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Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO!

 
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Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/19/2020 2:30:42 PM   
Kushan04


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As seen on the livestream yesterday, here is my Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 scenario rebuilt from the ground up for CMO! Overall I think the scenario plays better and more historical than the previous version.

quote:

On the 5th of April 1986 terrorists detonated a bomb in a Berlin nightclub. The bomb killed 2 American soldiers and a Turkish woman and injured 229 others, 79 of whom were American.

In response, citing evidence that the government of Libya was responsible for the bombing, US president Ronald Reagan ordered airstrikes against Libya on the night of April 14/15, codenamed OPERATION EL DORADO CANYON.


It can also be found on the Steam Workshop!

Custom Overlays can be found HERE

Lots of changes from the original CMANO version:
- Implemented Apache85's lua scripts, including SAR and weather! I also rewrote all of my lua scripts based off of Apaches.
- Adjusted locations of the US objectives. The Aziziyah Barracks, Sidi Bilal, and Benghazi Barracks were in the wrong locations.
- Rebuilt the Libyan IADS using SAM Site Overview, SAM Simulator locations, and some other sources.
- USAF Tanker Callsigns! Huge thank you to Switchblade Ops & [40-1]Havoc11 for pointing me towards USAF communication transcripts.
- Various other tweaks and adjustments.
- One change from yesterdays stream version, removed Crotale and SA-9 from the AAA options.

I do have a few other minor tweaks I plan to make. I was given some ideas by Gunner on how to further slow down the response from the Libyan IADS. I also forgot to include a weather report to the player. With that said this version is fully playable, everything should be working.

5/14/2020 - Updated to v1.1.1:
- Small lua fix to the spare aircraft RTB script.

Look forward to comments and critiques.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kushan04 -- 5/14/2020 1:37:51 PM >


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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/19/2020 2:44:01 PM   
findle70

 

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Thanks for all the hard work you put in on this!

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/19/2020 3:07:35 PM   
Tom Konczal

 

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I looked all over yesterday for the livestream but couldn't find it. :(
Is it going to be uploaded to YouTube?
Thanks

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/19/2020 3:28:07 PM   
Kushan04


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Posted some hints and suggestions to Twitter. I'll add these to the end of the briefing in the next version.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Konczal

I looked all over yesterday for the livestream but couldn't find it. :(
Is it going to be uploaded to YouTube?
Thanks


The VODs can be found on the SlitherGroup Twitch Channel. I may upload a cut of it to my YouTube channel at some point. Not sure if Slitherine is going to upload it to their YouTube Channel.
Part 1
Part 2

I had a hiccup with OBS that required me to stop/restart the stream.


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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/19/2020 10:28:19 PM   
Kushan04


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I've uploaded it to the Steam Workshop. See the first post for the link!

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/20/2020 2:53:02 AM   
JDLgnd

 

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Will it be part of the Community Scenario Pack (Official) once the pack gets reuploaded on steam with the new scenarios?

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/20/2020 1:36:59 PM   
Kushan04


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JDLgnd
Will it be part of the Community Scenario Pack (Official) once the pack gets reuploaded on steam with the new scenarios?


It should be in the next version of the CSP.

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/20/2020 4:11:40 PM   
BeirutDude


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Thanks, working on a Second "Putin's War" scenario but will try to take a peak. Always been an interest of mine as I briefed Strike Fighter Wings Atlantic at NAS Cecil Field just before ops began. Amazingly the Libyans were providing weather observations right up until the bombs fell.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/22/2020 3:03:19 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/20/2020 9:55:12 PM   
mikkey


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Kushan, thanks for nice stream and scenario!

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/22/2020 12:40:27 AM   
Kushan04


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Really curious what you think of it BeirutDude!

Thanks Mikkey! It was fun to do. From what I saw and heard the stream numbers were really good and I've heard nothing but good feedback. Might consider doing something similar again in the future.

Finally got my hands on "Raid on Qaddafi: The Untold Story of History's Longest Fighter Mission by the Pilot Who Directed It" by Robert E. Venkus, who was the assistant wing commander of the 48 TFW. Never came up when I was doing research but someone pointed it out to me a few weeks ago on stream and it came up when I search directly for it. Amazon seller cheated me and never sent the book but I did manage to find it on Google Books of all places. Learned that the Libyans turned off their air search radars around midnight. I'm going to finish reading it before I decide if there are any changes I want to make. Probably be just some minor event tweaking. SSN754Planker did request I put some RP's on the map to mark out the approximate refueling areas. Going to tie those into a Special Action for those that might not want the extra help...or can't be bothered to read the briefing

Toying around with doing an F-117 variant. I've seen some references here and there that they were considered but nothing ever official. If they were considered I don't think it was done seriously but its a fun concept to play around with.

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/22/2020 1:58:55 PM   
Coiler12

 

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A real out-there option would be to use the hypothetical F-19 unit.

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/23/2020 11:17:50 AM   
boogabooga

 

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Thank you.

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/25/2020 2:02:24 PM   
BeirutDude


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So just getting into it. Question, are the tanker ready times historical or just for the scenario. If the latter, I would suggest making the KC-135s ready initially, as the KC-135s and KC-10 really get mixed up on launch.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 1:52:19 PM   
BeirutDude


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Very detailed!

The F-111/EF-111 transit and tanking is a scenario all to itself! To be honest I have started it 5 times and have never been able to coordinate the refueling and timing. I-ve tried small groups, large groups wings by type, the different air speeds make it very hard and if I get the aircraft to the Straits of Gibraltar with plenty of fuel I'm hopelessly behind schedule. So this is a refueling issue I've never tried before (so other than this op who has , maybe the IAF??? ). It's a testament to the USAF (and having been a USN "Squid" assigned to Marines, I love to bust on the USAF), Skills that they pulled it off with appropriate TOT!!!!

Now I do tend to be a bit of a perfectionist, but then I hit the Straits about 3 hours in its clear my TOT is busted! I'm a BAD CMO player!

Oh one other thing, and I'm going off my memory here, but didn't they cut the corner a bit over Portugal?

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/26/2020 1:56:34 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 3:02:56 PM   
BeirutDude


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So giving it another try, as I recall the aircraft few about 25,000 ft (if memory serves me right it had something to do with staying below the average height of commercial traffic). Taking the KC-135s up to 36,000 gives them more airspeed. So lets see if I can time it better!

EDIT: So one thing that is messing me up is when the KC-10s start to fuel they drop to Loiter (230 mph), which makes sense. So to keep things from getting strung out need to manually go to each tanker/tanker group and increase the airspeed to 520 mph. Not sure if that slows down refueling (or stops it???). We'll see, but if you let the aircraft drop down to loiter, timing is blown!

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/26/2020 3:52:54 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 5:52:11 PM   
Kushan04


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Joined: 6/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
So just getting into it. Question, are the tanker ready times historical or just for the scenario. If the latter, I would suggest making the KC-135s ready initially, as the KC-135s and KC-10 really get mixed up on launch.


It was a really complicated launch, so I didn't even try to get exact ready times for each tanker but in general I have it close. The first wave of tankers started launching about 17:15. What I've found works best is to launch the KC-135s first. When the first wave of F-111s is ready (PUFFY and LUJAC) I begin to launch the 4 KC-10s for that group. Then when that group is assembled, I start to launch the second wave. Probably need to adjust some tanker ready times as well here.

Note: Second wave ready times are wrong, they shouldn't be ready to launch until about an hour in.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

Very detailed!

The F-111/EF-111 transit and tanking is a scenario all to itself! To be honest I have started it 5 times and have never been able to coordinate the refueling and timing. I-ve tried small groups, large groups wings by type, the different air speeds make it very hard and if I get the aircraft to the Straits of Gibraltar with plenty of fuel I'm hopelessly behind schedule. So this is a refueling issue I've never tried before (so other than this op who has , maybe the IAF??? ). It's a testament to the USAF (and having been a USN "Squid" assigned to Marines, I love to bust on the USAF), Skills that they pulled it off with appropriate TOT!!!!

Now I do tend to be a bit of a perfectionist, but then I hit the Straits about 3 hours in its clear my TOT is busted! I'm a BAD CMO player!

Oh one other thing, and I'm going off my memory here, but didn't they cut the corner a bit over Portugal?


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

So giving it another try, as I recall the aircraft few about 25,000 ft (if memory serves me right it had something to do with staying below the average height of commercial traffic). Taking the KC-135s up to 36,000 gives them more airspeed. So lets see if I can time it better!

EDIT: So one thing that is messing me up is when the KC-10s start to fuel they drop to Loiter (230 mph), which makes sense. So to keep things from getting strung out need to manually go to each tanker/tanker group and increase the airspeed to 520 mph. Not sure if that slows down refueling (or stops it???). We'll see, but if you let the aircraft drop down to loiter, timing is blown!


Going to answer these two together. The refueling really could be a scenario unto itself. When I originally started making it I had more than one person suggest to me to cut that entire part of the raid out. never entertained it very much, IMO taking it out would cut out a huge part of what made the operation a feat of aviation.

I know I mention the strict TOT, but there is no harm for missing it. The live stream last week was the closest I've come to hitting the TOT. Its a 6.5 hour trip. 3 hours at the Strait of Gibralter sounds about right.

I've never seen the actual flight path taken, just a approximate estimate. To my knowledge they stayed in international airspace the whole time. In order to make up sometime, they did cut some dog legs out of the course in the Med, which brought them "uncomfortably close" (The words of Robert Velkus, deputy CO of the 48th TFW) to non-participants airspace.

Your right, they flew down at about 25-26,000 ft. I normally fly my force down at 36,000 ft due to game mechanics. The actual raid flew down at a speed around 400+ kts, can't do that at lower altitude in the KC-10 in CMO.

You've also hit the head of another game mechanic which makes hitting the TOT exact difficult. The actual raid did high speed refueling at 400_ kts. Velkus mentions multiple times in his book that they had to use afterburner to maintain position and speed as to not drop off the tankers while refueling.

Unfortunately, high speed refueling like that can't be done in CMO right now. The current game mechanics envision the standard tanker orbits & rendezvous. The tanker slowing to loiter helps the AI with pathing.

What I've seen works best is to:
1) The first refueling is the hardest IMO. Refuel the KC-10s and the F-111s from the KC-135s over the Bay of Biscay. The F-111s didn't actually refuel this way but with the tankers slowing to loiter mechanic it works best IMO. It allows the whole strike force to slow down to the tankers loiter speed while the KC-135s can refuel the KC-10s. Otherwise the F-111s will shoot out ahead. 1 KC-135 should be able to top off the tanks of 3-4 KC-10s that early. Should have a few left over to refuel the F-111s at the same time as well.

2) I maintain about 350-400 kts for all my groups. I gets tricky when giving course corrections to multiple types because the F-111s will always want to speed up to 480 kts so you have to watch them. If you select them in the right order they will maintain speed. Can also assign them to a patrol mission and leap frog the reference points.

3) Make sure to refuel all F-111 groups at the same time, from one group of tankers. I do use the mother tanker to some extent by having the same group refuel from the same tanker each time.

4) When the F-111's are refueling, slow my other tanker group(s) to loiter speed manually. Have to pay attention because once the F-111s finish they will speed back up to their manually assigned 400 kts. If they all refuel around the same time they should break away close enough to where there isn't too much separation. When the F-111'sd are finished, I manually set the speed of the tanker groups back to 400 kts.

5) Refuel the F-111 mother tankers after the strike force breaks off to attack. I normally hold their orbit around Sicily. Refueling them enroute just causes headaches.

I'm going to try and make a video this week showing the refueling. Forgot to have OBS record the footage from the livestream a few weeks ago. So I'll have to re-record it. Thankfully I can do that with TC this time .

Appreciate the feedback, keep it coming.

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 6:48:04 PM   
BeirutDude


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one other thing I was going to do, maybe a cheat but I was going land and refuel the KC-135s at Rota.

quote:

What I've seen works best is to:
1) The first refueling is the hardest IMO. Refuel the KC-10s and the F-111s from the KC-135s over the Bay of Biscay. The F-111s didn't actually refuel this way but with the tankers slowing to loiter mechanic it works best IMO. It allows the whole strike force to slow down to the tankers loiter speed while the KC-135s can refuel the KC-10s. Otherwise the F-111s will shoot out ahead. 1 KC-135 should be able to top off the tanks of 3-4 KC-10s that early. Should have a few left over to refuel the F-111s at the same time as well.

2) I maintain about 350-400 kts for all my groups. I gets tricky when giving course corrections to multiple types because the F-111s will always want to speed up to 480 kts so you have to watch them. If you select them in the right order they will maintain speed. Can also assign them to a patrol mission and leap frog the reference points.

3) Make sure to refuel all F-111 groups at the same time, from one group of tankers. I do use the mother tanker to some extent by having the same group refuel from the same tanker each time.

4) When the F-111's are refueling, slow my other tanker group(s) to loiter speed manually. Have to pay attention because once the F-111s finish they will speed back up to their manually assigned 400 kts. If they all refuel around the same time they should break away close enough to where there isn't too much separation. When the F-111'sd are finished, I manually set the speed of the tanker groups back to 400 kts.

5) Refuel the F-111 mother tankers after the strike force breaks off to attack. I normally hold their orbit around Sicily. Refueling them enroute just causes headaches.


So yes I've seen and done some variant on all of this at one point or another. Guess I should have kept going when Hit the Strait at 3 hours! Right now I have the KC-135s in a nice clusters in 2 and 1 aircraft groups. I'm finding keeping them to that size allows you to more easily assign tanking. The F-111/EF-111s are drinking right now just west of Portugal and then I'm going to tank off the 135s. The way I did that was building three (3) "Form-up" SUPPORT missions over southern England, One for the KC-10s, One for the F-111Fs and one for the EF-111As. Then I built a Support Mission for my mission track for all the groups to head down (that way I can assign Groups altitudes and speeds and when the KC-135s passes each I reassign the Formed Up group to the Track Support Mission. So it's echeloned 135s, 10s F-111s and EF-111s and just let the F-111s & EF-111s come up to refuel. Once the Strikers are done drinking I'm going to refuel the KC-10s and send the 135s to ROTA. Wonder why they didn't do that in the original mission? seems like refueling some 135s would be something the Spanish would have looked the other way on.

One way to keep everyone on track is to move the "Track Support Mission's" first reference point ahead of them and then deleting the RPs as they're not needed anymore. That way they aircraft always tracking toward the RP and you don't have to worry about so many tracks!

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/26/2020 6:59:02 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 7:31:59 PM   
BeirutDude


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KC-135s in line in the lead
KC-10s and F-111s in middle
KC-10 refueling EF-111s in the van.

F-111's done drinking and getting ready to refuel one more time after the Spares depart, then the KC-10s.

Might consider finding some way to not allowing the 135s to land at Rota if you want it represented for the cripple(s) but not as a refueling point (historical).




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 18
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 7:35:41 PM   
Kushan04


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Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

one other thing I was going to do, maybe a cheat but I was going land and refuel the KC-135s at Rota.

So yes I've seen and done some variant on all of this at one point or another. Guess I should have kept going when Hit the Strait at 3 hours! Right now I have the KC-135s in a nice clusters in 2 and 1 aircraft groups. I'm finding keeping them to that size allows you to more easily assign tanking. The F-111/EF-111s are drinking right now just west of Portugal and then I'm going to tank off the 135s. The way I did that was building three (3) "Form-up" SUPPORT missions over southern England, One for the KC-10s, One for the F-111Fs and one for the EF-111As. Then I built a Support Mission for my mission track for all the groups to head down (that way I can assign Groups altitudes and speeds and when the KC-135s passes each I reassign the Formed Up group to the Track Support Mission. So it's echeloned 135s, 10s F-111s and EF-111s and just let the F-111s & EF-111s come up to refuel. Once the Strikers are done drinking I'm going to refuel the KC-10s and send the 135s to ROTA. Wonder why they didn't do that in the original mission? seems like refueling some 135s would be something the Spanish would have looked the other way on.

One way to keep everyone on track is to move the "Track Support Mission's" first reference point ahead of them and then deleting the RPs as they're not needed anymore. That way they aircraft always tracking toward the RP and you don't have to worry about so many tracks!


Spain refused overflight. The 1 F-111F that did land there with engine overheat issues wasn't revealed until a few weeks (a month?) after the raid. The Spanish government didn't want to do anything that would potentially invite an retaliation. Landing tankers at Rota probably would have violated an agreements between the US and Spain. I intended for Rota to be divert base. Especially on the way back, fuel levels might not allow everyone to make it back to the UK.

Interesting enough some members of the Spanish military didn't feel that way as their government. After the raid some of them invited a group of USAF officers to an officers club for a meeting. When they USAF officers arrived they were greeted with champagne and a toast. A British officer in the Lakenheath command center, when the RAF personal were asked to leave, told the USAF personal to bomb him (Qaddafi) good.

I like the individual mission track idea. Will give that a go next time I play through. I did something similar on the livestream but I assigned all my aircraft to one support mission. Be careful with the F-111s on support missions. They like to dive down to 200 AGL when they pass a waypoint.

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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 8:33:47 PM   
BeirutDude


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I don't ever let the mission pass a waypoint, I keep moving the waypoint ahead of them so they are always in transit.

I think we have reached the same way to do this, but if I play it again I think setting up nine (9) individual support missions tracking along the flight path. Each would have 1 or 2 KC-135s, 2 (one with 3) KC-10s, 2 or 3 F-111Fs and every other one with a single EF-111A. Then track each support mission parallel, but slight off of each other, so that each has their own individual track. That makes keeping them sorted easier. Then you just assign the refueling aircraft to hit the tankers in their mission, and remove the waypoints just ahead of the mission as they approach it.

In any case, the strikers are refueled and the KC-10s are just about to drink off the 135s. To keep with the spirit of history and the scenario, will send the 135s back to England.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/26/2020 8:34:30 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 20
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 8:58:03 PM   
BeirutDude


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Yeah, OK, that's one of the things I hit before. When the KC-135s refuel the KC-10s they seem to be restricted to 230 mph and drop to the back of the formation. So now that I realize the refuelers are faster at 36 than 26 kft will keep the strikers at 480 mph and then the KC-10s are done refueling kick them up to 520 mph until they lead the formation again. That should give me a good airspeed and allow the formation to sort out for the next refueling north of Algeria.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 21
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/26/2020 11:32:47 PM   
BeirutDude


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OK so trying the above idea for the Med. Six Support Missions/Tracks set up with 2-4 KC-10s, 2-4 F-111Fs, and 0-1 EF-111A per Mission/Track.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 22
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/27/2020 1:42:37 AM   
BeirutDude


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From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
Setting up for the last refueling before beginning the strike, lead aircraft are the KC-10s followed by the F-111F's and then the Ravens. Three KC-10s have dropped out as they stayed at 230 mph after the refueling despite MULTIPLE attempts to bring them up to mission speed. There is sooooo much micromanaging that I'm playing it in real time. The three don't matter as all five missions have enough refuelers to tank up before the attack. all the KC-10s will go into a holding box west of Sicily. And since it has taken me longer to get the game aircraft here than the real mission I'm calling it a night. Set up the Carrier missions next time. we're 30 minutes from the Carriers aircraft being ready so the timing isn't all that bad after all and I hit the Strait of Gibraltar about Launch +3:10. Did have to send 2 KC-135s to Rota as they got hung up in the Exclusion zone and kept banding their heads into it. Didn't think they had enough fuel left to make England, and I doubt the Spanish would notice two 135s as being out of the ordinary.

So feel pretty good about things right now!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 23
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/27/2020 2:32:25 AM   
Kushan04


Posts: 470
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

Setting up for the last refueling before beginning the strike, lead aircraft are the KC-10s followed by the F-111F's and then the Ravens. Three KC-10s have dropped out as they stayed at 230 mph after the refueling despite MULTIPLE attempts to bring them up to mission speed. There is sooooo much micromanaging that I'm playing it in real time. The three don't matter as all five missions have enough refuelers to tank up before the attack. all the KC-10s will go into a holding box west of Sicily. And since it has taken me longer to get the game aircraft here than the real mission I'm calling it a night. Set up the Carrier missions next time. we're 30 minutes from the Carriers aircraft being ready so the timing isn't all that bad after all and I hit the Strait of Gibraltar about Launch +3:10. Did have to send 2 KC-135s to Rota as they got hung up in the Exclusion zone and kept banding their heads into it. Didn't think they had enough fuel left to make England, and I doubt the Spanish would notice two 135s as being out of the ordinary.

So feel pretty good about things right now!





You look like your ahead of schedule. TOT isn't until 0000 Zulu which is 0200 Libya Time.

_____________________________


(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 24
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/28/2020 12:24:28 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1658
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
Strikes inbound. Think the TOT is way off, but I was going to loose it with the F-111s and fuel. So yes got there too early!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 25
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/28/2020 12:58:45 AM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1658
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
And I lost it.

The F-111s turned back just before feet dry for a couple of reasons, one of which was fuel and the other I will keep to myself to avoid a spoiler. I guess they were Bingo for flying all the way back to England even though IMHO they had plenty to get back to the tanker holding box. So they turned back to tank up from the KC-10s with about 50% fuel.

So excellent research, and well done but too much micromanagement for my taste, and apparently skills . I felt like I was flying each and every plane, which is fine for a smaller scenario but too much for me in this one. Like I said I had to play it on real time just to keep everything in line.

My one suggestion is you might add areas where the F-111s should refuel with locked RPs, I'm pretty sure the air crews would have had that calculated for them. We used to use a flight program for planning that took the forecast winds en route and calculated fuel and refueling points as well as divert fields.

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/28/2020 1:01:38 AM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 26
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/28/2020 4:29:28 AM   
Kushan04


Posts: 470
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Strikes inbound. Think the TOT is way off, but I was going to loose it with the F-111s and fuel. So yes got there too early!


The Zulu time is right, The local Tripoli time is behind an hour. 0000 Zulu should be 0200 Tripoli time but the game doesn't seem to display the 0200 correctly. Seems it doesn't take into account DST.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

And I lost it.

The F-111s turned back just before feet dry for a couple of reasons, one of which was fuel and the other I will keep to myself to avoid a spoiler. I guess they were Bingo for flying all the way back to England even though IMHO they had plenty to get back to the tanker holding box. So they turned back to tank up from the KC-10s with about 50% fuel.

So excellent research, and well done but too much micromanagement for my taste, and apparently skills . I felt like I was flying each and every plane, which is fine for a smaller scenario but too much for me in this one. Like I said I had to play it on real time just to keep everything in line.

My one suggestion is you might add areas where the F-111s should refuel with locked RPs, I'm pretty sure the air crews would have had that calculated for them. We used to use a flight program for planning that took the forecast winds en route and calculated fuel and refueling points as well as divert fields.


When and were was the final refueling? The final refueling off of Algeria should have given you enough fuel to strike and get back. May also have been a speed issue. 350-400kts is generally what I use for cruising. I find it also helps to make sure if your using a strike mission to make sure the "RTB when Bingo" ROE is unchecked.

Out of curiosity, how many aircraft had to turn back due to the spoiler? Just a number will be fine, although anyone who reads the briefing should be able to figure it out :)

I haven't found a way past the micromanagement issue. I struggle with it myself. I normally speed up between refueling points and slow down as I approach the next one. Never going over 2x or 5x time compression.

Reference points for the approximate refueling areas are going to be in the next version.

Thank you for the feedback! I really appreciate it.

_____________________________


(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 27
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/28/2020 2:16:40 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1658
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
EDIT: So before you read the rest, I have found the Time Warp! I actually saved Monday night under a different file name than I did on Sunday night and forgot about that ("Fog of COVID") so I can actually go back and fix last night's mistakes!!!!! I almost feel like James T Kirk here!


1. I tanked them up off eastern Algeria and northern Tunisia, fuel shouldn't have been the issue.

2. I did move the aircraft too fast. Maybe I missed it in the side briefing, but you might suggest an average aircraft speed of 350-400 if I did. I was averaging more around 440-480 mph, so yeah got there ahead of schedule.

3. Will PM you with why some of the RTBs occurred. EDIT: check your inbox

4. Now to be honest, my wife and I are both fighting COVID-19 (with my wife being much worse them myself). I was really having problems concentrating last night and was really, really agitated. I looked over the situation this morning (luckily I saved and stopped as soon as the F-111s turned back) and I think it is more than salvageable. I need to go in and turn off the Bingo Fuel as you pointed out and break up a few aircraft groups. Actually this may resolve the TOT issues. I have my KC-10s in groups of 2 with one single aircraft. I'm going to use the single KC-10 to refuel as many of the KC-10 groups as it can and send to Rota (I think that is in the spirit of Rota's intended use, and emergency base. And again really, would the Spanish have looked twice at a single tanker????).

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 4/28/2020 2:51:32 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 28
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/28/2020 5:59:08 PM   
Kushan04


Posts: 470
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
2. I did move the aircraft too fast. Maybe I missed it in the side briefing, but you might suggest an average aircraft speed of 350-400 if I did. I was averaging more around 440-480 mph, so yeah got there ahead of schedule.


Concept of Operations Section 5
quote:

{5} OVERFLIGHT OF FRANCE AND SPAIN WAS REQUESTED BUT DENIED. AIR FORCE STRIKE FORCE WILL PROCEED AT LOW LEVEL AROUND THE IBERIAN PENINSULA. PLANNED ALTITUDE AND SPEED IS 360 AGL AT 400 KTS.


Hope you and your wife make fully recoveries BeiruteDude.

_____________________________


(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 29
RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon, 1986 - Remade for CMO! - 4/28/2020 6:33:32 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1658
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

{5} OVERFLIGHT OF FRANCE AND SPAIN WAS REQUESTED BUT DENIED. AIR FORCE STRIKE FORCE WILL PROCEED AT LOW LEVEL AROUND THE IBERIAN PENINSULA. PLANNED ALTITUDE AND SPEED IS 360 AGL AT 400 KTS.



Ooooops!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to Kushan04)
Post #: 30
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