Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

When an upgrade is not an upgrade

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> When an upgrade is not an upgrade Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 1:42:11 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7072
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
I wanted to check with veteran IJN players on what models you choose NOT to upgrade. Here is what I have, any thoughts?

D3A1 to D3A2 Val: Just not worth giving up 1 hex of range, IMO. Agree?

Nicks: KA1b and KA1c versions feature useless cannons; just build 5/42 version and Night Fighter (which still has a crap cannon, but there are no other IJA options)

Tojo: IIb or not IIb? Definitely not IIb with that crap cannon. IIc is good though.

Dinah: Don't build the Fighter version due to cannon accuracy. The Night Fighter is OK, though Randy is the only good IJA Night Fighter

Topsy: Kind of minor, but the I version uses stocks of otherwise useless engines, while the II version draws on Ha-31s....otherwise they look identical.

That's about all I could find.....is that it? Any other upgrades to miss?

Also:

G3M3 includes a RADAR. Does that Radar actually do anything? This looks like a good search plane anyway with the range; doesn't really offer anything else over the Betty



< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 3/23/2020 1:43:38 PM >


_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 3:08:52 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 11091
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
I understand that the Radar gives a 5% increase in search. Useful at night to try and find the target.

Idas, keep building them for trainers and action in China. There are a lot of engines for them and waiting until later so they carry a bigger bomb? What chance will you have to use them?

Sonia, use them but I am not going to build more. Why wait for the version with the bigger bomb.

A6M3 and A6M3a, but going through the Rufe => A6M5 is quick enough. Especially with 6 R & D factories and the engine bonus.
A6M7 is not on the regular A6M research path, go to the A6M8.

Skip the first two Judys to get to the third one which uses a common engine.

Skip the Ki-61 Tonys and go to the Ki-100 which uses a common engine. You can get this in later 1943 and it has cannons, unlike the Tojo IIa, IIc. Good for low CAP since it is maneuverable. SR is 1 which is nice.

Go to the Peggy T, it will carry the same bomb load but it can carry torpedoes. An ARMY torpedo bomber . . . Train the pilots in Low Nav before you get this plane and it will bomb at low altitude with no penalty if the unit is set to torpedo attack but no torpedoes are available.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 2
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 4:25:04 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3060
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I wanted to check with veteran IJN players on what models you choose NOT to upgrade. Here is what I have, any thoughts?

D3A1 to D3A2 Val: Just not worth giving up 1 hex of range, IMO. Agree?

Nicks: KA1b and KA1c versions feature useless cannons; just build 5/42 version and Night Fighter (which still has a crap cannon, but there are no other IJA options)

Tojo: IIb or not IIb? Definitely not IIb with that crap cannon. IIc is good though.

Dinah: Don't build the Fighter version due to cannon accuracy. The Night Fighter is OK, though Randy is the only good IJA Night Fighter

Topsy: Kind of minor, but the I version uses stocks of otherwise useless engines, while the II version draws on Ha-31s....otherwise they look identical.

That's about all I could find.....is that it? Any other upgrades to miss?

Also:

G3M3 includes a RADAR. Does that Radar actually do anything? This looks like a good search plane anyway with the range; doesn't really offer anything else over the Betty




Val - agreed

Nick - agreed, first model is the best

Tojo - I don't like them anyways and prefer to not use them

Dinah - Lowpe likes the Dinah fighters, I'm not sold. The night fighter is essential as the Randy arrives late.

Topsy - meh

G3M3 - wonder plane. Massive range, carries a torpedo, gets radar. Even if it is slower than two weeks of quarantine, it has massive utility as search/asw/long range raider.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 3
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 4:52:08 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9723
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
G3M3 - one of my favorite planes ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 4
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 6:31:59 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7072
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Tojo - I don't like them anyways and prefer to not use them



That's interesting....what do you use instead of the Tojo? It's not an amazing plane, but it's that or the Oscar for a long while until you get the Frank. The SR of 1 is certainly nice.

Just curious what you build instead of Tojo. Tony?


_____________________________


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 5
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 6:53:22 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 11091
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Tojo - I don't like them anyways and prefer to not use them



That's interesting....what do you use instead of the Tojo? It's not an amazing plane, but it's that or the Oscar for a long while until you get the Frank. The SR of 1 is certainly nice.

Just curious what you build instead of Tojo. Tony?



I plan on using the Tojo until the Tony Ki-100 comes in.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 6
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 7:08:16 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 485
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline
I don't like Tojos either.

I generally go fully for the Oscar until the end of the world. I love oscars: they have outrageously high losses but they have nice 20mm guns, a fairly decent speed (-16mph compared to tojos) and a wonderful range.
Also, they can occasionally serve as fighter-bombers, something not to neglect.


Anyway:

-Val : I don't upgrade them
-A6M : the A6M8 is not really an upgrade compared to A6M5c and in line of principle the A6M5c is a better plane under many points of view
-Tojo : go straight to the -IIc and you're happy. Skip the rest.
-Oscar : go straight to the -IV and skip the rest. They are moderately good planes, but it's better to have the final model ASAP since the other ones aren't such an improvement over the crappy -Ic.
-Nick : first model is the best
-G3M3 : wonderful plane and it's definitely the model you should have until very late in the war. Super slow and easy target even if escorted, but it does wonders when you strike far behind enemy lines. Extremely good recon until the Dinah-III kicks into production.
-Mavis-II : I don't even remember the name of the second one. Don't produce it. The increase in the range is useless since you have the Emily, which is far better.
-Transports : I only produce Thalia for the entire duration of the war. Never got passioned by anything else: it uses the common Ha-35 (in surplus at later stages of the war), it has a wonderful range and it's decent in terms of cargo capacity.
-Kate : here is tricky. I simply put into production both the Kate-I and the Kate-II, since the first one uses engines which are in the warehouses and should be depleted. Kate-II it's obviously better (SR=1 versus SR=2 of the Kate-I) but, industrially speaking, it makes sense to use both the models. IIRC, at 7th Dec there is no factory producing the Kate-I.
- Tony : if you go for it (and I never do), just go for the last model and skip the guys in between

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 7
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 8:34:25 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14644
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Tojo makes a good sweeper for a while. Service rating an asset. It can shoot down search and recon planes just fine. It can sweep against the Brits til late. If you have the numerical advantage situations may arise where you sweep against the best of them, even P-47s.

The G3M3 once it has radar can search at night and you'll lose fewer of them and be able to search in some otherwise no-go areas. I don't yet know how well it does against subs at night. Also don't know how it does with naval attack at night, but it's worth a try.

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 2/21 it is 5/45.

(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 8
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 8:37:57 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14644
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Oscar IIa and b are naval attack aircraft. Range and bomb load excellent. Kamikazes too if you go that way.

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 2/21 it is 5/45.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 9
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/23/2020 9:11:28 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3060
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Tojo - I don't like them anyways and prefer to not use them



That's interesting....what do you use instead of the Tojo? It's not an amazing plane, but it's that or the Oscar for a long while until you get the Frank. The SR of 1 is certainly nice.

Just curious what you build instead of Tojo. Tony?



Use the Nick, and boost it out with the Jack/George. As they come online. If you're careful you can make that work until you can bring the Tony 100 and the Frank online.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 10
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/24/2020 4:50:54 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I understand that the Radar gives a 5% increase in search. Useful at night to try and find the target.

Idas, keep building them for trainers and action in China. There are a lot of engines for them and waiting until later so they carry a bigger bomb? What chance will you have to use them?

Sonia, use them but I am not going to build more. Why wait for the version with the bigger bomb.

A6M3 and A6M3a, but going through the Rufe => A6M5 is quick enough. Especially with 6 R & D factories and the engine bonus.
A6M7 is not on the regular A6M research path, go to the A6M8.

Skip the first two Judys to get to the third one which uses a common engine.

Skip the Ki-61 Tonys and go to the Ki-100 which uses a common engine. You can get this in later 1943 and it has cannons, unlike the Tojo IIa, IIc. Good for low CAP since it is maneuverable. SR is 1 which is nice.

Go to the Peggy T, it will carry the same bomb load but it can carry torpedoes. An ARMY torpedo bomber . . . Train the pilots in Low Nav before you get this plane and it will bomb at low altitude with no penalty if the unit is set to torpedo attack but no torpedoes are available.


Unreal! I know playing Japan is the real satisfaction but all that knowledge needed to play effective! I think my head would explode!

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 11
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/24/2020 9:29:36 AM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 485
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline
I instead don't go for the Judy-III. I prefer to have a small production of Judy-I and then I go directly for the Judy-IV, which is by far the best.
Judy-Is are then mainly used on land based groups due to their good range.

Judy-Is are good enough to do the job for a while and I don't delay the arrival of the guys with the big bomb. I am really in love with the 800Kg bomb carried by Judy-IVs.

Note that I generlly invest quite a lot in R&D for dive bombers (5-6 factories) in order to have a quick arrival of the Judy-IV and a massive initial production.
Also, Ha-33 is an engine I push very quickly to high numbers due to the joint R&D needs of both the Judy-IV and the A6M8.


What's essential is to get Vals out of your carriers ASAP, since they're awful planes. The 250Kg bomb is their main problem, since it's of doubtful use at best. The short range is the second most relevant problem: with 6 hexes in normal range, they are terrible.
Speed, durability and other statistics complete the picture of a s@tty plane, differently from Kates which are very good (both the Kate-I and the Kate-II) even when Jills are available.
I believe that, all considered, if you go for a decent amount of R&D on dive bombers and you aim at Judy-IV, Judy-IIs and Judy-IIIs are not necessary and it's arguably better to have the Judy-I (since you have to R&D it anyway) as a stop-gap measure and then the Judy-IV directly.

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to Scott_USN)
Post #: 12
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/24/2020 12:40:24 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 853
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

In 2016 there was a good thread that I followed and in it was a post by Lokasenna.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4138567

I’ve had very good results following his excellent advice.

All except for the Oscar.
I’m sort of a specialist in getting decent performance out of lousy Japanese aircraft.
It is all in pilots, leadership, settings, tactical situation and what you put them up against.

It would be interesting to see if Lokasenna still agrees with his advice of four years ago.

You need to read the whole thread as it is far reaching from many players.

P.S.
It turns out that Lokasenna is one of the premier Japanese players of this game.
I’ve read almost everything he has posted and saved much of it.

He is a sort of a must read for Japanese players.


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 13
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/24/2020 12:54:25 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 11091
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

I instead don't go for the Judy-III. I prefer to have a small production of Judy-I and then I go directly for the Judy-IV, which is by far the best.
Judy-Is are then mainly used on land based groups due to their good range.

Judy-Is are good enough to do the job for a while and I don't delay the arrival of the guys with the big bomb. I am really in love with the 800Kg bomb carried by Judy-IVs.

Note that I generlly invest quite a lot in R&D for dive bombers (5-6 factories) in order to have a quick arrival of the Judy-IV and a massive initial production.
Also, Ha-33 is an engine I push very quickly to high numbers due to the joint R&D needs of both the Judy-IV and the A6M8.


What's essential is to get Vals out of your carriers ASAP, since they're awful planes. The 250Kg bomb is their main problem, since it's of doubtful use at best. The short range is the second most relevant problem: with 6 hexes in normal range, they are terrible.
Speed, durability and other statistics complete the picture of a s@tty plane, differently from Kates which are very good (both the Kate-I and the Kate-II) even when Jills are available.
I believe that, all considered, if you go for a decent amount of R&D on dive bombers and you aim at Judy-IV, Judy-IIs and Judy-IIIs are not necessary and it's arguably better to have the Judy-I (since you have to R&D it anyway) as a stop-gap measure and then the Judy-IV directly.


You can bypass the Judy model and go straight to the Judy that you prefer. It sort of sounds like picking the wife that you finally settle on, first. All that you have to do is to finish the research factory, then immediately go to the next model, and so on until you get to the one that you want. By not building the first two Judys, then I don''t have to research the engine, nor build the engine. That frees up that factory to research something else.

Plus, the Judy IV was more of a suicide dive bomber. The 500 kg bomb dropped on a ship does a decent job.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 3/24/2020 1:09:42 PM >


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 14
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/24/2020 1:31:12 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 485
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

I instead don't go for the Judy-III. I prefer to have a small production of Judy-I and then I go directly for the Judy-IV, which is by far the best.
Judy-Is are then mainly used on land based groups due to their good range.

Judy-Is are good enough to do the job for a while and I don't delay the arrival of the guys with the big bomb. I am really in love with the 800Kg bomb carried by Judy-IVs.

Note that I generlly invest quite a lot in R&D for dive bombers (5-6 factories) in order to have a quick arrival of the Judy-IV and a massive initial production.
Also, Ha-33 is an engine I push very quickly to high numbers due to the joint R&D needs of both the Judy-IV and the A6M8.


What's essential is to get Vals out of your carriers ASAP, since they're awful planes. The 250Kg bomb is their main problem, since it's of doubtful use at best. The short range is the second most relevant problem: with 6 hexes in normal range, they are terrible.
Speed, durability and other statistics complete the picture of a s@tty plane, differently from Kates which are very good (both the Kate-I and the Kate-II) even when Jills are available.
I believe that, all considered, if you go for a decent amount of R&D on dive bombers and you aim at Judy-IV, Judy-IIs and Judy-IIIs are not necessary and it's arguably better to have the Judy-I (since you have to R&D it anyway) as a stop-gap measure and then the Judy-IV directly.


You can bypass the Judy model and go straight to the Judy that you prefer. It sort of sounds like picking the wife that you finally settle on, first. All that you have to do is to finish the research factory, then immediately go to the next model, and so on until you get to the one that you want. By not building the first two Judys, then I don''t have to research the engine, nor build the engine. That frees up that factory to research something else.

Plus, the Judy IV was more of a suicide dive bomber. The 500 kg bomb dropped on a ship does a decent job.



Yes but by the time you have the factories repaired for the Judy-I, you have very little wait before it comes online. On the other side, if you go straight for the Judy-III, you have to wait until it kicks online and it might take a while.
Therefore, I prefer to have a first little bunch of Judy-Is, which basically don't require any wait after factories are repaired, and then I go straight for the JUdy-IV.

It looks like a small difference, but the additional months you would have to spend on Judy-III research can be quite devastating. Having the Judy-IV early in '43 means being able do deal a very big punch in a carrier battle still somehow balanced.




Regarding Lokasenna's advice. I disagree with some of them, especially the Tony. I don't like Tony models at all and I generally don't produce them.
Also, I either produce Jack or George, depending on the game I am doing. I find too complex to have two different fighter lines (plus the embarked ones) for IJNAF. Generally, George is the better one for me.
I don't like the idea of producing Sallies, but that's mainly because I usually produce a massive amount of Helen-IIs. They have 1 more hex in "normal" and it suits perfectly to a bombing campaing of Chungkin from Hankow, which I usually upgrade to AF lvl 9 immediately in the game.
Also, MAD comes online very, very late and I don't bother with it at all. When finally it becomes available, I do see what to do depending on the general situation.
Last, but not least, I disagree with the hate toward Oscars. I really love them. They are definitely bad planes when compared to other models such as Tony or Tojo, but they do their dirty job in multi-layered low-level CAPs. Their 2x20mm cannons are quite a good asset, also. Nothing special, but they're pretty accurate and with a respectable punch.

My main problem, a part from altitude and speed of allied aircraft, is to actually shot them down: 20mm cannons do the trick quite well.

The flexibility of the Oscar is its main asset. It can be redeployed fairly easily around the map and it can be a decent CAP when placed in the lowest layer of it.



Of course, each of the suggestions given by players is something that goes a lot into personal preferences and the general strategic and industrial posture. Something that is quite straightforward and legit from my perspective, can be disastrous in someone else's game.


_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 15
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/24/2020 2:59:36 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 11091
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
It all depends upon the enemy and what they do and don't do.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 16
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/25/2020 11:10:02 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2156
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline
There’s not a lot of love for the Nick C in here!
In scenario 1, It has the same 20mm centre mount cannon as the Nick A but substitutes in a 37mm cannon with accuracy 6 in place of 2x12.7mm MGs.
That 37mm cannon might not hit very often, but anything it does hit should stay hit.
I figure allied 4E bombers are a big target, and I have no idea what formula the 6 accuracy plugs into, but 12.7mm MGs don’t shoot down many bombers.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/25/2020 12:25:13 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 485
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

There’s not a lot of love for the Nick C in here!
In scenario 1, It has the same 20mm centre mount cannon as the Nick A but substitutes in a 37mm cannon with accuracy 6 in place of 2x12.7mm MGs.
That 37mm cannon might not hit very often, but anything it does hit should stay hit.
I figure allied 4E bombers are a big target, and I have no idea what formula the 6 accuracy plugs into, but 12.7mm MGs don’t shoot down many bombers.



I know it's a tempting plane but the problem is that the gun doesn't hit much.

I generally approach anti-bomber missions in this way: many crappy planes just to disrupt enemy's formation, some good nti-bomber fighters such as Nick-I to damage enemy's planes and a lot of AA to shot them down/damage further.

Generally, rather than shooting them down, I want to disrupt enemy's bombing run as much as possible so that I limit the damages on the land.

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 18
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/26/2020 5:45:06 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
Most late war IJN DD upgrades give a bit extra AA and/or Radar at the expense of reload ammo for torpedo tubes, not worth it imo.

(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 19
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/26/2020 6:00:42 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Most late war IJN DD upgrades give a bit extra AA and/or Radar at the expense of reload ammo for torpedo tubes, not worth it imo.

Late war? Kamikaze, and Minekaze classes lose half of their torpedo tubes in first upgrade during 2/42!

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 20
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/26/2020 6:08:28 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14644
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
I have yet to see a DD torpedo anything in a PBEM game. I have seen it in AI games. You can't defend CVs from aircraft with TTs. I upgrade all TKs for flak. A large number of the IJN TKs also at the same time become AOs. If it gets close to the home islands and I still have any CVs, those TK/AOs will make good flak protection (en masse) because they won't be shipping anything around and they'll make tempting targets as well. And do convert any CLs you can to CLAAs, it's definitely worth it.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 3/26/2020 6:10:38 PM >


_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 2/21 it is 5/45.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 21
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/26/2020 7:19:55 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7072
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
IJN DDs is a whole separate post probably!

I convert Minekazes to APDs
I upgrade Kamikaze; I use solely as rear escorts for valuable TK or troops convoys, or fast transport
Mutsukis are good rear escorts, or AA escorts in a pinch; they have decent AA value

Yugumos are AA escorts; DP main armament means they should be with CVs

Akizukis (the 3.9 in DDs) are obviously AA escorts as well

Don't covert Momis to APDs, they lose too much speed; keep as DD, use as rear-area escort

All other Special-Type DDs (Fubuki through Kagero) are general Fleet DDs. One sub-class does have DP main guns, can't recall which one; that should be with CVs.

_____________________________


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 22
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/26/2020 11:18:49 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4258
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
why APDs? Japan treats each surface ship like some sort of fast transport, so I don't think there is a need to make a specialized APD?

_____________________________


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 23
RE: When an upgrade is not an upgrade - 3/26/2020 11:27:00 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7072
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

why APDs? Japan treats each surface ship like some sort of fast transport, so I don't think there is a need to make a specialized APD?


Good question. On the Minekaze, you pick up more capacity, and the only thing you sacrifice is old torps. If I'm not using them for surface combat anyway, I'd rather have the extra space. That's the way I see it.

_____________________________


(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 24
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> When an upgrade is not an upgrade Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.336