Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

OT China v Japan from the German prospective

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> OT China v Japan from the German prospective Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/16/2020 8:34:28 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6020
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
If you read German this is a probably a good read. Probably as I don't. There's even a Chinese and Japanese Kreigsgliederung for an Inf Div!

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/nodes/1019

Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/16/2020 11:00:05 AM   
Leandros


Posts: 1586
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

If you read German this is a probably a good read. Probably as I don't. There's even a Chinese and Japanese Kreigsgliederung for an Inf Div!

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/nodes/1019

Thank you for posting!

These are post WW2-captured German papers retrieved from Russian archives. This German report - an analysis on the supply and development of the Chinese Army till then - was issued in April 1938. It is very interesting and - as an appreciation - quite accurate as history proved. It also states that China had few problems - during this period, anyway - with supplying its fast developing army, financed as it was by western sources. From this it is "understandable" that the Japanese wanted desperately to close off the supply routes through South China, Indochina and Burma.

Fred

P.S.: Having gone a little further in the text it has some unexpected conclusions on the Japanese army leadership and the soldierly behaviour on various levels. Against this, the Chinese lower-rank soldier is ranked higher.

< Message edited by Leandros -- 4/16/2020 11:13:32 AM >


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 2
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/16/2020 11:22:31 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3049
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline
Grr...Google Translator is not quite to that level yet where it can help with that. Maybe in a few years. Babel fish anyone?

_____________________________

x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 3
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/16/2020 5:46:14 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25292
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
I'm currently reading "Tower of Skulls" that gives detailed discussion of the War in China from 1937 or so onwards. Significant discussion of the Japanese:Russian conflict leading into 1940 and how the Japanese fear of the Russians involvement in the Far East against Japan shaped the Japanese approach to war with the UK and USA. Recommended for an overview of these political and military machinations.

_____________________________


(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 4
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/16/2020 7:01:41 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14638
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Danke Schön.

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 2/21 it is 5/45.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/18/2020 2:44:33 AM   
Fishbed

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

P.S.: Having gone a little further in the text it has some unexpected conclusions on the Japanese army leadership and the soldierly behaviour on various levels. Against this, the Chinese lower-rank soldier is ranked higher.


Interesting. Books the likes of Soldiers of the Sun do have some pretty grim and damning trivia about IJA ops in China, that tend to show that it was not alway - as a whole - the kind of efficiency that shocked the world in Malaya. Like any conscripted army at any rate.

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 6
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/18/2020 10:06:08 AM   
Leandros


Posts: 1586
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

P.S.: Having gone a little further in the text it has some unexpected conclusions on the Japanese army leadership and the soldierly behaviour on various levels. Against this, the Chinese lower-rank soldier is ranked higher.


Interesting. Books the likes of Soldiers of the Sun do have some pretty grim and damning trivia about IJA ops in China, that tend to show that it was not alway - as a whole - the kind of efficiency that shocked the world in Malaya. Like any conscripted army at any rate.

It should be underlined that this report was from April 1938.

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 7
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/18/2020 5:53:25 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25292
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

P.S.: Having gone a little further in the text it has some unexpected conclusions on the Japanese army leadership and the soldierly behaviour on various levels. Against this, the Chinese lower-rank soldier is ranked higher.


Interesting. Books the likes of Soldiers of the Sun do have some pretty grim and damning trivia about IJA ops in China, that tend to show that it was not alway - as a whole - the kind of efficiency that shocked the world in Malaya. Like any conscripted army at any rate.

It should be underlined that this report was from April 1938.

Fred



That's really important as a distinction. 1937 was awful for the Chinese. Chinese defensive efforts in 1938 were decent, but not great. 1939 and 1940 were a different story and they did comparatively poorly in those years. So fits and starts to the Chinese effort: overall not great with some real catastrophes in there and a smaller handful of solid ripostes to the Japanese.

_____________________________


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 8
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/19/2020 1:17:30 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 1883
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline
Here a related video (you can also find on the same channel a vid "British thoughts on the Japanese" plus "Japanese thoughts on the Germans"):

"What did the German Army think about the Japanese Army? There is a report from 1938 about the Japanese and Chinese performance and experiences in the Second Sino-Japanese War. It covers various topics like motorization and air-ground cooperation, but the concluding remarks about the Japanese Forces for an upcoming "Great War" ("großen Krieg") are especially interesting.
This is the first video in the "from the Archives" series, where I take a look at primary sources and add some context and discussion.":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCpq-A5bT5Y

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/19/2020 1:32:16 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 9
RE: OT China v Japan from the German prospective - 4/20/2020 6:36:46 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6020
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
There ae quite a few German doc on the subject in the germandocsinrussia.org website.

(in reply to Alpha77)
Post #: 10
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> OT China v Japan from the German prospective Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.273