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SNOOPY help/suggestions - 3/23/2020 4:12:13 PM   
cbrown119

 

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I cannot avoid being detected. I assume there is sonar buoys in the area, so I stay above the layer 98'.

Then I get detected by surface units which seem far away. When I go under the layer, I get detected by some other means.

I really don't know how to complete this scenario, plus I only find 3 SAM's.

Is the only way to find these is going to periscope depth until picking up the transmissions?

I've tried about a dozen times...and death seems to just happen so fast....

thanks for any pointers

Post #: 1
RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 3/23/2020 8:12:34 PM   
Rory Noonan

 

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Hey cbrown119,

I play-tested this scenario this morning to make sure nothing had changed drastically since I last played.

The strategy I used was to do short dashes at cruise as deep as possible (about an hour each) and then slow down to creep for a few minutes and change depth a few times to check my surroundings. Once satisfied there's no immediate threats I would go to periscope depth for a few minutes to see if I picked up any of the radar ESM hits we're looking for. In general you will need to get within 20nm of the coast for this, sometimes much closer.

In the briefing there is a map that shows the rough positions of the emitters you're trying to detect.

The enemy surface vessels have pretty limited sonar capability, the best of them might be able to detect you at 10 or so nm if everything lines up just right. The others would have trouble finding you if you drove right beneath them so long as you're on the opposite side of the layer. That said, you have plenty of time and a nice fast SSN to work with, so use your speed and the time available to stay a minimum of 12-15nm away from any unfriendly surface contacts.

The Soviets will also only fire on you if you're caught within their territorial waters, so another idea might be to stay out of the 12nm limit for as long as possible, only darting inside to get intel if need be.

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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 3/23/2020 8:17:57 PM   
cbrown119

 

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Thanks for the pointers, Apache85....Some good tips and I'll keep plugging away.

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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 3/24/2020 4:39:54 PM   
HaughtKarl

 

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What I like to do for subs is place a range ring using the draw circle tool in the game. Next you want to set the reference points fixed to the sub so that the range ring travels with it. For example, here's a 15nm ring around your sub in Snoopy. Try to keep most of the sonar capable contacts near the outer limits of your ring. It's been awhile since I last played but the Krivak's are the ships you want to avoid the most.


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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 3/25/2020 7:17:45 PM   
cbrown119

 

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Finally got through this one. Your suggestions worked like a charm! I maintained distance, the best that I could, and weaved in and out of sticky situations. Thanks for the assist!
On towards the lone wolf....

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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 12/6/2020 12:19:07 PM   
fitzpatv

 

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I've had a couple of attempts at this scenario without any success. The first time, I steered to the E end of the patrol zone on the basis that I could probably get there safely by keeping to international waters, then only have to do the sweep in one direction, ending close to the safe zone off Norway. Did this at Cruise, just under the layer and got there without incident. Taking a look above the layer, I detected several obvious Soviet patrol craft in a line to the S. The spacing made it clear that there was no safe channel and everything was within 15nm sonar range of at least one Soviet ship. Granted that not all of them have 15nm sonar, but it isn't easy to tell them apart and you can't take that chance.

The only approach seemed to be to sneak through at Creep, below the layer. Doing this, I weaved past two or three SO1, Poti and Grisha patrol craft but, at some point, I must have been spotted and ID'd as an SSN, losing 100VP (only found out later by checking the scoreboard). Soon, sonobuoys starting appearing, but fortunately some distance away. Try as I might, I couldn't get clear of nearby patrol craft and never dared going to periscope depth to check for emissions. I gradually edged closer to the coast over 5-6 hours, hoping for some breathing space in which to go shallow. No sooner had I crossed the 12 mile territorial limit than a Grisha blew me out of the water with multiple Smerch rocket salvoes. My depth meant that I only detected it when it was too close to evade. There didn't seem to be any penalty to the second and subsequent salvoes from the noise and interference caused by the earlier ones, but I think they hit first-time, anyway (hard not to with 12 shots per salvo).

After this, I read this post and tried-out the suggested strategy of moving as deep as possible in one-hour bursts at Cruise, then going shallower briefly to take a look around. It just didn't work. Again, the patrol net is too tight for a sub to slip through and moving at that speed and depth means that you sometimes only detect enemy contacts when they're right on top of you. First, a surface ship came within 2.46nm of me before I saw it. I steered away and managed to avoid detection, heading NE, then E to try to find a way round. Doing so, I bumped into a November-class SSN at 2.22nm and was identified. The only sane thing to do was to retreat and accept a -100VP Disaster.

Having to record multiple sites' emissions makes this scenario even harder - getting one is tough enough.

Incidentally, I couldn't find the 'draw circle tool' referred-to above. Was it removed in the switch from CMANO to CMO?.

Consistently in this game, submarines are extremely vulnerable platforms and easy to kill. They are only effective when their weapons outrange the enemy's (and by enough that you can draw the quicker ships well into the 'kill zone' so that they can't outrun your torpedoes). They are probably best in their modern role as cruise- or ballistic missile launchers. Does the game make subs too easy to detect and ASW weapons too accurate?. One thought I had today is that, whereas late 60s sonar might not be the best, this is maybe being offset by the frequency with which it checks for contacts. If checks are made per second, even very low chances are going to come-up within a minute or so.

Another observation is that there is probably an optimum size for a CMO scenario. Here, you have one sub, all your eggs are in one basket and one mistake or misfortune is fatal most of the time. You also have limited tactical choice (especially in this scenario where you can't even sanely fire back). The better scenarios I've played have a good number of units and a mix of ships, planes, subs and missiles (Duellists and Canary's Cage are examples that readily spring to mind). I've not yet played any really big scenarios like the Northern Fury series and will have to reserve judgement on these until I do, but any player is going to be taxed by situations where they have to deal with multiple combats simultaneously and will probably have to delegate a lot to the AI via the use of Missions, thinking more strategically instead of jumping into dogfights and accepting a higher rate of losses.

Any thoughts?.

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Post #: 6
RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 12/7/2020 12:46:04 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

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quote:


Another observation is that there is probably an optimum size for a CMO scenario. Here, you have one sub, all your eggs are in one basket and one mistake or misfortune is fatal most of the time. You also have limited tactical choice (especially in this scenario where you can't even sanely fire back). The better scenarios I've played have a good number of units and a mix of ships, planes, subs and missiles (Duellists and Canary's Cage are examples that readily spring to mind). I've not yet played any really big scenarios like the Northern Fury series and will have to reserve judgement on these until I do, but any player is going to be taxed by situations where they have to deal with multiple combats simultaneously and will probably have to delegate a lot to the AI via the use of Missions, thinking more strategically instead of jumping into dogfights and accepting a higher rate of losses.


This is subjective. I've heard similar opinions that go the opposite way ('I prefer smaller scenarios where I can really focus on one or two units').

quote:

Consistently in this game, submarines are extremely vulnerable platforms and easy to kill. They are only effective when their weapons outrange the enemy's (and by enough that you can draw the quicker ships well into the 'kill zone' so that they can't outrun your torpedoes). They are probably best in their modern role as cruise- or ballistic missile launchers. Does the game make subs too easy to detect and ASW weapons too accurate?. One thought I had today is that, whereas late 60s sonar might not be the best, this is maybe being offset by the frequency with which it checks for contacts. If checks are made per second, even very low chances are going to come-up within a minute or so.


If you are running your submarine like the titular character in Jaws, yes, chances of survival are small.

Popular culture depicts submarines as they were in WW2; marauding across the Atlantic, terrorising relatively helpless surface vessels. Improvements in ASW gear, especially the ubiquity of ASW helicopters onboard even small warships, mean that the 'send a single SSN after that convoy and wipe it out' concept of operations is not viable. Instead, intel gathering and selective elimination of targets of opportunity or high-value targets is a more effective strategy.

Also, The Silent Service scenarios are intentionally more challenging than other DLCs--I did this because I personally find it much more satisfying to eventually beat a difficult scenario after 4-5 tries than I to cruise through a simple one. Mixing it up a bit or adding some options for difficulty is something I'll keep in mind next time!

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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 12/14/2020 10:48:36 AM   
fitzpatv

 

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Broadly agree with what you say. I don't mind needing to play a scenario a few times to work-out a winning strategy (examples are Shamala and, if the bugs could be resolved, Operation Lightning Strike). I'm less keen on having to play several times until I get lucky on the fifth attempt, which I don't find satisfying at all, as it's essentially meaningless.

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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 12/14/2020 12:12:21 PM   
Dimitris

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fitzpatv
I'm less keen on having to play several times until I get lucky on the fifth attempt, which I don't find satisfying at all, as it's essentially meaningless.


So, next time a player complains that a certain scenario lacks replayability "because once I play it once, afterwards I know where all the important actors are and how they are going to behave", and asks (for example) for randomization of starting positions, mission behaviors etc., can we count on you to stand up and say "I am against this, it will make my chances of winning too dependent on luck of the draw" ?

Food for thought

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/14/2020 12:18:15 PM >


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RE: SNOOPY help/suggestions - 12/15/2020 1:12:38 PM   
fitzpatv

 

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It's a matter of balance. I have no problem at all with random starting positions, variable line-ups, etc in the interests of replayability - it's commendable. On the other hand, the player has to have a chance to win without relying on luck, so the opposition (while variable) shouldn't exceed a certain strength and the starting positions should be within a range that gives the player a fighting chance of achieving their objectives in the time limit. The problem with Snoopy is that there are too many Soviet ASW assets and there is very little chance of carrying-out the mission without being detected and/or sunk - you need to be very lucky.

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