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Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/12/2020 6:08:55 PM   
Q-Ball


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What is the hotkey to show all active search arcs and ranges? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Could be I am looking in the wrong place, but figure someone know off the top of their head.

Also, are Search Arcs worth it? I know that's a longer question

Happy Easter and thanks in advance!!!!

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/12/2020 6:16:08 PM   
821Bobo


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'z'

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/12/2020 9:26:21 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

'z'


Thanks! All the better to close air search gaps! Like off the Marshall Islands.....

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/13/2020 12:54:48 PM   
Ian R

 

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Search arcs - I think they are only worth it in two situations -

- you have multiple air groups flying searches from a base with a limited sea area adjacent -e.g. west out of San Fran, East out of Townsville, etc. This heading also covers the situation where you are flying naval searches specifically to cover your convoy routes down past Christmas Island an d on to Fiji, etc. There too, you want a limited search arc to scare off surface raiders, and make subs submerge.

- you have already detected a threat and you are vectoring your searches temporarily, e.g. the KB was seen heading down from Truk so you are actively focusing on tracking it.

Otherwise, random arcs work well enough.

Beware though, the spotting info on an enemy TF is likely yesterday's news, so set you searches accordingly.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 4/13/2020 12:56:26 PM >


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Ian R

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/13/2020 2:14:33 PM   
dr.hal


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I would like to think that the Developers knew what they were about when they put in all the programing that allows for directional searches. If there was no advantage, I doubt such things would exist. Therefore, I believe they are important. In real life this is known as a threat vector. If you know a threat comes from a particular direction it only makes sense to concentrated limited resources in that direction. Ian's remarks are accurate but I would go further. If the threat direction is known to a high degree, it's fair to say concentrate if you don't have excessive resources. If you're playing defense and have a "line of advance" (even it it's to the rear) it makes sense to concentrate resources along that line. So there are many reasons to use the arcs. Yes of course something can come "out of the blue" but then again when can we protect our units at all times from all directions? It takes tough decisions to run a war, that's why you were put into command (electronically speaking), to make those decisions.

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/15/2020 7:44:57 PM   
kbfchicago


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the "z" (search arcs) key and the "6" (patrol zones - specifically helping overlap and manage sub patrol zones) are the two most worn key's on the board here... both invaluable.

When I saw the post earlier I was hesitating on weighing in on explicit vs. random search zone conversation...but Ian and Hal both did, so I'll lend my 2 cents here as well.

Expect like many of us I spent hours during my first few years playing AE painstakingly managing explicit search arcs. Then there were a number of posts/threads back about five years ago that agonized over the value of one vs. the other. I think both Ian and Hal's points are technically correct (not allot of difference except in specific circumstances & why did they bother to program if they are not of value). I wish I'd earmarks the earlier discussions...but my take away from them was random is almost always better (not to mention much easier!).

I will likely do this a bit of a disservice but my recollection of the prior discussion was that:
- with explicit the computer logic checks if your AC and the potential searched target is in the arc at the time you have covered before figuring out if you actually saw something in the arc.
- with random, you get a chance to find anything, at any time. So one (virtual) die roll vs. a series of two successful rolls to get a positive result (layman's example of what I'm sure is a complex set of logic routines and has every programer on the forum rolling their eyes at my ignorance)

In practice my unscientific observation is random arcs have not failed me. I use them (almost) exclusively, as Ian noted there are a few special circumstances, generally around land masses that cover most of the random 360 degree arc, I just 'feel' better using explicit. I now never use explicit arc for Task Forces (CV, surface, et.al), always use random there. I believe I do as well or better than I did with explicit arcs.

Would make a good sandbox test if I ever get a few days with nothing to do...

Happy gaming,

Kevin


< Message edited by kbfchicago -- 4/15/2020 7:51:52 PM >

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/16/2020 3:40:50 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago I now never use explicit arc for Task Forces (CV, surface, et.al), always use random there


I agree with that; setting arcs based on yesterday's sightings in a rapidly changing situation where you can't change them again until tomorrow, is not recommended.

To amplify one thing, if you are using air cover to protect your convoy routes, you might want to set your airgroup to something like 20% naval attack, 50% search, 20% rest, 10% train. The aircraft on naval strike hardly ever actually fly a mission, so they almost count as an extra 20% rest, keeping your Ops losses low. A string of SBD/SBU/SBC groups down the convoy route deters surface raiders quite handily.



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Ian R

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/16/2020 11:29:17 AM   
Knavey

 

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Random arcs for the most part have worked for me...but in a place like Darwin, it seems like a complete waste of resources to not have them set for 270-90 search pattern or vice versa. If the programming is set up as designed, then you either double your chances to find something, or half your guys don't fly and the pilots and airframes do not fatigue.

Don't know which, but logically it seems that you don't want to be searching south into North Oz for submarines or KB. Although that would make an interesting Combat Report.

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/16/2020 3:28:26 PM   
kbfchicago


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavery
Don't know which, but logically it seems that you don't want to be searching south into North Oz for submarines or KB. Although that would make an interesting Combat Report.


Yea...I recall there was some debate on this in the older posts; if a random search arc covers land are the flights re-routed to water. I don't recall there was a conclusion which is why in these circumstances I still use explicit. At some point 40% land? 20% land? it's likely mote, no opinion on what the % is, my rough rule of thumb is around 50%...and how much time I want to spend on that particular turn .

Ian - excellent point, I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so it was quite a while before I figured that out (balance search with attack (Nav or ASW) & training)! Especially helpful for early war Allied with a need to train up/deploy initial low skill pilots and IJ at any point in the war to maximize the training base while filling in operational needs.

This also brings up an additional use for explicit arcs. A single Sqdn doing double duty as in Ian's post (e.g. 60% search, 20% ASW, 10% Tng, 10% rest) with low(er) plane counts due to split missions as well as coastal duty (like Knavery's Darwin example) I'll use explicit zones, especially for ASW (or whatever is the smaller of two missions) part of the mission. But as before, when it's mostly water (e.g. around an atoll), it's all set to random.

Kevin

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Post #: 9
RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/16/2020 5:01:34 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavery
Don't know which, but logically it seems that you don't want to be searching south into North Oz for submarines or KB. Although that would make an interesting Combat Report.


Yea...I recall there was some debate on this in the older posts; if a random search arc covers land are the flights re-routed to water. I don't recall there was a conclusion which is why in these circumstances I still use explicit. At some point 40% land? 20% land? it's likely mote, no opinion on what the % is, my rough rule of thumb is around 50%...and how much time I want to spend on that particular turn .

Ian - excellent point, I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so it was quite a while before I figured that out (balance search with attack (Nav or ASW) & training)! Especially helpful for early war Allied with a need to train up/deploy initial low skill pilots and IJ at any point in the war to maximize the training base while filling in operational needs.

This also brings up an additional use for explicit arcs. A single Sqdn doing double duty as in Ian's post (e.g. 60% search, 20% ASW, 10% Tng, 10% rest) with low(er) plane counts due to split missions as well as coastal duty (like Knavery's Darwin example) I'll use explicit zones, especially for ASW (or whatever is the smaller of two missions) part of the mission. But as before, when it's mostly water (e.g. around an atoll), it's all set to random.

Kevin


Good feedback all around! I recall similar debates way back in the day, and I've always played using random except when there's a big landmass in play, like Darwin.

Also, good to see a fellow Chicagoan on the board! Did you enjoy that snow yesterday morning?

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/18/2020 9:49:57 AM   
LeeChard

 

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One thing to keep in mind; no matter what you set your search arc to you still get 360 degrees coverage for about
4 hexes from the base or ship you take off from.

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RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/18/2020 1:13:54 PM   
kbfchicago


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Lee - I had not heard that prior to your post. Interesting...especially for the earlier war/shorter range AC. What's your source on this or just an observation on your part?

Sorry Q, no snow here, I've been displaced many times since I started my Yahoo mail account from whence my forum name derives. Now in NC, prior to that VA, etc... Still have family outside the Windy City, far NorthWest burbs. Born a Cheese Head but did most of my grown up in the Chicago area.

Happy Gaming,

Kevin

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Post #: 12
RE: Question on Search Arcs Hotkey - 4/18/2020 1:26:52 PM   
Sardaukar


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It's in FAQ.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

Section 10.0

Note that even if search arcs are set, aircraft will still do a full 360° search over a 4 hex range.


< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 4/18/2020 1:29:08 PM >


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