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RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 1:55:39 AM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I'll play against one of you as Japanese. Michael is pretty fiendish as a Japanese possibility. Michael--what say you?

Gonna have dinner then go thru everything.

Expect files tonight.

GP is a smart ass! OK. We keep everything here for commentary.



I will let Kitakami make his choice and I will take who is left.


Thank you for the deference, Nomad.

The choice is between a rock and a hard place... hmm... I will be utterly defeated by John 3rd, then. Morituri te salutamus!

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 121
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 2:05:07 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
Got all of it done but the US Torps.

HOW do I reflect the dud rate change? Do I create three variants of the Mk 14 device that improves with time?

Don't be afraid Kitakami. I can be gentle and tender...

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 122
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 2:20:35 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
Pulled up a Big B Scenario and am figuring the Torps out.


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 123
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 2:24:43 AM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
Here is how big b did it.

He created a new device, #1997 as shown. He modified the normal device #1594.
All of the early subs( this excludes the Balau and Tench one ) have their first
(12/41) torpedo weapon slots set to be 1997. The normal updates on 4/42 will change
the device to 1594.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 124
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 2:39:25 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
Got it. Had to create a new device, link it to the Mk 14, and click about 70 starting American SS to make sure it was correct.

Creating new Folders for mailing everyone.

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 125
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 2:40:19 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Here is how big b did it.

He created a new device, #1997 as shown. He modified the normal device #1594.
All of the early subs( this excludes the Balau and Tench one ) have their first
(12/41) torpedo weapon slots set to be 1997. The normal updates on 4/42 will change
the device to 1594.







We were working on the same thing at the same time Nomad. Great minds think a like!!!


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 126
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:02:21 AM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
You do not change the ships file, but change the ship class file.

_____________________________


(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 127
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:03:25 AM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4648
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
Michael, are you up to play testing as Japan?

_____________________________


(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 128
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:06:15 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
OK. Scenario 72 BTSH ready to go. For those playing this Mod, please make sure BOTH sides read the following scenario description:



ALTNAV 1922-1941 (01/08/19)

These Mods are available for AE and have been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.



The Washington Conference

Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:

1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.

b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).

2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked with slighly increased carrier tonnage allowed bringing a slightly different creation to each flee'ts starting CV forces::
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.

b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed.

c. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make create a solid CVL, after the failed design of the Ranger, named King's Mountain and Wasp becomes a 4th Yorktown-Class CV.

d. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.


3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.

The London Conference

Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs while the Allied Forces have 18 each.

2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.

3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.

***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds two additional Myoko-Class CAs and completes the Mogami-Class as CAs instead of CLs. The oldest Japanese CAs (Kako and Furutaka-Classes) are downgraded to CLs with 6" guns replacing the 8" turrets.



Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Between the Storms: Heavy allows Japan to focus on big gunned warships instead of the more 'conventional' warships in BTS: L.
Battleship Question and Decision

Staying historical the Japanese decide to build the super-battleships of the Yamato-Class. All four are represented in this Mod. Shinano and Aki are built as BBs and they will use BUCKETS of shipyard points but they are Japan's for the asking.

Fuji-Class Light Battlecruisers

The perceived success of the Chichibu Battlecruiser leads Japan to follow the big guns approach with their final class of 'cruisers.' The Japanese follow the example of the Panzerschiff and create a cruiser-killing class of six ships. The Fuji-Class mount 2x2 14" guns, capable secondary, and long lances in an effort to fight the massive American Two-Ocean Naval Build-Up.



The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. To placate the 'big guns' faction in the IJN for more carrier construction, Yamamoto changes the 4th Circle Building Plan to include 2 improved Shokaku-Class carriers, the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class (Shinano and Aki), the building of two Light Battlecruisers (Fuji-Class), an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. A highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 that adds four more Fuji's, four more of the Improved Shokaku's, and the construction of three more CVL using the new CL hull design. This allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944 and is the last PLANNED Japanese ship addition before the war begins. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.

The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.

On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.

The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!

Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. In addition to the changes detailed above, First-class destroyers continue to be accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.

Allied Response

It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.

As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The Chester TF).

As war clouds gather, the Royal Navy moves a pair of battleships from Home Fleet to Ceylon. These ships, Valiant and Queen Elizabeth are further reinforced by Force Z. In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier and her escorts are just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. A Gurkha Brigade is rushed into Singapore along with supplies and two dozen crated Hurricane Fighters. Is it too little, too late?

How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?

Scenario Notes

In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.



Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.



If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 129
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:13:27 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
BTSH Sent to all testers.

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 130
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:51:13 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16822
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
BTSL is sent to everyone.

Scenario Description:


ALTNAV 1922-1941 (01/08/19)

These Mods are available for AE and have been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.

The Washington Conference

Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:

1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.

b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).

2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked with slighly increased carrier tonnage allowed bringing a slightly different creation to each flee'ts starting CV forces::
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.

b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed.

c. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make create a solid CVL, after the failed design of the Ranger, named King's Mountain and Wasp becomes a 4th Yorktown-Class CV.

d. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.


3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.

The London Conference

Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs while the Allied Forces have 18 each.

2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.

3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.

***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds two additional Myoko-Class CAs and completes the Mogami-Class as CAs instead of CLs. The oldest Japanese CAs (Kako and Furutaka-Classes) are downgraded to CLs with 6" guns replacing the 8" turrets.


Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Battleship Question and Decision
After abandoning the Treaty System, great discussion goes into the first new battleships to be built by Japan since the Nagato Class. The choices ends up centering on building two modern, fast conventional battlewagons as opposed to the mighty Yamato-Class. The prohibitive factors of cost, additional shipyard construction and time finally swing the decision to creating the Owari-Class (3x3 16.1" Rifles). While not sounding too exciting this change brings about a very interesting situation. Both Yamato and Musashi required their slipways to be expanded in length. The expansions were hugely expensive and took MONTHS to finish. By building the Owari-Class BBs the Japanese clear these slipways 12-18 months faster. The net result is two modern BBs (28 Knots) join the Kaigun BEFORE Pearl Harbor and their successors (two B-65 Class BCs) are either finished or near complete at war's start. Hoping to stay competitive vis-a-vis the Two Ocean Bill, two additional Owari-Class BBs are laid down just prior to the start of hostilities.

Command Cruisers
While debate rages on about the new battleship design, a new class of heavy cruiser is initiated. The proposed Tone-Class floatplane CA is discarded for a balanced, more capable cruiser. These large cruisers are better called command cruisers. The Niitaka-Class grows to over 15,000 tonnes and carries 4x3 8" guns, heavy torpedo armament, impressive secondaries, and strong floatplane complements. These fast, rugged cruisers are planned to be a six ship class. The initial two are complete at war's start, a second pair coming in late-1942, and a final pair in 1944.


The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan dropping the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class Battleships for two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 and adds the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class BB back into building que. Despite Yamamoto's arguments this allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.
The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.

On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.

The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!

Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.

It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.

As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The Chester TF). In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier is just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. Is it too little, too late?

How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?

In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.



Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.



If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.


Japan deploys its few new ships to protect the Invasion TFs coming from Babeldoap and Cam Rahn Bay as the Kido Butai steams towards its rendezvous with destiny at Pearl Harbor…


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 131
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:52:05 AM   
John 3rd


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Kitakami--What are we playing? Looks like BTSL is needing some love. Is that good for you?

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Post #: 132
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:55:27 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Michael, are you up to play testing as Japan?


I wrote Michael for you. He may have had a busy day.


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Post #: 133
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 5:19:35 AM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Michael, are you up to play testing as Japan?


Looks like it's time to pick up the sword again as a Japanese samurai with a streak of the ninja within me.

So Nomad, which version are we using? Email me any House Rules (HR) and setting preferences. Looks like I know what I'll be doing this weekend...plotting and scheming.

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Post #: 134
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 8:49:32 AM   
Pharnakes

 

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I'll take it out for a spin, any side or scenario.

Might I suggest we set up a discord or something for real time coordination and comparing experiences rather than cluttering this thread up to much? Also a great way to send small files around.

E: Also, where is the art for these new ships? Or is it still using the old art from before?

< Message edited by Pharnakes -- 4/16/2020 8:53:14 AM >

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Post #: 135
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 10:13:55 AM   
Pharnakes

 

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Got things working mostly using the old art from before, although trying to install the plane art (RA4Planeart) make it crash for some weird reason.

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Post #: 136
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 11:20:09 AM   
Pharnakes

 

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Akizuki class DDs

In the DB they are referred to as the Akitsuki class. Akizuki is listed as an Akitsuki class, Akitsuki itself doesn't exist except as the class for Akizuki. Unless theres some reason for this I'd suggest naming the DB class the Akizuki class to clear up any confusion.


This leads me on to a pet gripe of mine: DP guns in SP mounts. Now maybe you regard this as beyond the scope of what you are trying to do here since it's just how it works in vannila but I've always been annoyed by the over (AAA) performance of some DD classes. Looking at the Akizukis compared to the Yugumos is a good example of this.

Akizuki: 4 x 2 10cm/65 on 2700tons Regarded by both sides as a very solid DD, with good, balanced armament.

Yugumo 3 x 3 12.7cm/50 on 2000tons (and has twice as many torps!) Very stong anti surface DDs, totally useless at air defence.

But in game sine the 127/50 has the same stats on a DD as it does mounted on a BB with fully powered turrets and an AA director, the result is one Yugumo with double the torps, 35kn against 33, and better AA is worth at least 2 Akizukis, which is silly. See below stats of the guns from the editor to illustrate my point.

i.imgur.c om/Gzjtgc5.png (sorry, can't post proper links yet because apparently this is still 2003)


This problem is far from confined to the Japanese side, the Porter class is a particularly egregious example from the USN, which are mini Atlantas with a devastating 8 5"/38s, despite the fact that in reality they had no AA capacity at all beyond their 1.1" mounts. Or there is the Tribal class which for some reason goes the other way, equipped with a full high angle fire computer but in game the guns are SP.

This is obviously all a flaw that arises from the game on considering the stats of a gun and not its mounting, if I drew up a list of offenders would you be interested in adding extra devices for DP guns in SP mounts?

(in reply to Pharnakes)
Post #: 137
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 12:15:05 PM   
ny59giants


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OK, now that I'm getting back into this more than assisting John with mod changes, I have a few questions.

1) Who is playing Japan and what version (Lite or Heavy) are you playing?

2) I know John will be using Tracker along with myself to keep the economy running smoothly. Anybody else? If not Tracker, then what do you use?

3) This is more to my fellow Japanese Economics Ministers - the area I want feedback the most as co-modder is this area. What are your plans for expansion of the economy in the first few months? Heavy Industry? Naval Shipyards? Engines? Airframes (to what models and at what pace)? Do we post that here or do we have an email chain on this topic?

4) I'm not really interested in the tactical side of playing testing. So, I will not give out Banzai to John sinking numerous defenseless merchant shipping. Errors in database will earn those.

5) Length of play testing? Feb, March, April, or longer?

6) Utilities - Like I just said, I love Tracker!! Indirectly, this utility was what started my friendship with John many, many years ago. I will be willing to try to assist anybody in getting it up and running. It took me about an hour last May when I went out to visit him. What utilities are you using that you can teach me and others?

Stay safe, healthy, and continue to fight 'cabin fever'

(in reply to Pharnakes)
Post #: 138
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 12:30:45 PM   
Pharnakes

 

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Other issues.

I feel Hermes maybe deserves a refit or two on the off chance she survives?

Something like: end of '42, removing .50s and replacing with 20mms, plus adding some extra 20mms.
Mid-end of '43, removal of 6 5.5" for 6 4" DP or maybe 4 4.5" or 4.7" DP.
Early '44 deck loading doctrine refit to increase capacity to 26, maybe 27, maybe add in some 40mms or some extra 20s.

Renown & Repulse get separate upgrades, with Renown's being far superior albeit 6 months later, is that deliberate? I know that historically Renown was given much more attention at refits, but it seems like if Repulse survived she would have been bought up to Renown's standard?

The Japanese CAVs seem a little optimistic for their tonnage compared to the Allied efforts.

CAV Washington is a Vindictive class(maybe deliberate?) but Melbourne is a Melbourne Class. Since they seem completely identical it seems they should either both be base Vindictive class or else their own class.

Speaking of their spring '44 refit doesn't include a capacity increase to reflect adoption of deck storage of planes, however in comparison to say the Colossus class 36 planes is maybe a little optimistic, although on the other hand I feel the Colossuses (and British light carriers in general) are under represented in their in game capacity.

All of the Unicorn class CVLs enter with only 1 air group, as does Warrior.

Royal Sovereign is missing from the game.

Likewise no sign of Duke of York, Anson or Howe.

Base 855 Howrah has a garrison requirement of 20 but no unit present, prehaps the 3rd Assam rifles (6433) should be moved there from Calcutta?

Base 829 Assanol has a requirement of 25 and no unit present.

Base 826 Allahabad has 15/30 garrison, although that will not be an issue once the unit there recovers.

Base 824 Ahmedabad as well

Base 828 Amritsar is low on garrison and will still be low even at 100% ToE.

Base 886 Sialkot is low but will recover.

Base 887 Sirinigar likewise

Base 692 Trincomalee is short on garrison, seems like such an important base should have some defenders?

Ditto 688 Colombo

Most of Burma is short on garrison, but that might be deliberate I suppose.




(in reply to Pharnakes)
Post #: 139
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 12:55:23 PM   
btd64


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Plus one on the above list. But Larry and I have started BTSL so it's a moot point. We will test through the beginning of February....GP

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(in reply to Pharnakes)
Post #: 140
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 1:35:44 PM   
Nomad

 

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I have WitP Tracker, Combat Reporter and Intel Monkeys all up and running.

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Post #: 141
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:27:43 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

I have WitP Tracker, Combat Reporter and Intel Monkeys all up and running.


Great, I'll need help on the last two.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 142
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:29:38 PM   
John 3rd


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Kitakami and I are doing BTSL.

I will note the comments Pharnakes and do work on the Master File reflecting your observations.

I say we run to Feb 1st. This allows for enough time to see if the Japanese economy is working and find any major early bugs.

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(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 143
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 3:35:31 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Adding to the NOTES and COMMENTS list from Michael:

1) Who is playing Japan and what version (Lite or Heavy) are you playing?

2) I know John will be using Tracker along with myself to keep the economy running smoothly. Anybody else? If not Tracker, then what do you use?

3) This is more to my fellow Japanese Economics Ministers - the area I want feedback the most as co-modder is this area. What are your plans for expansion of the economy in the first few months? Heavy Industry? Naval Shipyards? Engines? Airframes (to what models and at what pace)? Do we post that here or do we have an email chain on this topic?

4.) Length of play testing? February 1, 1942 Is this OK?

5.) Utilities - Like I just said, I love Tracker!! Indirectly, this utility was what started my friendship with John many, many years ago. I will be willing to try to assist anybody in getting it up and running. It took me about an hour last May when I went out to visit him. What utilities are you using that you can teach me and others?

MOD SPECIFIC QUESTIONS
1.) Comments on the 'at start' positions for BOTH sides. Allied Players--Be sure to read the Mod Notes on your side. There are HUGELY different starting places for the Allied Forces and TFs.

2.) Database Errors. We have found a ton already. Keep looking and sound off when you find them!

3.) How about the Political Point number? Does it work?

4.) ALLIED PLAYERS: Does the off-map aircraft purchase system work?



Have FUN gang!

I am starting Turn ONE Prep right now...


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Post #: 144
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 4:36:15 PM   
Kitakami


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Kitakami's profile:

- Will be playing as the Allies against John 3rd. We will be playing BtSL. I do think Japan has the most power with the "Light" version.
- My AE version is 1.8.11.26b.
- I will be using WitPTracker. I also have tons of graphic mods I have installed over the years.
- We will play till Feb '42.
- Taking notes on where everything is. I have not played the Allies in a LOOOOOOOONG time, so I need to remember what is where and decide how to defend what.
- Will report on PPs, pilot training, and plane purchases as the playtest advances.

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Post #: 145
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 6:28:06 PM   
Kitakami


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Unintended consequence of database cleanup:

Bind 410 should be FROM 407 & 408, TO 927. In previous version it was 407 only, and now it is 408 only.

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Post #: 146
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 7:14:02 PM   
John 3rd


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Crap. Thanks Kita.

Turn ONE is sent, on the way, and let the testing begin!!!

I took about half a page of little tweaks, modifications, and changes. Most was little stuff like having SS set to return to a base that didn't have an AS in it.

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(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 147
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 7:22:25 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 38888
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quote:

I took about half a page of little tweaks, modifications, and changes. Most was little stuff like having SS set to return to a base that didn't have an AS in it.

Am I to understand that you are keeping track of the things we find as we find them and that you're making changes to the scenario as these things are found so that there will be a fixed, updated scenario as a result? If so, thank you very much for your hard work and perserverence. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thanks you.

I'm about half-way through my Jap turn 1 preperations so I can send a file to Brian sometime late tonight or early tomorrow morning and we'll be on our way as well. I've played Brian before and I've never won against him. But I've learned a lot and I'm determined to give him a good game this time. Wish me luck.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 148
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 7:52:07 PM   
AdmNelson


Posts: 550
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From: New Mexico
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Adding to the NOTES and COMMENTS list from Michael:

1) Who is playing Japan and what version (Lite or Heavy) are you playing?

2) I know John will be using Tracker along with myself to keep the economy running smoothly. Anybody else? If not Tracker, then what do you use?

3) This is more to my fellow Japanese Economics Ministers - the area I want feedback the most as co-modder is this area. What are your plans for expansion of the economy in the first few months? Heavy Industry? Naval Shipyards? Engines? Airframes (to what models and at what pace)? Do we post that here or do we have an email chain on this topic?

4.) Length of play testing? February 1, 1942 Is this OK?

5.) Utilities - Like I just said, I love Tracker!! Indirectly, this utility was what started my friendship with John many, many years ago. I will be willing to try to assist anybody in getting it up and running. It took me about an hour last May when I went out to visit him. What utilities are you using that you can teach me and others?

MOD SPECIFIC QUESTIONS
1.) Comments on the 'at start' positions for BOTH sides. Allied Players--Be sure to read the Mod Notes on your side. There are HUGELY different starting places for the Allied Forces and TFs.

2.) Database Errors. We have found a ton already. Keep looking and sound off when you find them!

3.) How about the Political Point number? Does it work?

4.) ALLIED PLAYERS: Does the off-map aircraft purchase system work?



Have FUN gang!

I am starting Turn ONE Prep right now...



NorthCarolinaDidNothingWrong and I will kick start tonight. He wants a go at the Japanese side. Right it will lite. Haven't play the allies in a while how does off map purchase system work. Also will be using Tracker. Thanks

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Post #: 149
RE: BTS Play-Testing - 4/16/2020 7:58:03 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
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From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Crap. Thanks Kita.

Turn ONE is sent, on the way, and let the testing begin!!!

I took about half a page of little tweaks, modifications, and changes. Most was little stuff like having SS set to return to a base that didn't have an AS in it.


Turn 1 returned. The heat is on (me)!

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Post #: 150
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