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A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:35:54 AM   
ncc1701e


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The German plan for invasion of France and Low countries was named Fall Gelb or Case Yellow. It starts May 10th, 1940.

While invading the Low countries to attract the French and UK units, the main effort of the German offensive was located in the Ardennes forest. After the Sedan breakthrough, the German's armor corps have reached the sea near Abbeville on May 20th, 1940.

Netherlands surrenders May 15th, 1940. Belgium surrenders May 28th, 1940.

Battle of Dunkirk starts on May 26th, 1940 and ends on June 4th, 1940. Operation Dynamo allows the BEF to get back to England. But, the French resistance in the pocket of Lille has also saved time for the British to evacuate.

UK will continue the war.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 3/29/2020 10:38:59 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
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RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:30 AM   
ncc1701e


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Fall Rot or Case Red was the second phase of the German offensive. It starts June 5th, 1940 and ultimately reach Paris and many other cities.
Ultimately, France ask for an armistice with Germany. The armistice came into effect on June 22th, 1940.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 3/29/2020 10:38:36 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 2
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:35 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3101
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So, is it possible to recreate these two operations in WarPlan? And above all, with a historic pace.

In so many wargames, I am disappointed by the "Schlieffen like" invasion of France 1940.

The good news is yes, at last, this is possible in WarPlan. Easy against AI, more difficult against a human opponent who already knows your plan.

But, you must plan in advance for the success of the operation and this planification begins on Sept 1st, 1939. Indeed, the German OOB contains only two Armor corps.

You have to build two more Armor corps and two Mechanized corps in Europe 1939 scenario to match the OOB of Europe 1940 scenario. Of course, you need to keep your two existing Armor corps alive after Poland.

And, they have to be ready before May 10th, 1940 of course.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 3/29/2020 10:40:48 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
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RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:40 AM   
ncc1701e


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There are two methods to speed up a bit the production. I will not detail exactly what I am doing because you have to find out by yourselves.
First school is to disband some units to gain production and manpower. Gain enough to start a production.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 3/29/2020 10:41:43 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
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RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:44 AM   
ncc1701e


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Second school, which I prefer so far, is to stop any kind of reinforcement and/or upgrade.
You will have more time later to replace your losses from the Polish campaign.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 3/29/2020 10:42:29 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 5
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:49 AM   
ncc1701e


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The idea is to arrive to this unit building list.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 3/29/2020 10:44:14 AM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 6
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:53 AM   
ncc1701e


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May 10th, 1940:

Everything is ready for Fall Gelb. German OOB contains:
1. Two Mechanized corps
2. Four Armor corps

So, let's start.




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/3/2020 9:43:33 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
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RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:36:58 AM   
ncc1701e


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May 10th, 1940:

In the first turn, you must concentrate on the Dutch and on Belgium. You must take them out of war.

You have two objectives:
1. Capture Amsterdam
2. Capture Brussels

And, put your Armor and your Mechanized corps in a good position for next turn... for the breakthrough...




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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/3/2020 9:43:43 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
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RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:37:02 AM   
ncc1701e


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May 24th, 1940:

At the beginning of the second turn, you have only the French and the BEF remaining in front of you.
This is time to avoid Lille and to go to the sea through Saint Quentin.

Avoid any frontal battle with your Armor and/or your Mechanized corps.
Exploit, exploit, exploit.





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< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/3/2020 9:43:53 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 9
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:37:07 AM   
ncc1701e


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May 24th, 1940:

At the end of the second turn, you must have reached the sea. BEF and the French corps in Lille are now out of supply.

I have even managed to capture Calais harbor. Impossible for the BEF to go back in England.

Let's now compared to the historic pace:
1. Netherlands surrenders May 15th, 1940. Objective achieved.
2. Belgium surrenders May 28th, 1940. Objective achieved.
3. German's armor have reached the sea on May 20th, 1940. Objective achieved.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/3/2020 9:44:02 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 10
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:37:12 AM   
ncc1701e


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June 7th, 1940:

In the third turn, you have now two more objectives:
1. Finish BEF and reduce the Lille pocket
2. Capture Paris

This is the situation at the end of the third turn.

Historically, on June 14th, the German armies reach Paris declared open city. Objective achieved.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/3/2020 9:44:11 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 11
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 10:37:17 AM   
ncc1701e


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June 21th, 1940:

At the beginning of the fourth turn, we are receiving a message to negotiate surrender.
Historically, the armistice came into effect on June 22th, 1940.

So, history can repeat itself against AI in WarPlan. Objective achieved.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 4/3/2020 9:44:22 PM >


_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 12
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 3/29/2020 4:09:46 PM   
Krupinski


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Thank you very much for this excellent aar and guide to Fall Gelb/Rot!

My fault was that i forgot to produce 4 more units for the west.

Cheers
Krupinski

< Message edited by Krupinski -- 3/29/2020 4:10:54 PM >

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RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/18/2020 1:17:13 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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Yes playing the '40 scenario allows for historical results also, but with a '39 start it may be more difficult , or easier, because Allies may have moved units.
Your build queue is ok, but then you are pretty low on Air forces in 40, I think the '40 setup has one more German Air than '39 (I may be wrong ).

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Post #: 14
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/18/2020 2:22:17 PM   
ncc1701e


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Last time I have checked, air setups are the same between Europe 1939 and Europe 1940 scenario.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 15
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/18/2020 4:47:39 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Last time I have checked, air setups are the same between Europe 1939 and Europe 1940 scenario.

You'right, my bad

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 16
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/18/2020 7:54:40 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3101
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Last time I have checked, air setups are the same between Europe 1939 and Europe 1940 scenario.

You'right, my bad


No worries, hope you are enjoying the game.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 17
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/20/2020 9:04:16 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1199
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

So, is it possible to recreate these two operations in WarPlan? And above all, with a historic pace.

In so many wargames, I am disappointed by the "Schlieffen like" invasion of France 1940.

The good news is yes, at last, this is possible in WarPlan. Easy against AI, more difficult against a human opponent who already knows your plan.

But, you must plan in advance for the success of the operation and this planification begins on Sept 1st, 1939. Indeed, the German OOB contains only two Armor corps.

You have to build two more Armor corps and two Mechanized corps in Europe 1939 scenario to match the OOB of Europe 1940 scenario. Of course, you need to keep your two existing Armor corps alive after Poland.

And, they have to be ready before May 10th, 1940 of course.



To followup on this, I wonder if it's possible as well to get the historical Barbarossa OB starting in May'40? You have to build 3 Pz Korps, 2-3 air, 2 Mountain, a sh*tload of truck supply, a couple subs and the Tirpitz ? Given that Axis losses will be much higher in 40-41 than 39, it seems very difficult. Still didn't try/test yet, so that's only speculative.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 18
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/20/2020 9:33:44 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 3101
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

To followup on this, I wonder if it's possible as well to get the historical Barbarossa OB starting in May'40? You have to build 3 Pz Korps, 2-3 air, 2 Mountain, a sh*tload of truck supply, a couple subs and the Tirpitz ? Given that Axis losses will be much higher in 40-41 than 39, it seems very difficult. Still didn't try/test yet, so that's only speculative.


Yes, you are right. I did not make the test. Would be interesting to know but normally stopping any reinforcements/upgrades for few turns would help.

By the way, I am running a Barbarossa balance test right now with Hairog, see here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4785412

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 19
RE: A historic fall of France 1940 - 4/21/2020 4:32:38 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1199
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

To followup on this, I wonder if it's possible as well to get the historical Barbarossa OB starting in May'40? You have to build 3 Pz Korps, 2-3 air, 2 Mountain, a sh*tload of truck supply, a couple subs and the Tirpitz ? Given that Axis losses will be much higher in 40-41 than 39, it seems very difficult. Still didn't try/test yet, so that's only speculative.


Yes, you are right. I did not make the test. Would be interesting to know but normally stopping any reinforcements/upgrades for few turns would help.

By the way, I am running a Barbarossa balance test right now with Hairog, see here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4785412


Yes, this needs testing ... if not already done whene designing !
Looking at the nearly empty Germany build queue in May'40 I really wonder if it's possible ...

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 20
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