship size, Frigates get -10%, Destoyers stay the same, Cruisers get +50%, Capital Ships get +100%. Or something like that at least.

My second idea, which I prefer if it is workable, and which could be combined with the first idea, was to add some min/max restrictions to how many of certain components each ship could have. For example, limiting Escorts to 1 reactor, frigates to 2, destroyers to 3, cruisers to 4, and capital ships to 5. Practically, this would need a bit more work, like making reactors smaller, cheaper and less powerful, and starting at 2 or 3 reactors for escorts, then increasing for bigger ships. Or it could be the number of fuel cells or thrusters perhaps. This would impose a practical limit on the size of each class of ship, but could also help enforce real differences in how the ships play. For example, capital ships could easily be big powerful fighting ships, but a limited number of fuel cells would really make them the big hitters of the fleet, but limit them to roles where they have plenty of support, like defending your own systems, or being the backbone of a fleet with support and refuelling capabilities, while cruisers would still be fairly big and powerful, but significantly less powerful than a capital ship while more capable of operating away from imediate support, while frigates would be too small to be much good in a major battle, but great for scouting and raiding behind enemy lines.

So would something like this be practical, how hard would it be to implement, and how likely would I be to accidentally break the AI?

Or is there another mod which already does something like this which I've missed?
Post #: 1
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/9/2020 9:52:27 PM   
CariadocThorne

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/9/2020
Status: offline
A second question, which is probably being massively over-ambitious, but I might as well ask...

Would it be possible to add some kind of "ammunition storage" to the game? Add storage components to ships and have missiles and projectile weapons deplete these as they fire.

I'm guessing that this would require basically rewriting a chunk of the game's mechanics, so probably not really possible, but I'd really love to see missiles (and to a lesser extent railguns etc) occupy the niche I imagine for them of having not only great range, but good dps too (probably even higher than beams), while being balanced by point defence and limited ammunition.

So I'm doubting that this is realistically possible, but asking just on the off-chance that I'm wrong.

(in reply to CariadocThorne)
Post #: 2
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/11/2020 12:48:37 AM   
rjord1

 

Posts: 1831
Joined: 6/14/2013
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CariadocThorne

Hi there,

I am new to DW, and have done no real modding before, my "modding" experience is limited to tweaking a couple of values or removing a line in simple config files for games like Dwarf Fortress. So I am here because I'm hoping someone with a bit of real experience and knowledge can tell me if what I want to do is really feasible or not before I waste dozens of hours of precious spare time (12 hour working day including travel, wife, 3 kids....) on something which either won't ever work, or at least not without a lot more modding skill than I possess.

So basically, what I want to do is fairly simple in concept at least. Basically, the main thing I dislike in DW so far is that the different "ship roles" for combat ships (ie escort, frigate, destroyer etc) only seem to change the graphic and how the ships act when automated.

The first thing I'd like to change is making them different sizes, so that for example, an up to date maxxed out cruiser is bigger than an equivalent frigate.

Secondly, I'd like to add some real functional differences to help keep the different sized ships relavent, rather than creating a situation where the best strategy is just producing as many of the biggest ship as possible.

I have some ideas about how to do this in a relatively simple way, but I don't know if theese will really work, and whether they will screw up the AI (probably by making the AI unable to produce valid or effective ship designs).

My first idea was simply to add size limit modifiers to roles, like escorts get -30% ship size, Frigates get -10%, Destoyers stay the same, Cruisers get +50%, Capital Ships get +100%. Or something like that at least.

My second idea, which I prefer if it is workable, and which could be combined with the first idea, was to add some min/max restrictions to how many of certain components each ship could have. For example, limiting Escorts to 1 reactor, frigates to 2, destroyers to 3, cruisers to 4, and capital ships to 5. Practically, this would need a bit more work, like making reactors smaller, cheaper and less powerful, and starting at 2 or 3 reactors for escorts, then increasing for bigger ships. Or it could be the number of fuel cells or thrusters perhaps. This would impose a practical limit on the size of each class of ship, but could also help enforce real differences in how the ships play. For example, capital ships could easily be big powerful fighting ships, but a limited number of fuel cells would really make them the big hitters of the fleet, but limit them to roles where they have plenty of support, like defending your own systems, or being the backbone of a fleet with support and refuelling capabilities, while cruisers would still be fairly big and powerful, but significantly less powerful than a capital ship while more capable of operating away from imediate support, while frigates would be too small to be much good in a major battle, but great for scouting and raiding behind enemy lines.

So would something like this be practical, how hard would it be to implement, and how likely would I be to accidentally break the AI?

Or is there another mod which already does something like this which I've missed?



With the ship sizes are you only looking to make the ship graphic bigger .... if so page 32 of the modders manual explains how to use scaling to increase or reduce the size of the ship graphic.

With the Star Trek mod I am working on I am doing some testing to try and prevent 15 ships being built in a matter of minutes.... to me that does not seem realistic. I am looking at probably using a component for each ship which costs more or takes longer to build to reduce the time taken to build ships. Also looking at not being able to build the next class of ship until research is done for one or more components.

I Am confident I can do all this with my empire but not sure if it works for AI yet... that I need to test. Hopefully, AI uses the design template the same way as the human player does.

(in reply to CariadocThorne)
Post #: 3
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/12/2020 3:57:04 PM   
CariadocThorne

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/9/2020
Status: offline
Thanks for answering. I don't care somuch about the graphics, what I want to do is change the maximum ship size, ie how many components can be fitted, so that the different ship types are more different in how they play, like cruisers being bigger and having more weapons than frigates for example.

Ideally, I want the Escorts to be smallest, then frigates, then destroyers, then cruisers, then capital ships being the biggest and most powerful combat ships, but I'd like the smaller ships to have other advantages, like longer hyperspace range, to keep them relevant in different roles.

(in reply to rjord1)
Post #: 4
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/12/2020 6:08:49 PM   
Retreat1970


Posts: 739
Joined: 11/6/2013
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
I think (if I remember) the AI already does this. The AI limits sizes according to classification and they use such ships accordingly (well sometimes). It's the human players that design their ships to be mega weapon frigates not the computer.

(in reply to CariadocThorne)
Post #: 5
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/12/2020 6:33:48 PM   
CariadocThorne

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

I think (if I remember) the AI already does this. The AI limits sizes according to classification and they use such ships accordingly (well sometimes). It's the human players that design their ships to be mega weapon frigates not the computer.


Do you know roughly what size the AI limits itself to for each ship type (fighting ships only)? Or where I would look to find out?

If the AI already limits itself, I can just force myself to play to the same limits, with no need for modding.

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 6
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/12/2020 9:36:38 PM   
Retreat1970


Posts: 739
Joined: 11/6/2013
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
I think it's the design templates where it gives a max amount of components a design can use.

(in reply to CariadocThorne)
Post #: 7
RE: Feasibility question from a total modding newbie - 5/13/2020 7:12:44 PM   
CariadocThorne

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

I think it's the design templates where it gives a max amount of components a design can use.


Thanks, I can work it out from those.

Anyone have any thoughts on my second question, about adding an "ammunition" mechanic for ballistic and missile weapons?

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 8
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