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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 7:23:44 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The good news, Alanschu, is that number of new cases has been basically level for four days now! Truly, that might be the leveling out of the bell-shaped-curve.


quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

I'm concerned about the 10-12% jump in new cases in a day, though.




I'm extremely skeptical that it is sustainable. I think it is far more likely that the perceived flattening is the result of one of two things: (1) testing is still not being done widely enough to accurately capture the actual spread; or (2) the relatively draconian (compared to normal times) measures that are already in place in the US's major population centers may actually be working, but would need to be maintained for over a year and possibly as long as 18 months for this rate of spread to be sustainable without the rate of spread exploding upwards again.


On a personal experience note here, I got a distressing call from my friend who has t. Still being denied a test although with all of the symptoms. He's managing at home, but most likely will not be part of the stats for the UK unless things start to go badly and he goes to hospital.

I would bet 90% of cases here are like his, and will never be counted.


_____________________________

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Post #: 1111
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 7:30:07 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

People are panicking because the stream of news is currently 100% negative.

As soon as some positive news comes in, the panic will settle down. Then it will gradually fade, as the situation stabilizes or improves in Italy, the rest of Europe and then the USA.

We're not going to be in lock down for months.




All recent studies suggest this will take more than a few months to get to the peak and past back to a sense of normalcy. It may not get normal at all if warmth doesn't slow it down until there is "herd immunity." Then we'll also have the economic and possibly the social unrest to deal with too.

I'll again be very happy if you're right, but right now the situation is too fluid to know, so such firm predictions just aren't possible.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1112
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 7:30:25 PM   
alanschu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The good news, Alanschu, is that number of new cases has been basically level for four days now! Truly, that might be the leveling out of the bell-shaped-curve.




Just to clarify, but it seems like the rate of new cases is "level" in the sense that it's increasing in a linear fashion right? Looking at worldometers I still see a trend line going up which *is* better than an exponential increase, but based on sheer volume I am concerned about static growth of deaths remaining stable if only because so many more people have been infected.

I do agree with BBfanboy that we'll see how things look as the quarantine persists which should have mitigated a lot of transmission vectors.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1113
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 7:31:50 PM   
Canoerebel


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He'll likely be counted in some form or fashion. In Chickenboy's many citations regarding the SARS epidemic about 15 years ago, there was info from CDC that, after the pandemic ended, it went back in and adjusted figures to take into account unreported cases, etc. I think CDC, WHO and other organizations will take measures to quantify everything that happened, as best they can.

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Post #: 1114
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 8:07:37 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Flu Vaccine Increases Coronavirus Risk 36% Says Military Study
https://www.disabledveterans.org/2020/03/11/flu-vaccine-increases-coronavirus-risk/?fbclid=IwAR2AOh-d-saqOhVo-6sex9U8ym0y5zhcrXz0KaacJ0X3uNN4I9c26k5Mbjc


"A recent military study shows military personnel evaluated who received the flu vaccine were at 36 percent increased risk for coronavirus with varied benefit in preventing some strains of the flu."

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Post #: 1115
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 8:17:54 PM   
Canoerebel


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Nobody's making firm predictions, Erik.

But the trends visible suggest bell-shaped-curves with less than a month - usually a lot less - to reach the peak (and usually around a month for the main rise and fall). That was the case in some Asian countries. Will it hold true in Europe/North America/etc? We don't know yet, but as we keep saying, Italy should provide the first indication.

My instincts here are contrary to the vast majority of reporting. I'm aware of that. My reputation is important, so it feels strange to swim contrary to the flow and to very publicly give opinions that seem to be outliers. This past Saturday, the enormity really hit home. But taking fresh looks at all the underlying data, I remain pretty comfortable with the conclusions and estimates stated here - even going back to the early days of this thread.

The USA is a big place. Some parts are already experiencing full-blown exponential increases; others are just getting started. But I'm confident (not positive, but confident) that most or all locales in the continental US will be at or past peak within a month, and some probably by the end of this month. More so for Western Europe.



quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

People are panicking because the stream of news is currently 100% negative.

As soon as some positive news comes in, the panic will settle down. Then it will gradually fade, as the situation stabilizes or improves in Italy, the rest of Europe and then the USA.

We're not going to be in lock down for months.




All recent studies suggest this will take more than a few months to get to the peak and past back to a sense of normalcy. It may not get normal at all if warmth doesn't slow it down until there is "herd immunity." Then we'll also have the economic and possibly the social unrest to deal with too.

I'll again be very happy if you're right, but right now the situation is too fluid to know, so such firm predictions just aren't possible.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/17/2020 8:25:11 PM >

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Post #: 1116
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 8:45:48 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

I'll spare you the links since it's happening everywhere, but jury duty and trials are being suspended all across the country. Apparently the "right to a speedy trial" isn't such an important right after all. Which other rights aren't so important? It shouldn't matter whether you are liberal or conservative, dangerous precedents are being set.


I agree. I also looked up the law where I live about the governor able to declare a state of emergency:

quote:

Declared emergency.

"Declared emergency" means a national security or peacetime emergency declared by the governor under section . . .

Declaration of peacetime emergency.

(a) The governor may declare a peacetime emergency. A peacetime declaration of emergency may be declared only when an act of nature, a technological failure or malfunction, a terrorist incident, an industrial accident, a hazardous materials accident, or a civil disturbance endangers life and property and local government resources are inadequate to handle the situation. If the peacetime emergency occurs on Indian lands, the governor or state director of emergency management shall consult with tribal authorities before the governor makes such a declaration. Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the governor's authority to act without such consultation when the situation calls for prompt and timely action. When the governor declares a peacetime emergency, the governor must immediately notify the majority and minority leaders of the senate and the speaker and majority and minority leaders of the house of representatives. A peacetime emergency must not be continued for more than five days unless extended by resolution of the Executive Council up to 30 days. An order, or proclamation declaring, continuing, or terminating an emergency must be given prompt and general publicity and filed with the secretary of state


Act of Nature is also know as Act of God.

quote:

Act of God

At common law, an overwhelming event caused exclusively by natural forces whose effects could not possibly be prevented (e.g., flood, earthquake, tornado). In modern jurisdictions, "act of God" is often broadened by statute to include all natural phenomena whose effects could not be prevented by the exercise of reasonable care and foresight.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/act_of_god

Epidemics, illness and disease, can be prevented.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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Post #: 1117
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 8:46:56 PM   
Zorch

 

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New coronavirus stable for hours on surfaces: study https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces.html

text follows

The virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is stable for several hours to days in aerosols and on surfaces, according to a new study from National Institutes of Health, CDC, UCLA and Princeton University scientists The New England Journal of Medicine. The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. The results provide key information about the stability of SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19 disease, and suggests that people may acquire the virus through the air and after touching contaminated objects. The study information was widely shared during the past two weeks after the researchers placed the contents on a preprint server to quickly share their data with colleagues.

The NIH scientists, from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases' Montana facility at Rocky Mountain Laboratories, compared how the environment affects SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-1, which causes SARS. SARS-CoV-1, like its successor now circulating across the globe, emerged from China and infected more than 8,000 people in 2002 and 2003. SARS-CoV-1 was eradicated by intensive contact tracing and case isolation measures and no cases have been detected since 2004. SARS-CoV-1 is the human coronavirus most closely related to SARS-CoV-2. In the stability study the two viruses behaved similarly, which unfortunately fails to explain why COVID-19 has become a much larger outbreak.

The NIH study attempted to mimic virus being deposited from an infected person onto everyday surfaces in a household or hospital setting, such as through coughing or touching objects. The scientists then investigated how long the virus remained infectious on these surfaces.

The scientists highlighted additional observations from their study:

If the viability of the two coronaviruses is similar, why is SARS-CoV-2 resulting in more cases? Emerging evidence suggests that people infected with SARS-CoV-2 might be spreading virus without recognizing, or prior to recognizing, symptoms. This would make disease control measures that were effective against SARS-CoV-1 less effective against its successor.
In contrast to SARS-CoV-1, most secondary cases of virus transmission of SARS-CoV-2 appear to be occurring in community settings rather than healthcare settings. However, healthcare settings are also vulnerable to the introduction and spread of SARS-CoV-2, and the stability of SARS-CoV-2 in aerosols and on surfaces likely contributes to transmission of the virus in healthcare settings.

The findings affirm the guidance from public health professionals to use precautions similar to those for influenza and other respiratory viruses to prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2:

Avoid close contact with people who are sick.
Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth.
Stay home when you are sick.
Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash.
Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces using a regular household cleaning spray or wipe.





Attachment (1)

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 8:47:53 PM   
MakeeLearn


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New York: Last Updated: March 17, 2020 1:30 PM
What You Need to Know

https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/home

The Governor and Legislature have an agreement on a bill guaranteeing job protection and pay for New Yorkers who have been quarantined as a result of novel coronavirus.

The bill also includes the permanent comprehensive paid sick leave policy

Governor Cuomo signed an executive order directing all schools in New York to close by Wednesday, March 18 for two weeks ending April 1.

Casinos, gyms, theaters are closed until further notice.

Bars and restaurants are closed, but takeout can be ordered during the period of closure.

Strongly advise only services and businesses that are essential stay open after 8:00PM
Groceries
Gas stations
Pharmacies
Medical facilities

All local governments must reduce their workforce by at least 50%. Non-essential state workers are working from home.

New York State is waiving all park fees in state, local and county parks.

Testing is free for all eligible New Yorkers as ordered by a health care provider.

Your local health department is your community contact for COVID-19 concerns.


_____________________________


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Post #: 1119
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 8:52:17 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: online
These charts show how things played out in China. There are some weird bumps, due to China changing its reporting criteria midstream.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1120
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 9:07:29 PM   
MakeeLearn


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"Do you wanna' score?"






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1121
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 9:07:43 PM   
obvert


Posts: 13952
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nobody's making firm predictions, Erik.

But the trends visible suggest bell-shaped-curves with less than a month - usually a lot less - to reach the peak (and usually around a month for the main rise and fall). That was the case in some Asian countries. Will it hold true in Europe/North America/etc? We don't know yet, but as we keep saying, Italy should provide the first indication.

My instincts here are contrary to the vast majority of reporting. I'm aware of that. My reputation is important, so it feels strange to swim contrary to the flow and to very publicly give opinions that seem to be outliers. This past Saturday, the enormity really hit home. But taking fresh looks at all the underlying data, I remain pretty comfortable with the conclusions and estimates stated here - even going back to the early days of this thread.

The USA is a big place. Some parts are already experiencing full-blown exponential increases; others are just getting started. But I'm confident (not positive, but confident) that most or all locales in the continental US will be at or past peak within a month, and some probably by the end of this month. More so for Western Europe.



quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

People are panicking because the stream of news is currently 100% negative.

As soon as some positive news comes in, the panic will settle down. Then it will gradually fade, as the situation stabilizes or improves in Italy, the rest of Europe and then the USA.

We're not going to be in lock down for months.




All recent studies suggest this will take more than a few months to get to the peak and past back to a sense of normalcy. It may not get normal at all if warmth doesn't slow it down until there is "herd immunity." Then we'll also have the economic and possibly the social unrest to deal with too.

I'll again be very happy if you're right, but right now the situation is too fluid to know, so such firm predictions just aren't possible.




Sure, and your optimism, as I've said before, is much appreciated.

This report form Imperial College, London, by leading epidemiologists, seems to indicate that the curves will be long depending on mitigation attempts and severity, but the best case of a full quarantine still shows some difficult times ahead, and seemingly for quite some time. There is hope, but vaccine is the golden ticket here, and everything else is just trying to save lives in the meantime.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

This part is in the discussion section and really got me thinking.

Disentangling the relative effectiveness of different interventions from the experience of countries to date is challenging because many have implemented multiple (or all) of these measures with varying degrees of success. Through the hospitalisation of all cases (not just those requiring hospital care), China in effect initiated a form of case isolation, reducing onward transmission from cases in the household and in other settings. At the same time, by implementing population-wide social distancing, the opportunity for onward transmission in all locations was rapidly reduced. Several studies have estimated that these interventions reduced R to below 1.15. In recent days, these measures have begun to be relaxed. Close monitoring of the situation in China in the coming weeks will therefore help to inform strategies in other countries.

Overall, our results suggest that population-wide social distancing applied to the population as a whole would have the largest impact; and in combination with other interventions – notably home isolation of cases and school and university closure – has the potential to suppress transmission below the threshold of R=1 required to rapidly reduce case incidence. A minimum policy for effective suppression is therefore population-wide social distancing combined with home isolation of cases and school and university closure.

To avoid a rebound in transmission, these policies will need to be maintained until large stocks of vaccine are available to immunise the population – which could be 18 months or more. Adaptive hospital surveillance-based triggers for switching on and off population-wide social distancing and school closure offer greater robustness to uncertainty than fixed duration interventions and can be adapted for regional use (e.g. at the state level in the US). Given local epidemics are not perfectly synchronised, local policies are also more efficient and can achieve comparable levels of suppression to national policies while being in force for a slightly smaller proportion of the time. However, we estimate that for a national GB policy, social distancing would need to be in force for at least 2/3 of the time (for R0=2.4, see Table 4) until a vaccine was available.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/17/2020 9:11:23 PM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 1122
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 9:21:19 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: online
Italy really is crucial in understanding all this. Crucial.

If Italy blows up, then all bets are off. If its experience doesn't in any way compare to China's, then it'll be a long time before we know what we're dealing with. If it's bell-shaped curve is radically different, then we just don't know for a much longer time.

If Italy begins to taper off, especially soon, then we'll have a much clearer picture.

As Italy goes, so may go the world.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1123
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 10:17:33 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2032
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Italy really is crucial in understanding all this. Crucial.

If Italy blows up, then all bets are off. If its experience doesn't in any way compare to China's, then it'll be a long time before we know what we're dealing with. If it's bell-shaped curve is radically different, then we just don't know for a much longer time.

If Italy begins to taper off, especially soon, then we'll have a much clearer picture.

As Italy goes, so may go the world.


We can get statistics per province from here (I posted charts earlier). And we do need that level of granularity, because it's quite possible that a leveling off in the north could be masked by growth elsewhere. There is just a hint of that in this table I put together in order to track that. Admittedly we're only looking at one day, but that's all I've got.





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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 10:25:17 PM   
alanschu

 

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Sounds like younger people are getting more impacted in Europe.

Though doctor quotes it as being a natural phenomenon.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/more-young-people-are-being-admitted-to-hospital-in-italy-with-coronavirus-as-the-outbreak-continues-2451319

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Post #: 1125
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 10:31:42 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2032
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

Sounds like younger people are getting more impacted in Europe.

Though doctor quotes it as being a natural phenomenon.

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/more-young-people-are-being-admitted-to-hospital-in-italy-with-coronavirus-as-the-outbreak-continues-2451319


"Younger" being relative: 12% under age 50, 52% between 51 & 70, the rest 71+

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 10:33:21 PM   
RangerJoe


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Somebody posted something earlier that the message from France is not to take NSAIDs.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to alanschu)
Post #: 1127
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 10:50:23 PM   
alanschu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Somebody posted something earlier that the message from France is not to take NSAIDs.


I've heard mixed things about whether or not this impacts things, which doesn't help people feeling anxious of course.

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Post #: 1128
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 10:52:01 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2032
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

Not having a cough from a flu doesn't mean that people never cough as well. I can have a coughing fit because of random dumb luck because some saliva went down into my esophagus and my involuntary reaction to that is to cough. I also live in a dry atmosphere and can casually cough throughout the day just from the dryness. It's just not a coughing fit nor chronic all day. I've obviously not really done empirical studies in my personal life, but I find it interesting how *common* coughing is now that I'm additionally anxious about it.

There was a study done with children that found that healthy kids tended to have coughing episodes about 11 times per day, ranging from 1 to 34. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8758131

This would exclude things like sneezing or blowing one's nose (normal numbers for a health person seem to be about 4 times per day). And there's a lot of difficult habits people have as well. I definitely picked up on one my teachers all did: wetting a finger tip to flip through a stack of papers.


This was a good post, and you are absolutely right. Just listen to any of us older folks in the morning and between the throat clearing and random coughs, there's a veritable symphony of forced exhalation going on!

Combine that with all the other random coughs and sneezes going on throughout the day, and it actually makes a pretty compelling argument that the "masks are only good for sick people" policy needs to be reconsidered. Yes, masks of all sorts are in short supply, but even a cloth bandanna would contain a cough or a sneeze.

That might be part of the South Korean success story. As Capt Beefheart told us, masks are required simply to enter the door of most businesses.

Edit: To clarify, if masks only go to "obviously sick" people, you've missed a week or more of stopping the coughs/sneezes from the asymptomatic.

< Message edited by Kull -- 3/17/2020 10:56:34 PM >


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 11:00:35 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Italy really is crucial in understanding all this. Crucial.

If Italy blows up, then all bets are off. If its experience doesn't in any way compare to China's, then it'll be a long time before we know what we're dealing with. If it's bell-shaped curve is radically different, then we just don't know for a much longer time.

If Italy begins to taper off, especially soon, then we'll have a much clearer picture.

As Italy goes, so may go the world.

I am not sure if Italy's example will translate exactly to other western nations because of cultural reasons. I have the impression that Italians are not used to following government instructions - having a strong independent streak that says "Don't tell me what to do!". I have this impression because of things like the government not being able to collect the taxes it is due because Italians routinely hide their financial info and under-report income. Traffic laws seem to be a suggestion to many drivers. And having a mistress is expected behaviour for men, even though they take the usual marriage vows.

I don't think Italians are ignoring the government at the moment, but they probably did before the epidemic became impossible to ignore, and they may not tolerate the restrictions as well as other countries will. OTOH, South Koreans, Singaporeans and Japanese citizens have a great sense of community responsibility and will likely follow directions closely for as long as they are required to. I put most other nations somewhere in between in following quarantines and isolation. All just musing on my part, but something that may influence the curve shapes (if we can ever get really good data from testing).


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 11:14:15 PM   
BBfanboy


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Here's an unexpected result of the pandemic - Brazil had 800-1000 prisoners "break out" because their "day privileges" were about to be cancelled for a lockdown of the prisons. Obviously the prisoners would not be among the most dangerous ones.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-jails-idUSKBN21407O

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Post #: 1131
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 11:34:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: online
Look at it from the flip side.

What would we do if China was still growing exponentially? What if China had millions of positives now and hundreds of thousand of mortalities, with no end in sight?

And what if South Korea was still going ever upward?

In that case, we'd be scared out of our wits. We wouldn't know if we could stop this, when or how. Our only recourse would be to search for ways that China didn't try, not knowing if any would work or not.

But that didn't happen! China and South Korea (and others) are pretty much done with this.* They proved it can be stopped (or all but). They proved the virus is not in some way invincible. This thing is beatable, and probably in more and better ways than we now know. They showed a way that does not equal Spanish Flu 2.0 or other apocalyptic outcomes.

IE, China and South Korea gave us hope. Mankind, when armed with real hope, is hard to beat.

*Subject to new outbreaks later, but we'll deal with that when and if it happens, and most likely more effectively.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/17/2020 11:35:58 PM >

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Post #: 1132
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/17/2020 11:37:26 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: online
BBfanboy, that's why Italy is such a tremendous bellwether. If things go sour there it may not be devastating news to other countries, for the reasons you mention. But if things turn there, and soon, despite the issues you describe, that will be truly encouraging.

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Post #: 1133
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:10:10 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14367
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

BBfanboy, that's why Italy is such a tremendous bellwether. If things go sour there it may not be devastating news to other countries, for the reasons you mention. But if things turn there, and soon, despite the issues you describe, that will be truly encouraging.

Good point! BTW, I am not pessimistic (in case it came across that way). I expect that by mid-May the worst will be over and the clamps will be removed one by one, region by region. There will be some resurgence, but we will have enough test kits and protocols in place to quickly contain those without widespread lockdowns.

The economy will take much longer, but agriculture (in our part of the world) will be a necessary industry and when it produces a good crop in the late summer and fall there will be a lot of employment to harvest and process and transport it. Other industries might not spool up as fast but travel within countries should - delayed visits to relatives and the like. And sports venues will find eager fans buying tickets in the fall.
But it will take years to recover the business losses and develop a boom economy again. I will do my part to spend my savings as if nothing happened!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1134
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:14:34 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5251
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Somebody posted something earlier that the message from France is not to take NSAIDs.



I've heard mixed things about whether or not this impacts things, which doesn't help people feeling anxious of course.


It may not have been Dr Fauci but I believe it was he that stated that the effects of NSAIDs are unknown. It seems that doctors in general prefer Acetaminophen to all NSAIDs because they are easier on the stomach. Also it works better along with opioid pain killers (I hear). For me personally Acetaminophen seems to have no effect at all on a headache. And it does have a bad effect on the liver if taken for a hangover (of course I've never had one but that's what I hear).

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1135
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:38:34 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 5188
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
NSAIDs apparently suppress the immune system.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to spence)
Post #: 1136
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:39:55 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 5188
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Australian researchers discover how body's immune system fights coronavirus COVID-19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/research-how-bodys-immune-system-fights-coronavirus-covid-19/12059266?fbclid=IwAR1KEkwmMRdF9zscMxIxbuYd_awU-PUP93QKlDYSQs3az47yHyPfGswqeNo

With so many things closing, expect a baby boom starting in 9 months . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 1137
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:42:48 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

In a few weeks people will be like what?

I don't get the gist of your question. What aspect of people (very complex critters) are you thinking of? Medical condition? Emotional state? Mental state? Political opinion? Physical condition? Financial condition? Nutritional condition? etc.


The insanity over a virus that is less dangerous that the common flu? People hoarding like it is a zombie apocalypse? Is over hyped to me. Overall the hysteria.

< Message edited by Scott_USN -- 3/18/2020 1:44:23 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1138
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:47:58 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 1147
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: The Land Downunder
Status: offline
I was in a meeting today that was dragging on a bit, then sneezed.
Boom, meeting closed, see you next week, maybe!

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Scott_USN)
Post #: 1139
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/18/2020 1:52:08 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

I was in a meeting today that was dragging on a bit, then sneezed.
Boom, meeting closed, see you next week, maybe!



LOL that is a good idea!

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 1140
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