Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

A courteous PSA to all scenario designers

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> A courteous PSA to all scenario designers Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 1:25:21 PM   
Eboreg

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/14/2019
Status: offline
I know it seems rather simple to put submarines in Sea Control Patrols but there is a bit of a trap there, especially with diesel-electric or AIP submarines. You see, Sea Control Patrols have their EMCON status set to Radar Active by default. This will make sure that whenever diesel-electric or AIP submarines surface to gain more battery power, they'll turn on their radars and shortly afterwards, eat air-dropped torpedoes or depth charges because the player will take full advantage of their indiscretions. What this means is that your submarines will not pose any sort of threat that you would like them to pose making the scenario just a bit easier than you'd like it to be. I know this may not seem like much but I've even seen the official scenario designers fall into this trap so please, check all of your scenarios, check all Sea Control Patrols that have submarines attached to them, and make sure their radars are turned off.

Thank you for your time.
Post #: 1
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 2:08:15 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12372
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
I applaud the kind tone. Bravo!

_____________________________


(in reply to Eboreg)
Post #: 2
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 2:12:36 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1404
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
You are correct.

We "discussed" this once before, and the recommendation that followed was that "the radars should not be activated" was agreed upon consensus as being the the default solution by the posters. Apparently, the devs either decided against it, or they haven't implemented the change as of yet.

As you said, it seems silly to be all clandestine under the sea, lurking in utter silence, with no one knowing that you are there, and then rising up to periscope depth and alerting the world that you will be right here for the next three hours or so, traveling at 2 kts.

It really needs to be changed.

Doug

(in reply to Eboreg)
Post #: 3
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 3:08:14 PM   
Eggstor

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 1/24/2016
Status: offline
You know the moment the default doctrine is changed, someone's going to scream bloody murder when their MPAs assigned to sea control missions aren't radiating.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 4
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 3:28:20 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1404
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
Again, you are correct. But, I do believe that subs don't travel very fast (especially electric boats), and they need to stay at that depth for hours (usually) to recharge their batteries, so it would behoove them to be as quiet as possible, for as long as possible, when in that vulnerable position.

Doug

(in reply to Eggstor)
Post #: 5
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 3:56:37 PM   
Eboreg

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/14/2019
Status: offline
Yeah... the reason I brought this up was because I was testing the new version of Operation Brass Drum to see how much proper strategy had changed (spoiler alert, not a lot) and found out that all of the Iranian subs have their radars set to Active. I don't have a problem with Sea Control patrols having radars active by default, it makes sense in most cases, but I feel that this is something that designers really need to watch out for when creating their scenarios. I'm also not entirely sure if I brought this up before but this problem does seem to be endemic to the Chains of War campaign.

"Blue Dawn" has radars active on the "Sub North" and "Sub South" missions; "God of War" has this problem with the "Active Subs" mission while the "Surge Zone" mission has both surface ships and submarines attached to it meaning that it's probably best to not have the subs inherit their EMCON status; "Salvo" is an interesting case since the Charlotte, Oklahoma City, and Hawaii are programmed to have their radars on during peacetime but off during wartime which makes a certain amount of sense so I'm not entirely sure this is an oversight; Okinawa Bound has this issue with the "USS Hawaii Trak" and "Okinawa Phib Zone" missions on the US-Japan side; "Showpieces" has almost every Chinese sub patrol with active radars except for "PLAN 330 Trak" and "Sea Control North" and lastly; "Air Sea Battle" actually does have every sub patrol with active radars.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 6
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 6:36:04 PM   
goldfinger35


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2009
Status: offline
I agree. I was also surprised when enemy subs in Operation Brass Drum were detectable.

(in reply to Eboreg)
Post #: 7
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 8:09:22 PM   
SeaQueen


Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline
Something interesting to experiment with that I haven't yet, would be to use LUA or triggers to switch the EMCON for submarine based missions so that at night they turn their radars on (since they can't see unless they have fancy periscopes) and during the day they turn their radars off, because the sun is shining.

(in reply to Eboreg)
Post #: 8
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/7/2020 9:07:32 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1333
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline
Hmmm. I believe that could be done based on time of day with periodic time checks but that wouldn't easily handle seasonal variations, changing time zones, weather conditions or daylight savings.

-WS

_____________________________

“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to SeaQueen)
Post #: 9
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/8/2020 10:14:01 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 2213
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
This is actually being looked at at the moment, as well as some other improvements to submarine behaviour that have been mentioned in the past.

The Brass Drum subs shouldn't have their radars on--that one is on me

_____________________________


(in reply to stilesw)
Post #: 10
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/8/2020 3:23:36 PM   
SeaQueen


Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stilesw
Hmmm. I believe that could be done based on time of day with periodic time checks but that wouldn't easily handle seasonal variations, changing time zones, weather conditions or daylight savings.


The easiest way to handle it would be if you could just return whether or not it's day or night at the position that the submarine is located. Although honestly, most scenarios aren't so large that these things matter hugely.

(in reply to stilesw)
Post #: 11
RE: A courteous PSA to all scenario designers - 3/8/2020 3:35:48 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1333
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Although honestly, most scenarios aren't so large that these things matter hugely.

That's a good point - not worldwide and probably a couple of days at the most.
A little research on the author's part could determine the sunrise, sunset that would be associated with a particular scenario's based on its location and season then a simple time check would determine if the sensor should be on or off.

-WS

_____________________________

“There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.”

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to SeaQueen)
Post #: 12
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> A courteous PSA to all scenario designers Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.139