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Dir 21- disband before withdrawl?

 
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Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/17/2020 11:26:19 PM   
carll11


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So units that are scheduled to withdraw, if I disband them before withdrawal I get the eqip. added to my replc. pool, some units come back, some don't, the ones that dont, is there any drawback that I need to be aware of if I disband them?

So I'll ask anyway to make sure I am clear on what I think the rules are;, if a pzr. div for example is scheduled for withdrawal or 'refit', and I disband it wont come back, like a 41 for 43 swap, is that correct?
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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/18/2020 5:59:41 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Is there any direction in the Briefing document? I just read the one for the companion Russo-German War there are a lot of mentions of disbanding but it's unclear when to do and when not to do.

It's on my future schedule to play RGW with the latest version, and I'll make a note to create some Disband Guidelines for that version. For the D21 version, it's up to your discretion or the advice of others.

(in reply to carll11)
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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/19/2020 4:07:37 PM   
carll11


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Is there any direction in the Briefing document? I just read the one for the companion Russo-German War there are a lot of mentions of disbanding but it's unclear when to do and when not to do.

It's on my future schedule to play RGW with the latest version, and I'll make a note to create some Disband Guidelines for that version. For the D21 version, it's up to your discretion or the advice of others.



Hi Steve, I read the Directive 21: Version 4.6 brief top to bottom, doesn't say.

In the toaw manual it says the following;

"Disband unit: Similar to Withdraw Unit, but disbands the unit with its equipment entering the Replacement Pool. The unit need not be on the map to be Disbanded.
This can be used to dump an equipment bonus into the Replacement Pool. Units disbanded by this method (as opposed to disbanded by the player in-game) are permanently removed from the Force’s OOB and never rebuild. "



So it appears that I can disband before withdrawal, get the pool bonus and they will come back when refitted without taking pool replacements from my 'on hand' inventory(?)

As a side note, I was under the impression, that units that are destroyed, that is 'evaporated' never rebuild, I guess thats wrong?











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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/19/2020 4:44:25 PM   
Lobster


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Evaporated units can be reconstituted unless specifically denied at scenario creation time. It simply means the unit has ceased to exist as a coherent force.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 3/19/2020 4:45:16 PM >


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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/19/2020 4:50:57 PM   
carll11


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thx Lobster....

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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/19/2020 9:09:55 PM   
sPzAbt653


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It's not so clear what goes on or what the best strategy is. I've got this from a D21 Background doc:

As the war progressed, the Panzer Divisions were often withdrawn from the front to refit. In Directive 21, these refits are handled in two different ways. First, some Divisions will be withdrawn by an event that the player has no control over. Typically, there will be a warning in the news string one or two turns before the unit withdraws. The player will not know when the 'refitted' Division will return. Some will not return at all. This accurately portrays the unpredictable nature of Hitler's decisions as to how to employ his units.
Second, most Panzer Divisions will undergo a major refit during the summer of 1943. Starting around turn 221 (8-1-43), the player will begin receiving Theater Options to refit some Panzer Divisions. Each Division gets its' own Theater Option. Once chosen, the three KG's from the corresponding Division will be disbanded, and new 'refitted' KG's will arrive as reinforcements. The equipment from the original disbanded units is used to rebuild the new ones. The original HQ, engineer and recon elements are not withdrawn, and remain in the game unchanged. This system gives the player control over the departure and arrival of these units. [Note: When the newly 'refitted' KG's arrive, they are weak and succeptible to enemy air attack. Therefore, it is best to let them sit in place for at least one turn before moving toward the front].


I know some withdraw, and some disband by event whether the player disbands them or not. Some return at full strength, some understrength.

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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/19/2020 9:12:45 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

As a side note, I was under the impression, that units that are destroyed, that is 'evaporated' never rebuild, I guess thats wrong?

I don't know what Background doc you have, but the one I am looking at specifies which units do or do not reconstitute [in each units' subsection].

(in reply to carll11)
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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/19/2020 10:28:23 PM   
carll11


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

As a side note, I was under the impression, that units that are destroyed, that is 'evaporated' never rebuild, I guess thats wrong?

I don't know what Background doc you have, but the one I am looking at specifies which units do or do not reconstitute [in each units' subsection].



Yes thx. I was looking at the smaller scn. brief not the Background brief...so, the entire LAH is withdrawn now in july of 42 and comes back a year later, Id like to disband it so I get its troops into my relpac. pool, it should come back in 43....yes?I dont want to 'eliminate' or 'delete the unit, thats my only worry...

< Message edited by carll11 -- 3/19/2020 10:30:02 PM >

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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/20/2020 2:23:11 PM   
sPzAbt653


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There is a topic for a larger discussion there, but instead let's look at TOAW Rules:

1. A unit Withdrawn will not return, it is gone for good.

2. A unit Disbanded may or may not return.


For [1], designers make multiple similar units so that, for example, 'LSSAH' can withdraw in 1942 [and by law be permanently out of the game] but then '1.SSLAH' can 'return' in 1943. Same unit to us, but to TOAW it is two completely different units.

For [2], part A, a unit disbanded by the player will only return if that unit is flagged to Reconstitute. This flag is not available in-game so it has to be in a designer provided doc or briefing, or the player would have to verify the flag in the Editor.

For [2], part B, a unit disbanded by Event will not return. This event is not visible in-game so it has to be in a News String, in a designer provided doc or briefing, or the player would have to verify the event in the Editor.

Confused? Well, I think it's supposed to be a little difficult to follow, especially for D21/RGW, because the design theory for these two scenarios is that the player should generally not be exactly sure what will happen, as the field commanders also were not sure when what units would come and go from their command. So like other aspects of these scenarios, the player can use the natural blinders, or they can study the Editor and get a little advantage. Its been discussed in other threads - should the experienced/studious be allowed an advantage?

(in reply to carll11)
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RE: Dir 21- disband before withdrawl? - 3/26/2020 6:39:58 PM   
carll11


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thx steve, a lot to chew on........the Nord KG came back after I disbanded it as a Motorized div.

On the other hand re; FOO ( fog of operations), my Tiger unit due Oct 42 never appeared and I am just getting into Jan 43 turn...we'll see if it appears this time.

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