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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 12:25:14 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 321
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So recently, prior to Coronavirus, it was suggested by someone in the Government (or their advisors) that we don't need farms in the UK...

... there is now a headline stating there will be a veg and fruit shortage because there is no one to pick the stuff.

So the UK no longer manufactures much, how important our financial services will be post Brexit who knows, and now, apparently, we don't need to produce any of our food either.....

You couldn't make this up.


One lasting result I see coming is a move away from interdependency and toward self sufficiency.

That is only possible to the degree that the distribution of natural resources allows.

Sure, the US can move away from dependency on China for pharmaceuticals, but not away from SE Asia for rubber gloves.



Arguable. Just to stick to your example, you can get rubber gloves using rubber produced in Liberia (until few years ago the biggest rubber producer in the world) instead of Malaysia. They're gonna be marginally more expensive, but that's it.

It's a matter of cost. If we assume we can reduce somehow our consumption rates, we don't really need to purchase so much from Asia. Basically, we don't really need to "sub-contract" the world production to Asia if we accept that we have to lower our consumption, at least in the short-term.
In general, it's manufacturing that produces huge amounts of jobs and it's manufacturing that can help our economies to keep being relatively healthy and wealthy in the future. After this major crisis, we will enter in a complex economical situation and manufacturing is the main way to create jobs, whatever some streams of thought say.

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2371
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 12:34:34 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22650
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
A very large proportion of the world population is going to be cautious about relying on the Chicoms.

This is perhaps the only good thing about this global catastrophe

(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 2372
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 12:35:45 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42856
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So recently, prior to Coronavirus, it was suggested by someone in the Government (or their advisors) that we don't need farms in the UK...

... there is now a headline stating there will be a veg and fruit shortage because there is no one to pick the stuff.

So the UK no longer manufactures much, how important our financial services will be post Brexit who knows, and now, apparently, we don't need to produce any of our food either.....

You couldn't make this up.


One lasting result I see coming is a move away from interdependency and toward self sufficiency.

That is only possible to the degree that the distribution of natural resources allows.

Sure, the US can move away from dependency on China for pharmaceuticals, but not away from SE Asia for rubber gloves.
warspite1

Yes, I hope that this is a wake up call, whether its gas from Russia or food or manufactured goods from anywhere - there needs to be a certain degree of capability maintained - or where not possible, at least a recognition of who one is relying upon.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/29/2020 12:44:04 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2373
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 12:48:41 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22650
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
In the US the money spigot has been turned on the highest it has ever been.

2 Trillion in borrowed money (at <1% 10 year T-bill rates) and another Trillion or so already in "funny money" quantitative easing by the Fed.

Right now it would seem recession is inevitable but world-wide depression can be avoided if this doesn't last too long.

The lives of billions of human beings are being overturned by tiny spheres of lipids, proteins and RNA that have no cognizance of their existence.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2374
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 12:52:51 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 321
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

In the US the money spigot has been turned on the highest it has ever been.

2 Trillion in borrowed money (at <1% 10 year T-bill rates) and another Trillion or so already in "funny money" quantitative easing by the Fed.

Right now it would seem recession is inevitable but world-wide depression can be avoided if this doesn't last too long.

The lives of billions of human beings are being overturned by tiny spheres of lipids, proteins and RNA that have no cognizance of their existence.



America is fine.

Europe will be in a very, very complex situation. We have nothing even remotely comparable to the American economical answer to the emergency.

However, if Europe falls into depression, I suppose US won't be much healthier at that point.

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2375
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 12:57:05 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Boil a chicken and make some soup. Don't cover the kettle:

Study on new coronavirus says warmer weather may slow COVID-19 spread, and cooler weather may accelerate it

quote:

"Based on the current data on the spread of 2019-nCoV [or SARS-CoV-2, which causes the illness COVID-19], we hypothesize that the lower number of cases in tropical countries might be due to warm humid conditions, under which the spread of the virus might be slower as has been observed for other viruses," Bukhari and Jameel wrote in the research paper.

But, they cautioned, "The underlying reasoning behind this relationship is still not clear." When contacted by AccuWeather this week, the researchers elaborated on their work.

"Our key findings are that so far at absolute humidity levels above 10 g/m3, the spread of the cases appears to be slower than at places with absolute humidity levels less than 10 g/m3," Jameel told AccuWeather in an email. According to the National Weather Service, absolute humidity is "expressed as grams of water vapor per cubic meter volume of air" and "is a measure of the actual amount of water vapor (moisture) in the air, regardless of the air's temperature," which is what the above measurement refers to.


https://www.accuweather.com/en/health-wellness/study-on-new-coronavirus-says-warmer-weather-may-slow-covid-19-spread-and-cooler-weather-may-accelerate-it/707177

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 2376
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 1:04:23 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22650
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Excellent reference, microbiology, clinical..etc.

Johns Hopkins

https://www.hopkinsguides.com/hopkins/view/Johns_Hopkins_ABX_Guide/540747/all/Coronavirus_COVID_19__SARS_CoV_2_#1

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2377
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 1:04:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So recently, prior to Coronavirus, it was suggested by someone in the Government (or their advisors) that we don't need farms in the UK...

... there is now a headline stating there will be a veg and fruit shortage because there is no one to pick the stuff.

So the UK no longer manufactures much, how important our financial services will be post Brexit who knows, and now, apparently, we don't need to produce any of our food either.....

You couldn't make this up.


One lasting result I see coming is a move away from interdependency and toward self sufficiency.

That is only possible to the degree that the distribution of natural resources allows.

Sure, the US can move away from dependency on China for pharmaceuticals, but not away from SE Asia for rubber gloves.
warspite1

Yes, I hope that this is a wake up call, whether its gas from Russia or food or manufactured goods from anywhere - there needs to be a certain degree of capability maintained - or where not possible, at least a recognition of who one is relying upon.


Think of the cost and the time of manufacturing things elsewhere. The expansion of ports and shipping infrastructure plus their maintenence is not cheap. The people not working locally won't pay taxes and instead may work illegally and/or be on the dole. When I mean locally, I refer more to the region such as USA, Canada, and Mexico. Western, Southern and Central Europe should be considered another region. For the most part, each such region has a variety of resources and climates to produce/grow what is needed.

The May 2003 issue of Discover magazine has an article about how to turn any organic waste (plastics, what is flushed down the toilet, etc) into petroleum.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2378
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 2:06:10 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25002
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
In my business experience, this is pretty routine, people can't resist dipping into the cookie jar to grab some cash for whatever reason. Often it's just to look good and get a bigger bonus/raise.

https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2020/03/29/ca-dismantled-its-mobile-hospital-system-ventilator-stockpile-in-2011/

quote:


If Garcetti had access to three mobile 200-bed hospitals with ICU units and surgical suites, “50 million N95 respirators, 2,400 portable ventilators, and kits to set up 21,000 additional patient beds wherever they were needed,” he would probably feel a bit more prepared to handle the predicted onslaught.

California had such a system, implemented by former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2006. Schwarzenegger was troubled by the suffering he saw along the Gulf coast after Katrina and was concerned about a possible bird flu pandemic. Knowing that devastating earthquakes and “wanted to prepare the state for future calamities.”

...

During the 2008 recession state revenues plummeted, and the state faced a $26 billion budget deficit by the time Schwarzenegger left office. Gov. Jerry Brown cut the system in 2011, sarcastically remarking that “the programs had been set up to counter ‘a potential influenza pandemic which did not occur.‘”


Edit to add a little more.
quote:


Ventilators and Respirators

The 2,400 portable battery-powered ventilators were donated to county health departments and local hospitals. Medical device dealers told the Los Angeles Times they “recall many of California’s ventilators being resold by hospitals and nursing homes to other dealers, who then likely shipped them out of the United States.”

Out of the 50 million N95 respirator masks, 21 million remain – but they’re all out of date. Between 2011 and 2020 masks were used but not replaced. The expired masks have been released from the stockpile, but “are approved for use only in limited, low-risk circumstances,” according to the California Department of Health.



< Message edited by witpqs -- 3/29/2020 2:09:32 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2379
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 2:12:29 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42856
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
With everything exploding around them - Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium and the UK - the German and Austrian numbers just don't add up to me

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2380
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 2:13:05 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25002
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
Urns in Wuhan far exceed death toll, raising more questions about China’s tally

Questions about those numbers.

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2381
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 2:25:20 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
Status: offline
Gentlemen

Less do support situations going

Lets rock?

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2382
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 2:37:05 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22650
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Gentlemen

Less do support situations going

Lets rock?


Huh? Maybe too colloquial, Ian. Is that a call for optimism?

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 2383
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 2:53:13 PM   
Kursk1943


Posts: 362
Joined: 3/15/2014
From: Bavaria in Southern Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Gentlemen

Less do support situations going

Lets rock?


Huh? Maybe too colloquial, Ian. Is that a call for optimism?



(relieved!) And I thought it was only the stupid German again who didn't get the word...

< Message edited by Kursk1943 -- 3/29/2020 2:54:23 PM >


_____________________________

Serenity and humility and kindness and benevolence

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2384
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 3:57:22 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

In the US the money spigot has been turned on the highest it has ever been.

2 Trillion in borrowed money (at <1% 10 year T-bill rates) and another Trillion or so already in "funny money" quantitative easing by the Fed.

Right now it would seem recession is inevitable but world-wide depression can be avoided if this doesn't last too long.

The lives of billions of human beings are being overturned by tiny spheres of lipids, proteins and RNA that have no cognizance of their existence.


Yes, but there are LOTS of them. And somehow they know how to get to us and make it hurt. How is that?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2385
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 3:58:12 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25266
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Urns in Wuhan far exceed death toll, raising more questions about China’s tally

Questions about those numbers.


Makes sense to me.

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2386
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 4:02:32 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

In the US the money spigot has been turned on the highest it has ever been.

2 Trillion in borrowed money (at <1% 10 year T-bill rates) and another Trillion or so already in "funny money" quantitative easing by the Fed.

Right now it would seem recession is inevitable but world-wide depression can be avoided if this doesn't last too long.

The lives of billions of human beings are being overturned by tiny spheres of lipids, proteins and RNA that have no cognizance of their existence.




America is fine.

Europe will be in a very, very complex situation. We have nothing even remotely comparable to the American economical answer to the emergency.

However, if Europe falls into depression, I suppose US won't be much healthier at that point.


The economic hit for America is not at the corporate level as much as at the personal level. What do the people do who worked in industries that have closed, and won't re-open for a good while?

Social disruption caused by unemployment, poverty, hopelessness, could also be answered with other kinds of restrictions on freedoms, and force.

This is all a worst case scenario, but it's possible with a lasting emergency, lockdown, unemployment, and the same kinds of reactions happening in Southern Italy. Only with more guns.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 2387
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 4:08:37 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

With everything exploding around them - Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium and the UK - the German and Austrian numbers just don't add up to me


One is lots of testing from early on, and isolation of cases from the vulnerable. So the average age of cases there is 46, while in Italy it's 63.

Here is the article from the NY Times on this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/opinion/germany-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

First and foremost: Early and persistent testing helps. And so does tracking people.

Take the country’s first recorded case. On Jan. 28, a man in Bavaria who works for a car parts company that has two plants in Wuhan, China, was confirmed to have the virus. Within two days, the authorities identified the person who had infected the patient, tracked his contacts and quarantined them. The company stopped travel to China and shut down its plant in Bavaria. The outbreak — several other employees tested positive — was effectively contained. Across the country, the pattern was repeated.

Germany has also been better at protecting its older residents, who are at much greater risk. States banned visits to the elderly, and policymakers issued urgent warnings to limit contact with older people. Many seem to have quarantined themselves. The results are clear: Patients over the age of 80 make up around 3 percent of the infected, though they account for 7 percent of the population. The median age for those infected is estimated to be 46; in Italy, it’s 63.

“Both skiing and carnival may have affected the low average age of the first wave of confirmed cases,” said Karl Lauterbach, a physician and a member of the Bundestag.

Both early testing and incubation of the virus among the young go part of the way in explaining why the country’s fatality rate is so comparatively low.


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2388
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 4:32:16 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
It's pretty obvious that China are fiddling the figures. Italy, with 5% of the total population of China have three times as many deaths? Not buying that for a moment.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2389
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 4:48:33 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


"armchair spreadsheet artists pontificating on a forum."




I just wanted to ask if I could shamelessly adopt that, use it as a put-down on another forum.

Permission to proceed sir?




Why of course, I can't copyright it or anything


quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So recently, prior to Coronavirus, it was suggested by someone in the Government (or their advisors) that we don't need farms in the UK...

... there is now a headline stating there will be a veg and fruit shortage because there is no one to pick the stuff.

So the UK no longer manufactures much, how important our financial services will be post Brexit who knows, and now, apparently, we don't need to produce any of our food either.....

You couldn't make this up.


One lasting result I see coming is a move away from interdependency and toward self sufficiency.

That is only possible to the degree that the distribution of natural resources allows.

Sure, the US can move away from dependency on China for pharmaceuticals, but not away from SE Asia for rubber gloves.



Arguable. Just to stick to your example, you can get rubber gloves using rubber produced in Liberia (until few years ago the biggest rubber producer in the world) instead of Malaysia. They're gonna be marginally more expensive, but that's it.

It's a matter of cost. If we assume we can reduce somehow our consumption rates, we don't really need to purchase so much from Asia. Basically, we don't really need to "sub-contract" the world production to Asia if we accept that we have to lower our consumption, at least in the short-term.
In general, it's manufacturing that produces huge amounts of jobs and it's manufacturing that can help our economies to keep being relatively healthy and wealthy in the future. After this major crisis, we will enter in a complex economical situation and manufacturing is the main way to create jobs, whatever some streams of thought say.


Aren't gloves these days made out of nitrile, which is a synthetic rubber? Why couldn't that be made domestically?


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

In the US the money spigot has been turned on the highest it has ever been.

2 Trillion in borrowed money (at <1% 10 year T-bill rates) and another Trillion or so already in "funny money" quantitative easing by the Fed.

Right now it would seem recession is inevitable but world-wide depression can be avoided if this doesn't last too long.

The lives of billions of human beings are being overturned by tiny spheres of lipids, proteins and RNA that have no cognizance of their existence.




America is fine.

Europe will be in a very, very complex situation. We have nothing even remotely comparable to the American economical answer to the emergency.

However, if Europe falls into depression, I suppose US won't be much healthier at that point.


The economic hit for America is not at the corporate level as much as at the personal level. What do the people do who worked in industries that have closed, and won't re-open for a good while?

Social disruption caused by unemployment, poverty, hopelessness, could also be answered with other kinds of restrictions on freedoms, and force.

This is all a worst case scenario, but it's possible with a lasting emergency, lockdown, unemployment, and the same kinds of reactions happening in Southern Italy. Only with more guns.


I'm more concerned about sales-oriented small businesses that rely on, essentially, foot traffic and in-person patronage.

Breweries, restaurants, bars, all things arts, venues, etc. The businesses with a few employees, where if they don't have incoming cash flow for 3-4 months, could go under. While the aid bill passed this past week does pretty well for individuals (replacing 100% of income up to about a $50K annual salary, for 4 months, via unemployment claims) and large corporations, it does not do enough for small firms.

Those people who can't work can't file UI claims unless they lose their job. Small firms can receive forgivable loans to cover their costs (including payroll) if they keep their employees, but nowhere near enough money was allocated to that even by conservative-aligned economists' estimates. Obviously, not all of these firms would fail or not be able to bring back all their employees or some other factor, but some will that otherwise wouldn't if there were more money allocated there. I'm thinking of businesses like our local meadery, which has 4 employees plus the owners, and the local brewpub (a fixture here since 1993), where the quality of the employees are so critical to maintaining good business momentum. It's not like the giant chain retail store in the mall where employees are much more fungible.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 2390
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 5:08:16 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1933
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

You know, I am pretty sure that is a pangolin fetus in the soup.

Angry yet? Turns out the Chinese ATE all their pangolins so they smuggle them in from Myanmar

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989415300342

Study in Nature suggests pangolin may be an intermediate or additional mammalian host. There may be another vector or "amplification" species involved. What is known that the greatest sequence homology between SARS-2 and other known Betacoronaviruses is with horseshoe bat and pangolin strains.

For SARS-1 it was civet and bat.

I would wager not one in this forum could sneak in a half-eaten candy bar into China but somehow live pangolin are backpacked in from Myanmar over mountains and jungles with no roads.


This is an interesting article that brings a bit more of the industrialised food industry under scrutiny as related to this outbreak. We now it's not just the wild, but the domesticated, that can bring about these kinds of outbreaks.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/is-factory-farming-to-blame-for-coronavirus


Sorry, obvert. That article is rubbish six ways from Sunday.

The main factors with the rampant spread of human H5/H7 avian influenza in China are not CAFOs (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation-I won't use the same inflammatory language as they repeatedly choose to descibe these operations), but small 'backyard' type operations, their abominable biosecurity and anachronistic use of wet markets. Same story with African Swine Fever (ASF) that has decimated their swine herd there for the last year and a half and caused the price of pork there to skyrocket. And don't even get me started on bats/wildlife/coronaviruses. I'm just curious how many epidemics this sort of behavior has to start in China for the leadership to modernize? I guess five is not enough?

If people have an ongoing demand for consumption of animal protein, the best thing for the world is efficient production of well-regulated, clean and professionally tended flocks/herds. How else to feed 9 billion (2050 estimates) people? Resumption of anachronistic bronze-age animal husbandry and farming practices would be disastrous.


You don't bring up the point that in fact a lot of the backyard producers of wild animals were forced into that practice to make a living because they could no longer make it in an industrialised farming world with a small family farm. So there are knock-on effects, and we know western industrialised farms are not pristine, beautiful oases either. (NC hog farming?)

The point this article brings up is that human activity is bringing us more into contact on a large scale with previously isolated "wild" animals and their diseases. The needs of the 7+ billion people on this planet are increasing. The way to feed those predicted 9 billion people by 2050 is to transition to more vegetables and not so much meat. It's less resource intensive and the yield per area is much higher.



We as a family now eat about 1/2 as much meat as we used to, and make stews/curries/bolognese type dishes with lentils and meats.

Tastes the same, and is much better for you and the enviroment


_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2391
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 5:11:21 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1933
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So recently, prior to Coronavirus, it was suggested by someone in the Government (or their advisors) that we don't need farms in the UK...

... there is now a headline stating there will be a veg and fruit shortage because there is no one to pick the stuff.

So the UK no longer manufactures much, how important our financial services will be post Brexit who knows, and now, apparently, we don't need to produce any of our food either.....

You couldn't make this up.


Brexit still dominates the UK, to the extent that we are not joining an EU initiative for medical supplies, even though we are desperately short.

Its deeply depressing sadly.



_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2392
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 5:11:38 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25266
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled
We as a family now eat about 1/2 as much meat as we used to, and make stews/curries/bolognese type dishes with lentils and meats.


Aye. Ours too. That's great. But it's a far cry from 'diversify your diet' to 'meat=murder' and 'big=bad'. Unfortunately, the militant vegan screed preys on an uncertain public to opportunistically promote their drivel.

_____________________________


(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 2393
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 5:52:21 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1933
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled
We as a family now eat about 1/2 as much meat as we used to, and make stews/curries/bolognese type dishes with lentils and meats.


Aye. Ours too. That's great. But it's a far cry from 'diversify your diet' to 'meat=murder' and 'big=bad'. Unfortunately, the militant vegan screed preys on an uncertain public to opportunistically promote their drivel.


Aye, all they have to do is look at how much has changed over the past ten years and realise that the message is getting through and eventually we will be eating a lot less meat.

But their lifestyle choice is fine, its just one that isn't for me!

_____________________________


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2394
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 7:04:10 PM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

With everything exploding around them - Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium and the UK - the German and Austrian numbers just don't add up to me


Couldn't say for Austria, but my hypothesis is that Germany was detecting earlier while other places didn't start ramping up tests until people were more aggressively dying.

Germany is showing a (still modest) increase in its daily death totals now, and I wonder if part of that is just that they had started ramping up testing before people within Germany were starting to suffer the serious consequences of the virus.

EDIT: Obvert's response was good >.>

< Message edited by alanschu -- 3/29/2020 7:07:03 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2395
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 7:14:26 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8209
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled
We as a family now eat about 1/2 as much meat as we used to, and make stews/curries/bolognese type dishes with lentils and meats.


Aye. Ours too. That's great. But it's a far cry from 'diversify your diet' to 'meat=murder' and 'big=bad'. Unfortunately, the militant vegan screed preys on an uncertain public to opportunistically promote their drivel.


Aye, all they have to do is look at how much has changed over the past ten years and realise that the message is getting through and eventually we will be eating a lot less meat.

But their lifestyle choice is fine, its just one that isn't for me!


They don't want to eat bacon or beef? Good, more for me. It will help raise my cholesterol.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 2396
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 9:11:16 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 883
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
My neighbor's brother in law being sent to hospital in Savannah with pneumonia. Will be tested. Neighbor Shelley says it is starting to feel real.

I reckon that remark may apply to a lot of us.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2397
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 9:11:55 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 783
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Yes, you need the Army but they need to BRING something with them to eat. That is skirting close to a breakdown in social order. If the infrastructure still works the UN brings in bakeries (like they did in Sarjevo).


I just read the news, and the government is doing just that: 400 millions Euro are being set aside to provide food for families everywhere. They devised a scheme that gives more money to the needy (basically, if your family income is lower that the national average you get more money for food).

I can't comment on the numbers. My feeling is that 400 millions Euro is too little - but it is a step in the right direction.

And I still wonder what this will mean for illegal workers. Can they honestly say that they are maintaining a family with - officially - zero or close to zero income?

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2398
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 9:32:05 PM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline
Read this in a NY Times article.

Not surprising, hopefully the numbers aren't that much more explosive.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/world/europe/Spain-coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

quote:

In Italy, authorities have conceded that their coronavirus death toll did not include those who had died at home or in nursing homes. Similarly in France, officials have said that only those who died in hospitals had been recorded as pandemic-related — a practice they said would change in the coming days.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 2399
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/29/2020 9:39:17 PM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline
I'm unfamiliar with the source but based on other murmurs I've heard on the internet, sounds like Wuhan's death totals could be between 40k and 50k based upon cremations.

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/wuhan-deaths-03272020182846.html

(in reply to alanschu)
Post #: 2400
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