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Movement Cost - 4/5/2020 8:04:48 PM   
William the Silent

 

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It's hard to find answers in the manual so let's ask here:
How do you change movement cost?


< Message edited by William the Silent -- 4/5/2020 8:15:57 PM >
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RE: Movement Cost - 4/5/2020 9:14:51 PM   
Raindem

 

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Need more information on what you are trying to accomplish. Movement values are scattered across several dialogs.

There's movement bias. There's movement cost to convert enemy hexes. There's supply loss due to movement. There's the road scalar value, etc. You can also change movement rates indirectly by fiddling with time and map scale.

Some of these values affect both sides and some can have different values for each side. Most of the values are accessible when the force editor is open, but are located in different places.





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RE: Movement Cost - 4/5/2020 9:25:16 PM   
William the Silent

 

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Ok I'm trying to create a scenario 0.25km/hex 1 hour/turn.

I get 4 hexes/turn (on- and off-road). That is far to low.
Infantry kan go 2 mile/hour on road (= 3.2km/hour) = 13 hexes/turn on road
And half of that off-road.

Btw. Cavalry gets 8 hex/turn.

< Message edited by William the Silent -- 4/5/2020 9:27:35 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Movement Cost - 4/5/2020 9:34:29 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: William the Silent

It's hard to find answers in the manual so let's ask here:
How do you change movement cost?



Regardless of map or time scale there is only so much you can do to reduce movement costs. If a unit has any type of transport it will have a minimum movement cost that can only be affected by the number of transport equipment assigned, movement bias and cost to enter hexes that were previously enemy controlled. It would be nice to be able to assign movement points to units and movement cost to terrain but it's not something a scenario designer has much control over. One of the problems is that transport is variable. One truck is not really one truck but any number of trucks. So if you assign piece of truck equipment to a unit it can be any number of trucks.

One of the things that is really screwy is vehicles that double as infantry fighting vehicles and transports such as a halftrack. In combat a halftrack is one vehicle. But that same halftrack is any number of halftracks for transport purposes. It doesn't make any sense and defies any attempt at logic.

Force Movement Bias
(14-455%) – This is a multiplier for Movement
Rates for all units of the Force.

Enemy hex conversion cost
(0-999) – Default is 100, where each enemy hex
converted costs the moving friendly unit the original
10% of its movement allowance (reducible by high
recon levels, though). A value of 50 would mean each
hex costs 5% of the unit’s movement allowance (same
effect of recon as above), and a value of 200 would
mean that each hex converted would cost 20% of the
unit’s movement allowance. A value of 0 would mean
that there wouldn’t be any cost of hex conversion, no
matter what the unit’s movement allowance or recon
level was. Actual cost to the unit is still rounded
down. And there is still a minimum cost of one, with
the single exception for the setting of 0.

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Post #: 4
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 12:30:01 AM   
William the Silent

 

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I actually want to increase movement.
I set the Force Movement Bias to the max 150% (50%-150% possible) and now a pure infantry unit gets 6 movement points. That is still far to low.
Infantry should be able to cover 2 mile/hour on road and 1 mile/hour off road (Or resp. 13 hex/hour and 6 hex/hour).

So Blucher cannot make it in time to help Wellington at that rate. He has to cover 50 hexes in 7 hours but can only do 42 at 6 hexes/hour.

The max movement doesn't fit 0.25km/hex

< Message edited by William the Silent -- 4/6/2020 2:14:38 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 2:29:24 AM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: William the Silent

I actually want to increase movement.
I set the Force Movement Bias to the max 150% (50%-150% possible) and now a pure infantry unit gets 6 movement points. That is still far to low.
Infantry should be able to cover 2 mile/hour on road and 1 mile/hour off road (Or resp. 13 hex/hour and 6 hex/hour).

So Blucher cannot make it in time to help Wellington at that rate. He has to cover 50 hexes in 7 hours but can only do 42 at 6 hexes/hour.

The max movement doesn't fit 0.25km/hex

The Force Movement Bias range is 14-455% (as Jack told you, but you didn't listen).

In my Shiloh 1862 scenario I have a FMB of 240.
Hex Conversion Cost is 0
Entrenchment Rate is 0
Combat Density Penalty is 5
Supply Cost of Movement is 0
Readiness Cost of Movement is 0

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Post #: 6
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 4:02:46 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

The Force Movement Bias range is 14-455% (as Jack told you, but you didn't listen).


I checked Force Movement Bias and my editor also has a range of 50-150% at .25K. What are you doing to get such a different range?

Regards





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Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

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RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 11:12:53 AM   
William the Silent

 

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I tried and you actually can give a higher number then 150% and it has an bigger effect on movement points.
I assumed the max was 150%, because the thing said so, even though lobster told me different. Confusing.
That solves my problem then.

But TOAW will have to change these numbers.

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Post #: 8
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 2:18:52 PM   
William the Silent

 

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Over the max




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Post #: 9
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 3:37:49 PM   
Lobster


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Never hurts to try and break things.

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Post #: 10
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 5:55:50 PM   
William the Silent

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 3/1/2020
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quote:

Never hurts to try and break things.

When I was young I was testdriver. Had to basically try to break the CVT in the car I drove. Continues Variable Transmission.
To make the thing better.

< Message edited by William the Silent -- 4/6/2020 5:56:33 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 6:00:25 PM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: online
So, the lesson to be learned is that neither the documentation nor program can be trusted. This is very disconcerting.

_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to William the Silent)
Post #: 12
RE: Movement Cost - 4/6/2020 10:30:13 PM   
Lobster


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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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Short on testers for one thing. Most jumped ship because they didn't like the direction things had taken and instead of sticking around to help they quit.

I'm still finding things in the manual that need editing so nothing surprises me.

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"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

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Post #: 13
RE: Movement Cost - 4/7/2020 3:51:23 AM   
jupiter999

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

So, the lesson to be learned is that neither the documentation nor program can be trusted. This is very disconcerting.

Agree... These updates should be fixed from time to time.

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Post #: 14
RE: Movement Cost - 4/7/2020 12:35:16 PM   
Lobster


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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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To be fair some things in the manual have been wrong since the day the game was released in 1998.

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RE: Movement Cost - 4/7/2020 3:00:33 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
To be fair some things in the manual have been wrong since the day the game was released in 1998.

OK, but isn't that all the more reason to fix them?

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Post #: 16
RE: Movement Cost - 4/7/2020 5:18:49 PM   
Lobster


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It hasn't happened after 20+ years.

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RE: Movement Cost - 4/8/2020 2:52:56 PM   
jupiter999

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

It hasn't happened after 20+ years.

Die hard fans keep coming back for the game, but didn't get the improvement they appreciated from time to time

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Post #: 18
RE: Movement Cost - 4/8/2020 9:54:02 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3912
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jupiter999


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

It hasn't happened after 20+ years.

Die hard fans keep coming back for the game, but didn't get the improvement they appreciated from time to time


There was a time I might say something about people accepting whatever slop was handed to them but it's all pointless.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

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Post #: 19
RE: Movement Cost - 4/9/2020 8:36:14 PM   
larryfulkerson


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+1

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