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RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:08:11 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

To offer some perspective about my views on US healthcare and costs, I am self-employed. My company does not provide for healthcare. I've been responsible for my own health care since graduating from college in 1986. From then until 2013, I bought a family-coverage policy from Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Since 2013, my family has participated in a Christian healthcare sharing program - in our case, it's Samaritan Ministries. There are about four of these in the USA, the oldest of which has been around since the '80s (and that one had some problems back about 25 years ago). Under this plan, we handle our own medical expenses - everything from doctor's visits to medicines to eyecare. But if we run into a major issue, the members of the group cover the cost, less a $300 deductible. We didn't have to use that until March of this year, when my youngest child was hospitalized.

Since we handle our own costs, we negotiate with doctors. When we have an issue, we talk to them. They work with us. They appreciate being paid in cash (avoiding the cumbersome insurance market) and always give us good discounts. A friend of ours was quoted a price of $40,000 for a knee replacement. When he said he'd pay cash, the price dropped to $6,000.

My daughter had a serious (and ongoing, chronic) kidney issue when she was 12 years old in 2005. This made things very difficult for us financially for the rest of her childhood, partly because it's then we bought the business - carrying sizeable debt - two weeks before she got sick. But we've made it.

It's been a struggle for us in some ways but in most ways we're very blessed. We live in a mostly free, extraordinarily wealthy country. I had the freedom to choose what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it. I made many missteps. As a result, I drive a dented '99 Ford pickup truck that I bought in '99. I'm glad it's still running.

My parents lived through the Depression and my dad served in WWII. He never complained about freedom or health care or costs. He certainly didn't feel oppressed to live in a free country or that the health care system was unfair, draconian, for the 1%. I agree with him. I can't believe the level of belly aching that comes from a population blessed to live (mostly) in a time of peace and plenty.

Yeah, I'm optimistic. I'm glad to be right where I am, no matter what missteps I made and no matter what inefficiencies and issues there are.


That's a nice story.

As stated above, there's a considerable proportion of the population who don't have the luxury of having the freedom of choice of what. There is no choice.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 841
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:08:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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The virus doesn't care about politics but politics apparently colors how we perceive the threat. Reuters noted (as we discussed at length four or five days ago) that 2/3rds of American Democrats are "very worried" while "1/3rd of Republicans are." Reuters wasn't being political about it. Perhaps the Republican-type folks are sticking their heads in the sand. Or perhaps Democrats, who are disproportionately in urban areas, view it as a more clear and present danger (as John Dillworth said on page one, we country folks are lucky to live in the country).

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 842
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:09:09 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5251
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
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quote:

That's good that you're optimistic. Optimism is a good thing in most areas of life.

Not so in terms of public health. There is a reason that actions are planned on the basis of a reasonable worst case scenario, rather than the reasonable optimistic scenario.

That's worth keeping in mind.







Attachment (1)

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 843
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:09:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Thank you for the gratuitous and contemptuous comment, MindMessing. That's your way.

As for your statement, it's a falsehood. I know you're smart. I know you believe it. But it's untrue.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

That's a nice story.

As stated above, there's a considerable proportion of the population who don't have the luxury of having the freedom of choice of what. There is no choice.


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 844
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:12:54 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Expense is not an issue in the USA. It might be for a very few, especially those who are too far away or are afraid of going for legal reasons, but everybody who gets sick simply goes to the emergency room and gets treated. If you lived here, you'd know that instead of arguing with those of us who live here.


You're right, I don't live in the US.

I do however, have access to the internet. I really love the US Census website, it tells you all about people who live in the US!

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/09/who-are-the-uninsured.html

quote:

Profile of the Uninsured

So who were the uninsured? They tended to be 19 to 64 years old, male, have less than a high school education and/or have lower incomes. This profile is fairly different from the profile of the overall U.S. population.


That doesn't really fit with your conceptualisation, does it?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 845
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:18:36 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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I'm in the uninsured group. I'm in the 19 to 64 year old group. And I know what I'm talking about, as do others that have posted in here and as you acknowledged (but have since forgotten) two or three days back.

Not having insurance doesn't mean not having access to healthcare. Everybody gets treated. Consequently, everybody* know it. So when people get sick and don't have insurance, they go to the nearest emergency room.

*Caveat: there is a small percentage, of course, that don't - perhaps they suffer from homelessness plus mental illness and don't want to go; or perhaps they're undocumented and fear running afoul of the law.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 846
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:19:27 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thank you for the gratuitous and contemptuous comment, MindMessing. That's your way.

As for your statement, it's a falsehood. I know you're smart. I know you believe it. But it's untrue.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

That's a nice story.

As stated above, there's a considerable proportion of the population who don't have the luxury of having the freedom of choice of what. There is no choice.




The US Census disagrees.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2019/demo/p60-266.pdf

quote:

The official poverty rate in 2018 was 11.8 percent, down 0.5 percentage points from 12.3 percent in 2017.38 This is the fourth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 3.0 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 11.8 percent (Figure 7 and Table B-5).


See Appendix B (page 49) for what the equates to in monetary terms. Then tell me a $300 test is trivial.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 847
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:20:40 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2029
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From: El Paso, TX
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If there is any evidence that people in the US are not being treated for life threatening Covid infections, that would be appropriate to this discussion. Anything else is immaterial, and thus, by definition, polemic.

Edit: Actually not a polemic, although elements of that do appear. "Strawman" works better.

< Message edited by Kull -- 3/14/2020 5:25:52 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 848
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:22:35 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm in the uninsured group. I'm in the 19 to 64 year old group. And I know what I'm talking about, as do others that have posted in here and as you acknowledged (but have since forgotten) two or three days back.

Not having insurance doesn't mean not having access to healthcare. Everybody gets treated. Consequently, everybody* know it. So when people get sick and don't have insurance, they go to the nearest emergency room.

*Caveat: there is a small percentage, of course, that don't - perhaps they suffer from homelessness plus mental illness and don't want to go; or perhaps they're undocumented and fear running afoul of the law.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6125037/

quote:

Many people delay or avoid health care due to costs, even when insured.



(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 849
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:26:36 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The data really does have no political viewpoints.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/access-to-health-care.htm

quote:

Percent of persons who failed to obtain needed medical care due to cost: 4.8%



I don't see where the cost is concerned, the person or the medical insurance organization or the medical provider.

BTW, the CDC does have a political agenda.

When you keep stating "no political agenda" it makes it sound, at least to me, that there is a political agenda.


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 850
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:29:53 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The data really does have no political viewpoints.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/access-to-health-care.htm

quote:

Percent of persons who failed to obtain needed medical care due to cost: 4.8%



I don't see where the cost is concerned, the person or the medical insurance organization or the medical provider.

BTW, the CDC does have a political agenda.

When you keep stating "no political agenda" it makes it sound, at least to me, that there is a political agenda.



The person.

Curious as to your claim that the CDC has a political agenda, that's news to me, not being from the US. Would you mind expanding on it?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 851
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:37:56 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The data really does have no political viewpoints.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/access-to-health-care.htm

quote:

Percent of persons who failed to obtain needed medical care due to cost: 4.8%



I don't see where the cost is concerned, the person or the medical insurance organization or the medical provider.

BTW, the CDC does have a political agenda.

When you keep stating "no political agenda" it makes it sound, at least to me, that there is a political agenda.



The person.

Curious as to your claim that the CDC has a political agenda, that's news to me, not being from the US. Would you mind expanding on it?


Every governmental entity has a political agenda. More money, larger budgets, more control => more power. The CDC apparently stopped other entities in the United States from developing tests for the Corona virus, that meant that any tests had to come from the CDC. Meaning that the CDC could ask for more money, more employees, and hence, more power.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 852
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:40:46 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The data really does have no political viewpoints.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/access-to-health-care.htm

quote:

Percent of persons who failed to obtain needed medical care due to cost: 4.8%



I don't see where the cost is concerned, the person or the medical insurance organization or the medical provider.

BTW, the CDC does have a political agenda.

When you keep stating "no political agenda" it makes it sound, at least to me, that there is a political agenda.



The person.

Curious as to your claim that the CDC has a political agenda, that's news to me, not being from the US. Would you mind expanding on it?


Every governmental entity has a political agenda. More money, larger budgets, more control => more power. The CDC apparently stopped other entities in the United States from developing tests for the Corona virus, that meant that any tests had to come from the CDC. Meaning that the CDC could ask for more money, more employees, and hence, more power.


Interesting. Have you a source for that?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 853
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:42:22 PM   
obvert


Posts: 13952
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've talked "relentlessly." That doesn't sound good.



Dan, we're friends, we respect each other and we disagree. That happens a lot, but please don't alter words. I spent some time on my English major and words are important.

You "have posted relentlessly" in order to try to maintain a calm, patient and hopeful attitude. I respect that but there are points at which I believe we need to be worried. We need to alter behaviour. We need to look at objective facts, not just look for positive trends to stave off our fear or convince others not to fear.

That doctor's post I just read above outlines why that is important now. You, I know will be responsible, but those who are calmed and reassured that I don't know may not be as careful.

quote:



The outbreak in the USA didn't really start the big upward curve until the first of March. From late January until then it was mostly confined to Washington State and a few pockets in California. Little testing was done, but people weren't getting sick nor were there hospitalizations.



You keep saying this but it started before Jan 21 and we don't know how many people had it. A genetics test from Stanford (IIRC) stated that they determined there were already upwards of 9,000 cases in the US according to their research a few weeks ago.

Without testing we don't know when the real "big upward curve" began. That's only about positive test results. Many early cases, probably the usual percentage of mild cases, were thought to not be Covid because no one knew it was passing in the community.

quote:




China had it for two months before they began to experience exponential growth. Then it took drastic measures that have apparently worked. I am indeed optimistic about the quality of healthcare in the USA. There's no place I'd rather be in a pandemic.

It was growing fast in other parts of the world a week or ten days before it began exponential growth in the US. Europe is currently well ahead of the USA - a week or two. We learned and have taken action fairly quickly now. Maybe not enough, but things are beginning to roll fast now.

I see all kinds of information in numbers and trends. This is a medical problem with quantifiable trends. So it's interesting to search for those trends.

I remain optimistic. This seems to grate against those who are relentlessly pessimistic. It is a subset of that group whose conduct has been questionable in here, ranging from vicious to unthoughtful to contemptuous. Why is there a subset of people who will not tolerate different viewpoints? Why does the expression of contrary views agitate so much? Would yo uprefer that I keep my opinions to myself? Should I surrender them to the wisdom of those who see this otherwise? Is it better that I withdraw from the thread I started among a community I've been part of 18 years? Can we all march in lock-step?

I can start a new thread called "For Those Who are Open-Minded, Optimistic, or Neutral. Beware Those Who Aren't."



I'm a realist with hope. I hope people act, change behaviour, and do what's necessary to make a change in their lifestyles, workplaces and social structures to combat this threat. This has nothing to do with tolerance. It has to do with a disagreement of strategy around the communication and interpretation of data. It is objective, and based on research, not only opinion.

My hope is that indeed, some of this changes you. Being on the optimistic side and realising at some point that this is a bigger crisis than you may have imagined is okay. It's humbling, but it's okay. We may never agree but you have to realise that this has nothing to do with tolerance, it's actually part of good human communication. We learn by disagreeing and defending positions.

I know you know this and don't want to come off as combative. Just defending a position I believe and see the difficulty in how you've represented your position based on the facts.

I REALLY hope I'm wrong, and you're right, but the evidence doesn't support that right now. Please, Dan, please be right.




< Message edited by obvert -- 3/14/2020 5:49:27 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 854
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:44:17 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 827
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From: USA
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I think that the cost of healthcare is an issue for many Americans...

I've got a lot of pride, and I Hate (with a capital H) to not be able to pay my own way or my own far share. It's just the way I was raised.

Right now it looks like we might see free testing for any Americans here in America. Cool.

I think our economy is gunna take it in the shorts for a month or three.

I think the most popular loan for Americans later this year will be a debt consolidation loan...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by durnedwolf -- 3/14/2020 5:45:06 PM >


_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 855
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 5:48:17 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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The forum is populated by good men. Smart men. Well-meaning men. Any one of us would welcome any other and show exceptional hospitality in person.

But at present there is a subset of three that exhibit varying degrees of rudeness and contemptuousness. This is probably due to strongly held political views.

I'll try the green button, though that's no fun and it may take away a lot of context to the discussions in here. Let's see.

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 856
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:02:48 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Erik, this is a game forum; not a critical government think-tank. I started this to get input and because I enjoy evaluating information, to the extent possible. I made it clear that "I am an optimist without credentials," though I genuinely believe in what I'm doing and writing. Have I pretended to be something I'm not? Why such rudeness in response?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 857
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:03:56 PM   
obvert


Posts: 13952
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Erik, this is a game forum; not a critical government think-tank. I started this to get input and because I enjoy evaluating information, to the extent possible. I made it clear that "I am an optimist without credentials," though I genuinely believe in what I'm doing and writing. Have I pretended to be something I'm not? Why such rudeness in response?


There is nothing rude about challenging your interpretations of data.

I’m confused at how you’re responding to some very direct and objective posts that disagree with your stated position on this. Is it intolerant to see the data and come to a different conclusion than you, and post about that?

My wife is pregnant. She is due in 4 weeks. She just had news from the NHS that she may have to have a home birth, shouldn’t ride the tube, and shouldn’t leave the house unless necessary. A child was just born here with the disease after transmission in the hospital.

I am looking as hard as I can to learn, see how to protect my family, and be a responsible part of the greater community to protect others. This thread has been important in that process, and I will continue to say what I think is right to get more information out and keep discussion going.



< Message edited by obvert -- 3/14/2020 6:04:47 PM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 858
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:05:01 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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It isn't the challenge, it's the way it's done. Personal criticism and contemptuousness is rude.

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Post #: 859
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:09:02 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It isn't the challenge, it's the way it's done. Personal criticism and contemptuousness is rude.


In what manner has it reflected on you personally?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 860
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:15:14 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 5188
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The data really does have no political viewpoints.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/access-to-health-care.htm

quote:

Percent of persons who failed to obtain needed medical care due to cost: 4.8%



I don't see where the cost is concerned, the person or the medical insurance organization or the medical provider.

BTW, the CDC does have a political agenda.

When you keep stating "no political agenda" it makes it sound, at least to me, that there is a political agenda.



The person.

Curious as to your claim that the CDC has a political agenda, that's news to me, not being from the US. Would you mind expanding on it?


Every governmental entity has a political agenda. More money, larger budgets, more control => more power. The CDC apparently stopped other entities in the United States from developing tests for the Corona virus, that meant that any tests had to come from the CDC. Meaning that the CDC could ask for more money, more employees, and hence, more power.


Interesting. Have you a source for that?


It is the way that things work in any business entity, governmental entity, or other organizations. Offices with a window, corner offices are even more prestigious. A secretary for just one person and not shared, how many assistants (if any) are all signs of power. Even if they make the workload heavier and are not needed. I suggest that you take some college business courses for the sources. Don't forget to take simple economic courses as well. Not to mention higher level courses if needed.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 861
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:20:42 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2695
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The data really does have no political viewpoints.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/access-to-health-care.htm

quote:

Percent of persons who failed to obtain needed medical care due to cost: 4.8%



I don't see where the cost is concerned, the person or the medical insurance organization or the medical provider.

BTW, the CDC does have a political agenda.

When you keep stating "no political agenda" it makes it sound, at least to me, that there is a political agenda.



The person.

Curious as to your claim that the CDC has a political agenda, that's news to me, not being from the US. Would you mind expanding on it?


Every governmental entity has a political agenda. More money, larger budgets, more control => more power. The CDC apparently stopped other entities in the United States from developing tests for the Corona virus, that meant that any tests had to come from the CDC. Meaning that the CDC could ask for more money, more employees, and hence, more power.


Interesting. Have you a source for that?


It is the way that things work in any business entity, governmental entity, or other organizations. Offices with a window, corner offices are even more prestigious. A secretary for just one person and not shared, how many assistants (if any) are all signs of power. Even if they make the workload heavier and are not needed. I suggest that you take some college business courses for the sources. Don't forget to take simple economic courses as well. Not to mention higher level courses if needed.


You've misunderstood - a source for your claim that the CDC stopped manufacture of testing kits.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 862
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:34:50 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9244
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I don't know that they stopped them, but I do know that we will be importing Swiss ones and as I understand it, they will be license built in the US shortly.

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Post #: 863
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:38:40 PM   
PaxMondo


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Roche's test kit …

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/03/13/fda-approves-emergency-new-coronavirus-test-to-boost-screening-in-the-us/#39e454ef4fa8

What I understand is that beginning next week they will be shipping one to every metro area (one Level 1 Trauma Center) initially, then backfilling all lvl 1 Trauma's. Supposedly, the tester production is licensed and several manufacturer's are gearing up ASAP. Realistically, still 6 - 9 weeks away from having all the test capacity one would like, but at least there is now a solution. Roche won the contest ...


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Post #: 864
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:39:08 PM   
Anachro


Posts: 2319
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From: The Coastal Elite
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I don't know that they stopped them, but I do know that we will be importing Swiss ones and as I understand it, they will be license built in the US shortly.


Yes, by Roche. The ramp-up in production will be pretty quick.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 865
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 6:42:52 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9244
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BTW: my understanding with the CDC was that prior to the Roche unit, the other testing methods produced too many false negatives … very, very bad. False positives, not good, but acceptable. False negatives … no-no.

Roche crash tested there machine (I heard through the grape-vine via another US medical machine company) that Roche tech's had been 24/7 for over 6 weeks. They had 3 or 4 variants and they ran them all in parallel. Good call on their part, the people who sacrificed a lot of family time: kudo's. A lot of people are going to owe them a BIG thank you. Management there also, good call stepping up like they did.

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(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 866
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 7:16:22 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 827
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline
Hey RangeJoe,

In regards to the arthritis medications info and link you posted - I wanted to say thanks. My wife contacted her doctor to ask about any known complications for people using her medication and regimen for rheumatoid arthritis. The doctor basically said there wasn't a strong sample size nor many within his network that had any working experience with the virus yet.

In the end, he basically told her to try extra-hard not to catch the virus... <wry grin>.



_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 867
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 7:18:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Good point on false-positives vs. false-negatives, Pax.

Question: I understand (I think) why the lack of testing is such a concern. If the disease has escaped containment, is running rampant and undetected in the general population, should we very soon see (or should have already seen?) an exponential growth in people admitted in extremis and in the number of deaths?

There can be a lag between onset and full-blown maturity, but whether there is adequate testing or not, should we see exponential increases in admissions and mortalities? Especially in states like Washington, California, New York, Florida?

The numbers are up but (to my untrained eye) the deaths are much less than I would expect.

If that's true, in turn, is it due to the quality of medical care, the actual rate of mortality, a combination of these and other things?

In the USA today, the number of deaths is up by six. We're now two weeks into this. Given what I'm hearing and seeing, I'd expect much higher numbers, either now or soon.


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 868
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 7:42:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21005
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Here's today's total of countries experiencing the highest number of cases (as I understand it, China reports its totals at the end of a day, but tabulations for the other countries are adjusted regularly during the day).

I find this kind of information either encouraging or highly misleading. I'm not sure which it is, yet.




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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 869
RE: OT: Corona virus - 3/14/2020 8:03:11 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14365
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Good point on false-positives vs. false-negatives, Pax.

Question: I understand (I think) why the lack of testing is such a concern. If the disease has escaped containment, is running rampant and undetected in the general population, should we very soon see (or should have already seen?) an exponential growth in people admitted in extremis and in the number of deaths?

There can be a lag between onset and full-blown maturity, but whether there is adequate testing or not, should we see exponential increases in admissions and mortalities? Especially in states like Washington, California, New York, Florida?

The numbers are up but (to my untrained eye) the deaths are much less than I would expect.

If that's true, in turn, is it due to the quality of medical care, the actual rate of mortality, a combination of these and other things?

In the USA today, the number of deaths is up by six. We're now two weeks into this. Given what I'm hearing and seeing, I'd expect much higher numbers, either now or soon.



My understanding is that without the ability to test, MDs are unable to say if COVID-19 was the cause of death or not, so the official figures may still suffer from FOW. Almost every expert I have heard on TV (MDs all) has said the testing is the start point for knowing who has it or had it and all other data depends on that. I hope the testing kits can be rolled out within a week.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 870
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