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Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft

 
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Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/30/2020 8:21:32 PM   
Dinglir


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For what it is worth.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/30/2020 8:46:53 PM   
redrum68

 

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Good analysis on the various types of air units and Axis/Soviet strategy. Are you alright with me adding a reference to this thread and incorporating some of it into the references/tips thread?

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/30/2020 10:06:21 PM   
joelmar


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@Dinglir

+1

Thank you interesting explanations, everything is very logical, easy to read and understand. Certainly worthy of being refered to!

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/30/2020 10:10:14 PM   
eskuche

 

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Great document, thanks. What is your stance on FlaK? I have German spearheads carrying 1-1.5 battalions worth of SP FlaK and they do not seem to be downing anything (damaging unsure).

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/30/2020 10:32:47 PM   
joelmar


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Flak's utility is not only for downing aircrafts, but to turn them around by damaging them or just disrupting their flight paths.

the 20mm quads (sdkfz7) with it's hallucinating rate of fire and accuracy are also very good against cavalry and infantry squads

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 12:54:30 AM   
56ajax


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Soviets, bomb in clear terrain, down South gets good results, turn to Guards in say 10+ turns, not that means anything, then ship them to a vital front.

Now can someone tell me the parameters for Group Range?

thx

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 1:12:47 AM   
eskuche

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar
Flak's utility is not only for downing aircrafts, but to turn them around by damaging them or just disrupting their flight paths.


Sounds good in theory. Can never get an actual readout of effectiveness, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
Now can someone tell me the parameters for Group Range?
thx


The answer to this problem is the time-honored "well, it depends." If you're '41 SU with ground support off, you probably just want to protect your airbases from unescorted bombing, which ideally is the only attacks you're going to be getting hit by. If you're '41 advancing Germans, you probably don't want to fatigue all of your fighters during SU mad bombing but also don't want to get attacked for free. Going all out (~30 fatigue) with half of your fighters then setting them to 1 hex range and leaving the remaining unused yet at full coverage, perhaps staggering some to lower ranges in order to to blunt the "fighter-sweep-at-max-range" tactic, will probably get you good mileage.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 2:21:54 AM   
56ajax


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More basic question, if I enter 100 it is displayed as

100 (3) so the 100 is ???? and the 3 is??? (miles, hexes, vodka bottles?)


thx


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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 2:44:01 AM   
eskuche

 

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Oh, sorry, it's miles and in parentheses (miles/30 hexes). This is confusing because the manual states that combat missions pay FOUR times the range in miles (as opposed to three, which is what is implied here because each hex space represents 10 miles). By the way, max transfer is three times normal range. This is undocumented. For Stukas, which have a range of 352 or 11 hexes normally, this turns into 35 hexes transfer range.

When I say 1 hex range I set it to 30 (1). I'm not actually sure if this covers the six surrounding hexes.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 4:59:55 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redrum68

Good analysis on the various types of air units and Axis/Soviet strategy. Are you alright with me adding a reference to this thread and incorporating some of it into the references/tips thread?


Sure. Use it as you will.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 5:10:14 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche
What is your stance on FlaK?


Axis:
Flak is essential in combatting the enemy IL-2's and U-2VS's from very early on. The weakness with my Axis Air strategy is that my fighters are tied to the bombers and will do very little to disrupt the Soviet Air attacks during their own turn. Thus I need to rely on Flak. Thankfully, you should be able to get between one and two Flak regiments to each Corps level HQ, resulting in quite a few dead IL-2's (in 11.X - don't know about 12.X yet).

Soviet:
I have misplayed these grossly for a long time now, leaving them to die as their cities get overrun by the German spearheads. You can withdraw them for 1AP if Germans are within 5 hexes. A Soviet AA Regiment holds 100 guns, which are also usable in an Anti Tank role. I haven't played a Soviet player bombing deep for a while now, but I plan to stick a few AA regiments on an Airborne HQ or something similar and then try to use it as a "moveable Flak base" to protect industry. Do not know how that will work.


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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 5:49:19 AM   
eskuche

 

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What I've been doing is using Luftflottes or Fliegerkorps HQ as my mobile FlaK bases (e.g., on rear stacked level bomber bases). The former deposit FlaK back to army groups the following turn, but you miss out on some of the combat ratings keeping it static, and it costs 1000 vehicles a turn to move (unless you "accidentally" get it bumped to remove dumps). The latter won't be able to return SU's immediately, removing some of the flexibility, but you lose fewer vehicles.

You may be able to achieve the same with STAVKA-controlled extra HQs, though Soviets generally have much fewer available in my short stint as them.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 5:49:51 AM   
eskuche

 

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Also it's questionable whether SU battalions and companies are worth rescuing even at 1 AP. Regiments for sure.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 10:52:18 AM   
56ajax


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You cant buy manpower or equipment in the game, which is what the Soviets are short of early on, so I think they should be saved.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 3:23:24 PM   
joelmar


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quote:


@eskuche
Sounds good in theory. Can never get an actual readout of effectiveness, though.


Yes you can, just watch air battles at message level 7. Very interesting things going on if you have the patience of course. Same is true for ground battles.


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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 5:25:41 PM   
redrum68

 

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@joelmar - Is there any way to dump the message level 7 output to a file so I don't have to sit and watch but can just browse through it afterwards?

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 6:22:51 PM   
joelmar


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@redrum68

It would be awesome, but not to my knowledge. But lately I've had more and more patience in doing it. The main problem is some attacks shown take a long time, including the numerous rifle vs rifle actions, which mystifies me because when the message levels are at 1, the whole battles are very fast. Maybe it simply slows down the process and all operations take an individual time ratio corresponding to their load on the processor?

But yes, I would love that.

< Message edited by joelmar -- 3/31/2020 6:23:22 PM >


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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 7:55:17 PM   
eskuche

 

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Technically you could automate a series of screenshots and convert image to text but I’m not sure that’s worth the effort.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 7:57:36 PM   
joelmar


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a lot of time investment!

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 3/31/2020 9:20:38 PM   
joelmar


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BTW, I just found out that if you watch at level 6, you see only the destroyed, damaged and disrupted results instead of everything and all results are displayed fast.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 4/1/2020 5:27:29 AM   
Dinglir


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In game settings you set the amount of time each message in the battale reports are displayed. I currently run with 1 second.

Using an understanding of the order of battle (air combat first, then decreasing ranges) lets you set the message level as youg along (When looking at reports, I usually use levels 1, 4 (dead and damaged stuff) as well as level 6 for air combat (who's fighting who). Level 7 is good for getting a basic understanding, but a battle can easily take more than 30 minutes if a few divisions are involved.

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RE: Dinglir's thoughts on how to apply aircraft - 4/1/2020 3:29:17 PM   
joelmar


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yes, I run with 1 sec too. But what I mean is that at level 7 many actions are displayed for like 3-4 seconds or more, even if the setting is 1 sec. Good example of this are dogfights. It's almost like if the devs had wanted to create suspense... lol!

level 6 is what was destroyed, damaged or disrupted and by what. And that's what I really want to know most of time. And it's not that long to go through for an average battle. Of course, even level 6 would be a fastidious exercise in the case of a multi-corps assaults with a long list of back up SU's and full air support!

I think you're right, level 7 is mostly so you can understand better the process of a battle, but not meant to be a day to day tool.

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