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Soviet tank division - 3/2/2020 9:01:44 PM   
Toolbox1941

 

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Hi,

So playing the campaign as the Russians for the first time over PBEM. It's turn 12 and all of a sudden a lot of tank divisions are turning into brigades. Also, all my tank reinforcements are brigades. So what I am supposed to do with these? They are going to get slaughtered.

Also, I have a bunch of naval infantry brigades, can I form divisions out of them? or just keep using them as reserved units.

Thanks.



Post #: 1
RE: Soviet tank division - 3/2/2020 11:39:06 PM   
Shalkai

 

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Brigades are not much use but that's what the Soviets make lots of in fall '41. Things get better about six months later. Tank brigades eventually can be combined into tank corps (starting 4/42) and regular rifle brigades can be part of the units combined into rifle corps (6/42). There are naval infantry brigades, and naval rifle brigades. One of those two can be used in the combine to make a rifle corps, but not the other iirc - check rules for exact requirements to make a rifle corps. Rifle brigades cannot be made straight into divisions, so just use them in spots where weak units are OK until you can start mashing divisions+brigade into corps units.

(in reply to Toolbox1941)
Post #: 2
RE: Soviet tank division - 3/3/2020 3:36:21 AM   
Toolbox1941

 

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That really sucks, I was rebuilding my tank divisions for the winter campaign. I guess I will be using my cavalry.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 3
RE: Soviet tank division - 3/3/2020 8:35:41 AM   
morvael


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From: Poland
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Yes, it's worth reading how the Red Army transforms between 1941 and 1943, so you're not surprised (as some changes are beyond your control).

Those tank divisions are supposed to be squandered in futile attacks during the hot summer of 1941 :)

edit: and cavalry is indeed good in winter 41/42, if I remember well they can form corps early, become guards, and have reduced costs of movement in winter.

< Message edited by morvael -- 3/3/2020 8:36:36 AM >

(in reply to Toolbox1941)
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RE: Soviet tank division - 3/3/2020 12:30:04 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 2465
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
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Toolbox,

I suggest you google up David Glantz' books

"Stumbling Colossus"

&

Colossus Reborn"

They are overwhelmingly expensive new, but a bit of canny shopping might get you there more affordably.

What is driving this is a combination of the purges of the 1930s crippling the Red Army leadership at (at least) division level upwards. Plus the losses of the summer/fall of 1941 crippling things even more.

There was a time in later '41 when the Red Army simply did not have any officers capable of division command in reserve, and pretty much none capable of corps command. So they abandoned the corps system, and new forming units were designated brigades - which was what they were, at best.

There is also the oft overlooked matter that the massive mechanised corps - truly a corps size unit in the western sense, with a combination of 3 large tank and mechanised divisons - had failed miserably in 1941. You can mount arguments that that was because they weren't fully equipped, their kit weas rubbish, they were under-strength, etc etc, but the Red Army terminated them and went to brigades, which as pointed out above, were later used as building blocks for a new "corps" mobile unit - which was basically a tank division.

All this learning on the job did lead eventually to the Guards Mechanized Corps, which is arguably the premier tank division (western size TOE) of the war.



_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 5
RE: Soviet tank division - 3/3/2020 1:31:28 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 933
Joined: 5/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shalkai

Brigades are not much use but that's what the Soviets make lots of in fall '41. Things get better about six months later. Tank brigades eventually can be combined into tank corps (starting 4/42) and regular rifle brigades can be part of the units combined into rifle corps (6/42). There are naval infantry brigades, and naval rifle brigades. One of those two can be used in the combine to make a rifle corps, but not the other iirc - check rules for exact requirements to make a rifle corps. Rifle brigades cannot be made straight into divisions, so just use them in spots where weak units are OK until you can start mashing divisions+brigade into corps units.


Two rifle birgades can be combined to make a rifle division, sometime in 43 I think. Airborne brigades form guard divisions.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 6
RE: Soviet tank division - 3/3/2020 2:26:19 PM   
Hanny


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Pay or free, free is better.

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Books/CSI-Press-Publications/World-War-II/

_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 7
RE: Soviet tank division - 3/3/2020 6:33:14 PM   
Toolbox1941

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/29/2019
Status: offline
Thanks all!!

Just another Russian deficiency to take into consideration.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 8
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