Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Question about air strike target allocation

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Question about air strike target allocation Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Question about air strike target allocation - 3/17/2020 4:21:11 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline
Practicing "Pealing the Onion" tutorial scenario.

1) I have 2 radar and 2 SAM targets for my 2 F-18s, each with 2 HARM and 2 cluster bmob. all radars and SAMs are fixed.
First, I wish to make first F18 to use cluster bomb on radar 1, then launch 2 harm missiles against SAM 1.
Second, I wish to make second F18 to use cluster bomb on radar 2, then launch 2 harm missiles against SAM 2.

To do this, first I set "SEAD patrol" including total 4 targets in the zone. When they take off, I used manual target command to allocate weapons to each target. I first allocated clusters to radar target, then I allocated HARMs to SAMs.

However, unlike my plan, both airplanes launched HARMs to SAMs first. Then, due to lack of fuel, they abort the mission and head back to base... Radars were placed close to friendly base than SAMs. So, if they'd hit radar first, they could hit both targets. I thought the strike order from manual target command will override the target allocation order by "SEAD patrol" but it seems it is not...

So I tried "Land Strike" mission this time. But it was the same. They both prioritized SAM first (with HARM) then head back to base due to lack of fuel...

It seems that my attempt to automate strike, with my target priority, is not working. So... should I need to micromanage both F18s in this case? Launch each F18 without mission, use F3 to guide their path and target the radar with cluster bomb and wait until they hit, then target the SAM with HARM?

Are there any automated way to conduct this kind of ground strike procedure? Because, in the future if the strike package become bigger, it wouldn't be possible to micromanage all strike planes like that...


2) SLAM strike against SAMs from F18.
As far as I know, SLAM does not need the terminal guidance. It needs datalink from launcher plane for GPS, but terminal is thermal(IR) guidance, right?

I have 4 F18s, let them loiter behind SAM range using AAW patrol from 36000 ft. Then I select one F18, ordered him "manually engage target" to one SAM battery using 2 SLAMs.

The plane lowered the altitude very low, which was good and tactical, and then he launched 2 SLAMs. After datalink, I thought F18 would turn his head to opposite side of SAM. However, even after datalink is over, he fly to the SAM and fly over it. Later he shot down by MANPAD. To prevent this, I had to use F3 to manually turn this head to opposite direction.

How can I make him automatically turn after SLAM's datalink is over? Do I need to choose "crank and drag"? (For this particular scenario, it seems that scenario designer locked the option as crank only)



3) In general, what is the best way to perform SEAD/DEAD before strike target? Do you micromanage every SEAD/DEAD? Or land strike mission? Or SEAD patrol or anti-ground patrol?




< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 3/17/2020 4:31:22 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Question about air strike target allocation - 3/17/2020 8:39:30 AM   
kch

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 12/31/2014
Status: offline
Just out of curiosity, why do you want to hit the radars with the CBs and the missiles against the SAMs? I seem to remember that I did the reverse, and that once the enemy is blind, then the CBs are quite effective in damaging the SAM sites, as long as you come in low. Remember the SAM sites are many units, so the CBs are very useful.


(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 2
RE: Question about air strike target allocation - 3/17/2020 11:19:56 AM   
dcpollay


Posts: 521
Joined: 11/22/2012
From: Upstate New York USA
Status: offline
You have the tactic backwards. HARM stands for "High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missile." These missiles are designed to target radars or other electronic emissions. (In game, this means radar only). They will NOT target anything that is not emitting radar, thus they cannot be used against SAM launchers without radars attached.

You need to use the HARMs against the emitting radars, and then the cluster bombs against the launchers and any radars that are not emitting.

_____________________________

"It's all according to how your boogaloo situation stands, you understand."

Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

(in reply to kch)
Post #: 3
RE: Question about air strike target allocation - 3/17/2020 1:01:38 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5379
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
exsonic01

1) I do believe that the game has evolved somewhat since I built these tutorials. You're trying to follow guidance given in the briefing:

Launch your 2x F/A-18 with the HARM CBU load. Drop the CBUs on the radars and launch the HARMS at the SA-2s

But the logic for radar usage in the game has improved significantly and the SAM will - as you note - stay silent as long as there is another radar operating it the network. A few ways to get around this:

-Ignore the guidance and do as Kch & dcpollay mention - use the HARMS on the radar and the CBUs on the SAMs (best option now I think); or
-Go to your WRA menu, dial the HARMs right back, drop your CBUs then adjust the WRA again - not ideal; or
-Micromanage, not ideal; or
-Use one (1) of your SLAMs to fire at the SAM, this should act as a decoy and cause the SAM's self defence logic to kick in. This is also a good way of spoofing mobile SAMs into revealing themselves.

2) That is strange behaviour and you may want to post it to the Tech forum with a save game and a screenclip.

3) SEAD/DEAD is the trickiest mission to conduct. There are several viewpoints on the Forums but I prefer the HARM/CBU combo with a Patrol mission. I set the patrol mission at a standoff distance and the prosecution zone over the specific targets I wand to supress. Having jammers up and radiating is a good idea. If I have enough AC, I'll put HARM only platforms in the patrol mission and assign the HARM/CBU carriers as escort to the strike mission. Experimentation is the key and the more modern the IADS opponent the more difficult it is and you need to be more creative. To kill an SA-20 is a lot more difficult that an SA-2.

Hope that helps.



_____________________________

Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
Twitter: @NorthernFury94 or Facebook https://www.facebook.com/northernfury/

(in reply to dcpollay)
Post #: 4
RE: Question about air strike target allocation - 3/17/2020 3:40:22 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

exsonic01

1) I do believe that the game has evolved somewhat since I built these tutorials. You're trying to follow guidance given in the briefing:

Launch your 2x F/A-18 with the HARM CBU load. Drop the CBUs on the radars and launch the HARMS at the SA-2s

But the logic for radar usage in the game has improved significantly and the SAM will - as you note - stay silent as long as there is another radar operating it the network. A few ways to get around this:

-Ignore the guidance and do as Kch & dcpollay mention - use the HARMS on the radar and the CBUs on the SAMs (best option now I think); or
-Go to your WRA menu, dial the HARMs right back, drop your CBUs then adjust the WRA again - not ideal; or
-Micromanage, not ideal; or
-Use one (1) of your SLAMs to fire at the SAM, this should act as a decoy and cause the SAM's self defence logic to kick in. This is also a good way of spoofing mobile SAMs into revealing themselves.

2) That is strange behaviour and you may want to post it to the Tech forum with a save game and a screenclip.

3) SEAD/DEAD is the trickiest mission to conduct. There are several viewpoints on the Forums but I prefer the HARM/CBU combo with a Patrol mission. I set the patrol mission at a standoff distance and the prosecution zone over the specific targets I wand to supress. Having jammers up and radiating is a good idea. If I have enough AC, I'll put HARM only platforms in the patrol mission and assign the HARM/CBU carriers as escort to the strike mission. Experimentation is the key and the more modern the IADS opponent the more difficult it is and you need to be more creative. To kill an SA-20 is a lot more difficult that an SA-2.

Hope that helps.

Thank you Gunner, this is greatly helpful. Yeah I was following your guide but that was good too. Now I learned new things.

I will test F18 SLAM again in this scenario. I was setting them to AAW patrol behind the zone, and then I micro each F18s to launch SLAM by manual target command.

I have one question, when you set the SEAD patrol, do you let AI conduct the strike by themselves? Or do you use manual target command to allocate weapons and targets? Also, when you do use manual target, do you cancel patrol mission by u? Or do you keep patrol mission intact?

When I use manual target command to the planes under patrol mission or land strike mission, does AI prioritize my manual target and weapon allocation? Or does AI prioritize the target and weapon by mission? I'm still confused about this. Would it be always better to use 'u' key to cancel the mission when I attempt manual target allocating?


(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 5
RE: Question about air strike target allocation - 3/17/2020 4:52:47 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5379
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
When using a SEAD patrol I usually let the AI do it's thing. I control it by moving the prosecution zone around. By letting the AI do the targeting you don't have to watch which radar is emitting etc and it will auto fire. Remember that the SEAD mission is only an enabler - not usually you main task.

I think - and there are people who know a lot more about this than I do, that your manual target orders take precedence over the mission orders. I will often 'u'n-assign them from a mission if I want to change their task, for instance I often keep bombers or fighters on a support mission just out of the main fighting area, as I need them I'll un-assign them and throw them into the fray. You can get messed up by tasking units that are already in a mission but if they are on a strike mission and you assign targets manually that should be OK. It may be more efficient to play with the WRA settings however, less micro and more suited to larger scenarios.

B

_____________________________

Check out our novel, Northern Fury: H-Hour!: http://northernfury.us/
And our blog: http://northernfury.us/blog/post2/
Twitter: @NorthernFury94 or Facebook https://www.facebook.com/northernfury/

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 6
RE: Question about air strike target allocation - 3/18/2020 4:52:48 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13382
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: online
I find having a few a/c 'on-call' is quite handy when something pops up expectantly.
Especially after the mission planes have done their thing and some target didn't get whacked as expected.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 7
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Question about air strike target allocation Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.227