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Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/16/2020 5:01:36 PM   
Jason Petho


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Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - April 16, 2020

As part of our usual transparency, we are letting you know of how the game will release. In an effort to get the game to you sooner, we will be splitting up the game into the following:

Campaign Series Vietnam: 1948-1967 (which will include a little over 100 scenarios)

DLC #1 - Campaign Series Vietnam 1968-1979 (although the OOB's will continue to 1985 and also include about 100 scenarios)

DLC #2 - Campaign Series Vietnam: Korean War (While this will focus on the Korean War, there will be some hypothetical fighting as well.

DLC #3 - Campaign Series Vietnam: Malayan Emergency 1948-1960

The primary reason for this is to get something for you to play sooner rather than later. I won't offer a release date for the core game (although we're aiming for the first half of 2021).

Why the delay? Well, we're trying to build an exceptionally robust and realistic AI and this is a huge endeavor, especially when considering the complexity of the Vietnam War; the tactics, the strategy, the weapon systems and so on. Should we have started with East Front III for the AI? Probably, but alas, we didn't.

That being said, the efforts we are doing on the AI is making this game like nothing you've seen or experienced before. As 97% of our users, based on our polls, will play again the AI at some point, we've focused all of our efforts to provide the best experience we can. On the bright side, once this core AI has been developed, additional games will be able to be released more regularly.

It is worth the wait and we appreciate your patience.

As an aside, while our focus is heavily on Vietnam, there is also work being done on East Front III.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 4/16/2020 5:05:48 PM >


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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/16/2020 10:55:03 PM   
chris_merchant

 

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thanks for the UPDATE Jason :)

Will EFIII benefit from the AI work that is being done in CSV?

cheers

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/17/2020 1:45:51 AM   
Jason Petho


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Absolutely, yes!

Scripting the East Front III scenarios will be significantly easier than Vietnam scenarios, so that's a bonus! But all the advances that the AI is being taught will be carried over to East Front III.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/17/2020 5:52:19 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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I think this is a sensible approach and I am happy to pay for each and ever instalment. Only observation I would make is that for the Malayan Emergency 1948-1960 DLC I think you might struggle to find much in the way of clashes at a battalion level (which I understand is the ideal bottom of the size range for CS series games) and above.

Guess this one is some years down the line in any case but you might want to give consideration to adding in to it the Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1963–66 which involved much larger forces and could have easily escalated into a full scale war between the Commonwealth and Indonesia. Some very interesting almost history here.

Also by the time you bring this one out you should already have all the British and other Commonwealth units and their associated graphics files from CSME and the earlier modules of the Vietnam game thus just leaving the Indonesian army and their irregular allies to add in with their eclectic mix of American and Soviet equipment.

Kind regards
Ian

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/17/2020 5:56:47 PM   
Jason Petho


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Yes, good point, Ian. I was doing some reading about it last night and there is very little sizable combat apart from a few clashes, but most of those are platoon size.

Good point about the Indonesia-Malaysian conflict, that might be better indeed!

Of course, as always, always open to other suggestions!

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 4/17/2020 5:57:01 PM >


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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/18/2020 10:59:10 AM   
Andrea G


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I fully support the new schedule with Vietnam being broken down in DLCs

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/18/2020 5:23:57 PM   
Jason Petho


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Thank you for the support, Andrea!

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/18/2020 9:41:08 PM   
budd


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Just call me when i can buy it

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/19/2020 4:38:51 AM   
Jason Petho


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Definitely will, budd!

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/23/2020 3:23:53 PM   
carll11


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holy christ 2021.......

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/23/2020 3:26:12 PM   
Jason Petho


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Alas, yes, if you want it done right, it takes time.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/28/2020 6:25:34 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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Hi Jason
I have been doing some further reading on the “Confrontation” undeclared war between the Commonwealth and Indonesia in the early 1960’s and it is clear that the low level of the clashes mean that it is not a very good candidate for CSVN DLC content either as must of the clashes were no larger than company level. Like the Malayan Emergency it might be better covered in a Squad Battles or “BA2” mod. Steel Panthers MTB for Windows also has the relevant nations and units to do the war already.

Given the number of CS titles and their associated DLC you want to bring out I am not really sure that a 3rd CSVN DLC is really worth it and would suggest that the time not spent on it could be better devoted to getting the Iran/Iraq War DLC out the door quicker.

BTW currently in the middle of reading “The Iran-Iraq War” by Pierre Razoux and Nicholas Elliott. I have only got as far as late 1982 but there would appear to be considerable material here to serve as a starting point for quite a number of Brigade/Division level scenarios.

Kind regards
Ian

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/28/2020 6:51:55 PM   
Jason Petho


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Also good points, Ian!

Yes, that might be a wiser thing to do for sure. There is some good material for making the Iran/Iraq War DLC. OOB's are a challenge, of course.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 4/30/2020 9:36:25 PM   
budd


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Question: Is the movement ability of disrupted units being changed/adjusted at all?

I've been playing CSME pbem a bit lately and this has always kind of bugged me. Example, I have 4 strength disrupted tank unit, there is only one unit in my tank units LOS, a 2 strength [disrupted] infantry unit 1600 yards to my north. There is out of my units LOS to the west about 2000 yards a disrupted 2 strength enemy tank unit with a 2 strength non-disrupted enemy infantry unit, these units are seen by my some of my other units. My unit is on the map edge so no movement south. This is a scenario where you have to exit units for VP's. The only choice for movement is basically retreat to the east, the unit's been disrupted for quite a few turns. Had an HQ stacked by eventually had to move on. This scenario comes up a lot more in exit VP scenarios, and can be quite frustrating.

Hope I've explained it well enough.

So is any changes to disrupted units ability to move being considered? degrading ZOC? unit ability to harm disrupted unit? disrupted units preventing other disrupted units from moving?

This is an open question, curious what other people's opinions on this are.

Also is Slitherine PBEM+ being considered as an addition?
What about the ability ina pbem game to send your opponent a message?

Thanks

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/1/2020 3:35:00 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

Question: Is the movement ability of disrupted units being changed/adjusted at all?

I've been playing CSME pbem a bit lately and this has always kind of bugged me. Example, I have 4 strength disrupted tank unit, there is only one unit in my tank units LOS, a 2 strength [disrupted] infantry unit 1600 yards to my north. There is out of my units LOS to the west about 2000 yards a disrupted 2 strength enemy tank unit with a 2 strength non-disrupted enemy infantry unit, these units are seen by my some of my other units. My unit is on the map edge so no movement south. This is a scenario where you have to exit units for VP's. The only choice for movement is basically retreat to the east, the unit's been disrupted for quite a few turns. Had an HQ stacked by eventually had to move on. This scenario comes up a lot more in exit VP scenarios, and can be quite frustrating.

Hope I've explained it well enough.

So is any changes to disrupted units ability to move being considered? degrading ZOC? unit ability to harm disrupted unit? disrupted units preventing other disrupted units from moving?

This is an open question, curious what other people's opinions on this are.

Also is Slitherine PBEM+ being considered as an addition?
What about the ability ina pbem game to send your opponent a message?

Thanks


While the movement of disrupted units has not been considered, the way that units recover from disruption, or become disrupted in the first place, has been changed in Vietnam.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/1/2020 7:36:29 PM   
budd


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Thx for the reply. It's just a bit frustrating in exit scenarios having units stuck in disruption turn after turn with tight scenario time lines. Don't really notice it as much in straight "take the VP's scenarios". Looking forward to playing Vietnam

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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/1/2020 8:04:44 PM   
Jason Petho


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You may have to withdraw to a more morale friendly hex to help the disruption recover? I presume there are no leaders within range?

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/1/2020 9:56:00 PM   
budd


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Tried withdraw and stack with leader, but with the tight time lines you can't wait to long. No choice sometimes but withdraw, got to get the unit out of LOF if possible to recover. The last one was AIW scenario, i know those haven't been worked over much, those are hit and miss for pbem. Don't want to clutter this thread, i'll post the final shot of the battle in the CSME screenshots thread, it was fun to play, slugfest.



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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/12/2020 5:57:41 PM   
SwampYankee68


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This one is on my radar and if they offer it, a pre-order with a printed manual. It looks great and with these plans, sounds better! I was unaware you all were working on EF3. Looking forward to that as well!

Any Chance Talonsoft's Rising Sun Campaigns game will get this treatment? It was a good game but it came out late in the series... By then I was a little tired of the engine's issues.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/12/2020 6:00:43 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

Any Chance Talonsoft's Rising Sun Campaigns game will get this treatment?


Yes, it will indeed! It will be referred to as Pacific Front.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 5/12/2020 6:06:48 PM   
SwampYankee68


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That is fantastic!

Another to look forward to!

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 6/11/2020 7:54:33 PM   
gregb41352

 

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So much waiting for this. Are you at a stable alpha version yet?

(hoping to be a beta tester for this)

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 6/11/2020 8:33:46 PM   
Jason Petho


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We have continuous ALPHA's, yes, but there are modifications/improvements in a weekly basis, so the ALPHA's are in flux.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 6/18/2020 12:20:43 AM   
ringoblood


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Jason looks great. In what DLC if at all will there be a random or custom map generator, like in Mid East. other then that this looks great, in total agreement with sch. Looks great.

Josh

< Message edited by ringoblood -- 6/18/2020 12:21:13 AM >


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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 6/18/2020 2:37:11 AM   
Jason Petho


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The map editor will come with the base game, Vietnam 1.00.

Of course, there will be master maps included, but they don't cover the whole country for obvious reasons.

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 6/18/2020 12:06:00 PM   
FOARP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoplite1963

I think this is a sensible approach and I am happy to pay for each and ever instalment. Only observation I would make is that for the Malayan Emergency 1948-1960 DLC I think you might struggle to find much in the way of clashes at a battalion level (which I understand is the ideal bottom of the size range for CS series games) and above.

Guess this one is some years down the line in any case but you might want to give consideration to adding in to it the Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1963–66 which involved much larger forces and could have easily escalated into a full scale war between the Commonwealth and Indonesia. Some very interesting almost history here.

Also by the time you bring this one out you should already have all the British and other Commonwealth units and their associated graphics files from CSME and the earlier modules of the Vietnam game thus just leaving the Indonesian army and their irregular allies to add in with their eclectic mix of American and Soviet equipment.

Kind regards
Ian



Throw in a scenario focusing on the Brunei revolt of 1962, the Indonesian revolt against the Netherlands, as well as the Konfrontasi and I think that would fill it out.

In contrast, Korea is a huge war for a DLC TBH. Easily could be a game by itself. Just off the top of my head: Pork Chop Hill, Gloucester Hill/Imjin River (multiple battles), Naktong Bulge, Chosin Reservoir (multiple battles), Operation KILLER (multiple battles), Kapyong, Inchon landings, Operation Thunderbolt (multiple battles) etc. etc. etc.

< Message edited by FOARP -- 6/18/2020 12:50:44 PM >

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RE: Campaign Series Vietnam: General Update - 8/26/2020 1:31:56 PM   
FOARP

 

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PS - on the question of including a Malayan Emergency DLC, and noting that in the screen shot there appears to be a column of about 40 ARVN soldiers and this appears to be about a minimum number of units you would want to have one one side in a scenario, I note the following strengths for the largest battles of the Malayan Emergency/Brunei Revolt/Konfrontasi (i.e., all of those where the strength of both sides was more than 20, which weren't totally one-sided):

Labis (Malaya, 1950): 2 platoons of B Company Ghurka Rgt versus ~40 CTs.
Bukit Kepong: 25 Malayan Police versus ~180 CTs.
Semur River: 25 men of 12th Platoon, D company, 3rd Bat., Malayan Rgt. versus 40 CTs.
Limbang raid (Brunei, 1962): L Company, 42 Commando, Royal Marines versus 150 TNKU
Long Jawai (Borneo, 1963): Mixed force of ~30 Ghurkas and Malay border scouts versus ~200 Indonesians
Labis (1963): 1 company of Ghurkas versus ~100 Indonesian paras
Plaman Mapu: 36 British soliders versus 150-400 Indonesians
Sungei Koemba:2 platoons of B company 3 RAR versus a battalion of Indonesians
Kindau: 1 platoon of A company 3 RAR versus ~100 Indonesians
Babang : 1 platton of C company 3 RAR versus 30 Indonesians
Bau: Roughly a company strength on both sides

So possibly you could have ten scenarios, so long as it is acceptable to have at most a company on each side.

< Message edited by FOARP -- 8/26/2020 1:34:36 PM >


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