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Any hint for early cold war operations?

 
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Any hint for early cold war operations? - 3/18/2020 5:04:52 AM   
exsonic01

 

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I'm trying Downtown scenario, but I will going to purchase Shifting Sands and Northern Inferno, so I think I will going to use a lot of cold war weapons. And I really need some advice...

1) Missile management.
In Downtown, Phantoms are consuming missiles too fast. One part is low accuracy of 7D Sparrow and 9D Sidewinder missiles. However, I think I may need to change my combat style too. In WRA, I set 10nm for Sparrow's max engagement distance, and 5nm for Sidewinder. Would it be better to decrease max firing range to 5nm and 2nm, respectively? Or... what else method would be good to save some early cold war era missiles?
What I'm afraid is, too short engage distance would mistakenly force my Phamtoms to fight Migs with turn maneuver combat. Migs will use wagon wheel and my Phantoms would be in trouble...

2) Sparrow management: Last time I asked this and I even tested myself but I couldn't find any meaningful difference... does this game depicted the effect of ground-reflected signal, which can reduce the accuracy of early era Sparrow and all other early SARHs? If this feature is introduced in CMO then I better place my Phantoms in low altitude to shoot upper direction. But if not, then it would be better to place them in med~high altitude.

3) If I launch 4 planes for one AAW patrol, can I separate them by 2 groups in the air, and operate 2 by 2? Or would it be easier to set two AAW patrol missions with same zone and allocate 2 planes for each?

4) Any dogfight maneuver / tactics suggestion for early ~ med cold war era fighters like Phantoms? For example, in Downtown, what I'm doing is launch AAW patrol of Phantoms in 2 sections (4 planes), but operate them separately. Then I try something like Thach Weave using 2 plane (1 by 1) or 4 plane (2 by 2). F4Bs don't have guns neither gunpods and 9D is rear aspect missile, so it is not easy. But I think this is bit more efficient.

5) This is just pure curiosity, no other intentions. What is the limit of 3D maneuver of airplanes in CMO? I think I saw them trying something similar with Split S or Immelmann but I maybe wrong. Do they perform something like scissors, spiral, displacement roll, and H/L yoyo? I think micromanage wouldn't be possible to perform those maneuvers...

6) This is question about Downtown itself, why USS Ranger have 1966' F-4Bs? I thought 1967' F-4Bs might be OK to be included in USS Ranger...
For VF-21:
http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VF/Fighter-Squadron-21.htm
quote:

McDonnell Douglas F-4B Phantom II (1963-68)
McDonnell Douglas F-4J Phantom II (1968-80)
...
September 1967 - October 1967 with CVW-2 aboard USS Ranger (CVA 61)
November 1967 - May 1968 with CVW-2 aboard USS Ranger (CVA 61)
October 1968 - May 1969 with CVW-2 aboard USS Ranger (CVA 61)


For VF-154
http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VF/Fighter-Squadron-154.htm
quote:

McDonnell Douglas F-4B Phantom II (1966-68)
McDonnell Douglas F-4J Phantom II (1968-79)
...
July 1966 - February 1967 with CVW-2 aboard USS Coral Sea (CVA 43)
September 1967 - May 1968 with CVW-2 aboard USS Ranger (CVA 61)
October 1968 - May 1969 with CVW-2 aboard USS Ranger (CVA 61)


This source discuss about deployment of Shoehorn mod 2 Phantoms in 1967 to USS Ranger and USS Coral Sea.
https://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/2014/03/us-navy-f-4-ew-development-revisited.html
quote:

Appears on F-4Bs of VF-21 and VF-154 on the CVA-61 USS Ranger, VF-11 and VF-213 on the CVA-63 USS Kitty Hawk, and VF-92 and VF-96 on CVAN-65 USS Enterprise on their 1967-1968 Vietnam cruises.


In 1968, F-4Js in USS Coral Sea and USS Ranger is already regarded as Shoehorn mod 4, so it is safe to assume F-4Bs in USS Ranger at 1967 would be Shoehorn mod 2. In fact, I already edited my Phantoms to 67' model for for this scenario



< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 3/18/2020 7:41:24 PM >
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RE: Any hint for early cold war operations? - 3/18/2020 11:33:31 AM   
Gunner98

 

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I'm no expert on this era but I'll give some of your questions a go:

1) I think 10nm is OK for the Sparrows but you might experiment with the Sidewinders and drop it by 1 mile at a time.

2) I have no idea but intuitively I think its better to be below the target. Look-down; Shoot-down technology does not exist so being above doesn't make sense and I seem to recall some discussion about this a few years ago where it was better to keep your Sparrow shooters at about medium altitude to allow more flexibility. Not really sure though.

3) Either will work. You set the flight size in the mission and 2x2 is very common. However, having two patrols where your Phantoms are coming at an opponent from different directions may be better.

4) Well beyond me, I set the missions and let the pilots (AI) do their job

5) CMO will have them do all sorts of maneuvers, fun to watch in 2D and maybe I should pick up Tacview at some point to see it in 3D.

6) Not sure

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(in reply to exsonic01)
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RE: Any hint for early cold war operations? - 3/18/2020 4:21:10 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1041
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From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

I'm no expert on this era but I'll give some of your questions a go:

1) I think 10nm is OK for the Sparrows but you might experiment with the Sidewinders and drop it by 1 mile at a time.

2) I have no idea but intuitively I think its better to be below the target. Look-down; Shoot-down technology does not exist so being above doesn't make sense and I seem to recall some discussion about this a few years ago where it was better to keep your Sparrow shooters at about medium altitude to allow more flexibility. Not really sure though.

3) Either will work. You set the flight size in the mission and 2x2 is very common. However, having two patrols where your Phantoms are coming at an opponent from different directions may be better.

4) Well beyond me, I set the missions and let the pilots (AI) do their job

5) CMO will have them do all sorts of maneuvers, fun to watch in 2D and maybe I should pick up Tacview at some point to see it in 3D.

6) Not sure

Thank you so much Gunner, yeah 67 F4Bs have no LDSD. And yeah, I'm setting my Phantom AAW patrol in different zone placed in different locations but share the same prosecution zone, that way 2x2 Phantom's approaching become like a pincer without microing. I would love to see all those 3D maneuvers of Phantoms and Migs, too bad CMO and Tacview link breaks when too many airplanes are there. Wish they solve this.

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 3/18/2020 4:48:50 PM >

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RE: Any hint for early cold war operations? - 3/18/2020 7:28:34 PM   
Randomizer


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Rather than looking for a one-size-fits-all silver bullet, have a look at what was done in real-world operations.

Here's: USAF Tactics against Air and Ground Defenses in South East Asia 1968-70

It and other neat How-To references are available at: PROJECT CHECO

In CMO what really worked usually works in the simulation but every situation will be different and adapting historical doctrines is generally a better solution than just making stuff up or shoe-horning one tactic into a situation where it might be unsuitable.

-C

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 4
RE: Any hint for early cold war operations? - 3/18/2020 7:42:54 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

Rather than looking for a one-size-fits-all silver bullet, have a look at what was done in real-world operations.

Here's: USAF Tactics against Air and Ground Defenses in South East Asia 1968-70

It and other neat How-To references are available at: PROJECT CHECO

In CMO what really worked usually works in the simulation but every situation will be different and adapting historical doctrines is generally a better solution than just making stuff up or shoe-horning one tactic into a situation where it might be unsuitable.

-C

Wow, I remember I read Checo report on Linebacker before, but the first link is the new one for me and quite a interesting read. I will definitely check them. And thanks to let me know about other Checo references!!

(in reply to Randomizer)
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RE: Any hint for early cold war operations? - 3/18/2020 7:55:22 PM   
Randomizer


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Joined: 6/28/2008
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The great thing about Project CHECO is that the individual reports are downloadable as *.pdf files. Quite a number live happily in my CMO Manuals folder as references.

-C

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