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RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 9:37:44 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Trump cites Post op-ed to blast Cuomo for not buying ventilators — in 2015
By Bob Fredericks
March 24, 2020

quote:

Cuomo for reportedly declining to buy 16,000 ventilators in 2015 to deal with a potential future pandemic.

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”


https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cites-post-op-ed-to-blast-cuomo-for-not-buying-ventilators-in-2015/


Did you read the article?

Then-state health commissioner Howard Zucker assembled a task force for rationing the ventilators they already had that recommended that the state not purchase the 16,000 ventilators because there weren’t enough doctors and medical personnel to operate them.

Instead, the task force devised a classification system to prioritize which patients would be treated on a ventilator.


Aside from this, NY was going through the most intense phase during the time those vents were requested, and we can look back and say that many were not needed. No one knew that then, or if the lockdown would actually work enough to keep the health system functioning. In the largest metropolitan area in the US this is not an outrageous request in the face of a pandemic.

Like so many other parts of this situation in the states it turned into politics. So sad.


Yes, I read that. I also read where the panels that would make the decision as to who would get a ventilator and who would not were called death panels. But I chose not to post that as it might seem inflammatory.


And yet you still chose to post it was Cuomo, not his Health secretary, who turned down the purchase of ventilators? What should he have done there, said actually I know more than my expert in this area and he must for some reason be wrong, so I'll spend a bunch of taxpayer money to get these against advice? Would that have been smart?



< Message edited by obvert -- 5/9/2020 9:38:08 PM >


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Post #: 7201
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 10:00:27 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2907
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”
Well if Trump said it it must be true! , but it's not really the States job to fight global pandemics. Every State should be prepared to fight global pandemics? What about earthquakes, floods and hurricanes? That's on the states too? No Federal response to global events? Trump also suggested injecting disinfectants and I suspect that is not true either.


Actually, it is the state's job. The state's and the local government's job is to protect its citizens from illness, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and many other dangers.

As far as bleach in the blood, I am sure that I have had that.


Ah, that explains it.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7202
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 10:02:57 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Bad State Decisions about Nursing Homes Are Heavily Driving the Coronavirus Outbreak
By Jim Geraghty
May 8, 2020

quote:

Coronavirus outbreaks in nursing homes have been particularly deadly in California, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York.

You could make a strong argument that the country’s deadly coronavirus problem is largely a nursing home problem, dangerous everywhere but far more prevalent in a half-dozen or so of the country’s more heavily and densely populated states. What’s more, many of these states enacted coronavirus response policies that likely put nursing and assisted-living home residents at higher risk for infection.Coronavirus outbreaks in nursing homes have been particularly deadly in California, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York.

You could make a strong argument that the country’s deadly coronavirus problem is largely a nursing home problem, dangerous everywhere but far more prevalent in a half-dozen or so of the country’s more heavily and densely populated states. What’s more, many of these states enacted coronavirus response policies that likely put nursing and assisted-living home residents at higher risk for infection.
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Notice the New York state policy described by the New York Post:

The new Health Department info released late Monday adds 1,700 presumed coronavirus deaths to the grim total, suggesting that COVID-19 complications have killed 4,813 residents of nursing homes and adult-care facilities — and that doesn’t include those who died in hospitals.

Cuomo downplayed the count Tuesday: “I would take all of these numbers now with a grain of salt,” since “what does a ‘presumed death’ mean, right?”

So why on earth did his health commissioner, Howard Zucker, force nursing homes to take in virus-positive patients starting March 25?

The Post contrasted New York’s policies with those of Florida:

No Sunshine State patient can be discharged from a hospital into a nursing home without a negative test result. Florida hospitals had already refused to send coronavirus-positive patients back; the new rule means even those who show no symptoms must be tested and confirmed negative.
39

A defensive Cuomo on Tuesday claimed the state had done “everything you can” to keep the coronavirus from spreading among New York’s seniors. But that’s just not true.

Right now, a lot of people really want to believe that as bad as the coronavirus outbreak is, the consequences have been mitigated by good decisions made by governors like Gavin Newsom, J. D. Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, Tom Wolf, Phil Murphy, and Andrew Cuomo. But those governors, whatever their other strengths, all presided over state governments that served their nursing homes and assisted living facilities poorly — either through an inability to provide protective equipment (Illinois), insufficient attention (Pennsylvania), or by sending recovering but still contagious patients back into buildings with lots of other vulnerable elderly (California, Michigan, New Jersey, and New York).

The national media have paid copious amounts of attention to the risk of spreading the coronavirus in places like the beaches of Florida and the reopening of businesses in Georgia. A refocus of the national media’s attention and criticism upon the nursing homes in states like California, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York is long overdue. A lot of people have relished accusing the anti-lockdown protesters of “killing grandma.” It is time we took a more serious look at what lawmakers’ decisions led most directly to the deaths of so many grandmothers and grandfathers.


https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bad-state-decisions-about-nursing-homes-are-heavily-driving-the-coronavirus-outbreak/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=top-bar-latest&utm_term=first

The article does give some detail about some of the states problems and what happened. Read it if you want.

_____________________________

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7203
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 10:06:15 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Media Outlets Mislead Readers about COVID-19 Data
By A. G. Hamilton
May 7, 2020

quote:

The public overwhelmingly relies on the press to provide them with accurate information and proper context. When it comes to COVID-19, many press outlets are consistently failing to do that. In fact, the reporting on data related to the epidemic has increasingly led to conclusions that aren’t accurate and an audience that is misinformed.

The perfect example was an article from The Hill that told readers Texas was seeing “thousands of new coronavirus cases days after state’s stay-at-home order lifted.” Seems rather obvious that The Hill started with a view that moving into a re-opening phase is a mistake and things are getting worse, and then looked for a way to support that conclusion. This claim managed to mislead readers in two key ways:

(1) Given the incubation period and a lag in testing, new cases that are identified on a certain day are unlikely to have any relationship to policies implemented days earlier.

(2) “New cases” is a very misleading metric because it does not account for increases in testing. The rate of positive tests in Texas has declined significantly.

Mainstream outlets have attempted to tie new cases and deaths to recent re-opening actions in Florida, Georgia, and Texas, despite it being clear that any spike in cases or deaths would not be apparent for weeks after such policy changes. Such actions could lead to a spike in new cases, but trying to tie them to those seen right now is clearly incorrect.


https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-pandemic-media-outlets-mislead-readers-about-covid-19-data/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=top-bar-latest&utm_term=third

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7204
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 10:14:26 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Trump cites Post op-ed to blast Cuomo for not buying ventilators — in 2015
By Bob Fredericks
March 24, 2020

quote:

Cuomo for reportedly declining to buy 16,000 ventilators in 2015 to deal with a potential future pandemic.

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”


https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/trump-cites-post-op-ed-to-blast-cuomo-for-not-buying-ventilators-in-2015/


Did you read the article?

Then-state health commissioner Howard Zucker assembled a task force for rationing the ventilators they already had that recommended that the state not purchase the 16,000 ventilators because there weren’t enough doctors and medical personnel to operate them.

Instead, the task force devised a classification system to prioritize which patients would be treated on a ventilator.


Aside from this, NY was going through the most intense phase during the time those vents were requested, and we can look back and say that many were not needed. No one knew that then, or if the lockdown would actually work enough to keep the health system functioning. In the largest metropolitan area in the US this is not an outrageous request in the face of a pandemic.

Like so many other parts of this situation in the states it turned into politics. So sad.


Yes, I read that. I also read where the panels that would make the decision as to who would get a ventilator and who would not were called death panels. But I chose not to post that as it might seem inflammatory.


And yet you still chose to post it was Cuomo, not his Health secretary, who turned down the purchase of ventilators? What should he have done there, said actually I know more than my expert in this area and he must for some reason be wrong, so I'll spend a bunch of taxpayer money to get these against advice? Would that have been smart?


Yes, it would have been smart. Because he is the chief executive of New York state and could have said "We need to do better than that!"

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7205
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 10:28:48 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Yes, I read that. I also read where the panels that would make the decision as to who would get a ventilator and who would not were called death panels. But I chose not to post that as it might seem inflammatory.
Oh how times have changed. Fox News used to say Obamacare would have death panels. Now you have the people in the meatpacking plants, with the highest infection rates, being forced back to work by being made mandatory employees.


Have you read the CDC guidelines or are you complaining just to complain?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 7206
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 10:35:39 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

“He had 16,000 ventilators that he could have bought and he didn’t buy them. He should’ve ordered the ventilators,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall. “They can’t blame us for that. Gov. Cuomo is supposed to be buying his own ventilators.”
Well if Trump said it it must be true! , but it's not really the States job to fight global pandemics. Every State should be prepared to fight global pandemics? What about earthquakes, floods and hurricanes? That's on the states too? No Federal response to global events? Trump also suggested injecting disinfectants and I suspect that is not true either.


Actually, it is the state's job. The state's and the local government's job is to protect its citizens from illness, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and many other dangers.

As far as bleach in the blood, I am sure that I have had that.


Ah, that explains it.


Have you never had a bacterial infection?

quote:

The Human Body Uses Active Ingredient in Chlorine Bleach to Fight Bacteria Naturally
By Joan B. Rose, PhD
March 23, 2018

We live in an age in which scientists regularly reveal remarkable details of the inner workings of the human body. Recently, a group of German researchers shed new light on the composition of the “antibacterial cocktail” that our immune systems concoct to fight off infection.1 The scientists demonstrated that the active chemical in that cocktail is none other than hypochlorous acid, the active ingredient in chlorine bleach.

First Responders in the Body

Phagocytosis is the term used to describe the ingestion of a cell or cell fragment. Immune system cells in the human body are the first responders to bacterial infection, initially surrounding the pathogenic cells with a strong potion that includes hydrogen peroxide and hypochlorous acid, and then ingesting the resulting “broth.” The soaking destroys invader bacteria by chemically oxidizing them. Until the new study was published, however, it was unclear which of the components of the “cocktail” is most important to phagocytosis.
.
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Hundreds of thousands of years before chlorine bleach was invented and used by people for laundry whitening and disinfection, the human body was producing and utilizing hypochlorous acid internally to ward off infection for millennia. This point is made clear in The Secret Life of Bleach video featuring the work of University of Michigan professor and researcher, Dr. Ursula Jakob. Dr. Jakob and her team revealed the mechanism by which bleach destroys proteins in bacteria by “unfolding” their complex, three-dimensional structures. This insight, combined with the new research, presents an even more detailed perspective on how our bodies use hypochlorous acid, a chemical product identical to the active ingredient in chlorine bleach, to fight infection and stay well.


https://waterandhealth.org/disinfect/human-body-uses-active-ingredient-chlorine-bleach-fight-bacteria-naturally/

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 7207
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 11:15:17 PM   
Lowpe


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Pa. had early plan to protect nursing homes from the coronavirus, but never fully implemented it

https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2020/05/pennsylvania-coronavirus-nursing-homes-plan-quick-strike-teams/

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7208
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 11:26:13 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
I thought Elon Musk had stepped down from running the business...

Elon Musk says Tesla will 'immediately' leave California after coronavirus shutdowns forced the company to close its main car factory

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-tesla-immediately-173400044.html

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7209
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 11:46:00 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Pa. had early plan to protect nursing homes from the coronavirus, but never fully implemented it

https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2020/05/pennsylvania-coronavirus-nursing-homes-plan-quick-strike-teams/


To put it very politely, that effing response sux the big one. I think that there needs to be a management shake up in Pennsylvania.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7210
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/9/2020 11:55:03 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I thought Elon Musk had stepped down from running the business...

Elon Musk says Tesla will 'immediately' leave California after coronavirus shutdowns forced the company to close its main car factory

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-tesla-immediately-173400044.html


I posted that earlier, no problem with reposting it. It shows how some people will vote with their economic power about the lockdowns.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 7211
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 12:00:29 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
About time:

quote:

New York City is readying 1,200 hotel rooms with laundry service and meals as part of the city's coronavirus testing and tracing efforts
Business Insider
May 9, 2020

This spring and summer, a new corps of disease detectives will be on a mission to hunt down every case of the coronavirus in New York City and get the illnesses off the streets.

Their job will be to let anyone who might've been exposed to a confirmed COVID-19 case know: you could be next.
.
.
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This spring and summer, a new corps of disease detectives will be on a mission to hunt down every case of the coronavirus in New York City and get the illnesses off the streets.

Their job will be to let anyone who might've been exposed to a confirmed COVID-19 case know: you could be next.
.
.
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The city is also readying 1,200 hotel rooms, which will be available by June for the testing and tracing project. The hotel rooms are to be used as safe shelters for people who can't properly self-quarantine at home.

Levine said that the hotel rooms would be paid for by the city, but "with significant reimbursement from FEMA."

"If you live in the kind of home or apartment where there's enough space and you can be separated from other people in the home the right way — people are doing it all the time — that's fine, but there are many, many New Yorkers who live in such crowded circumstances that they simply couldn't isolate properly," de Blasio said of the hotel program.

"It is not just, 'Here's a hotel room, have a nice day.' It is, 'We're going to get you to a hotel room, we're going to transport you, we're going to make sure that you have food, we're going to make sure you have medical care, we're going to make sure you have laundry, whatever it takes.'"


https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-readying-1-200-221309246.html



_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7212
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 12:11:00 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Nurse arrested in theft of credit card from dying COVID-19 patient, police say
USA TODAY•May 8, 2020

quote:

A nurse at a New York City hospital was arrested Thursday after police say she stole a credit card from a patient who later died of COVID-19.

Danielle Conti, 43, took a credit card from a 70-year-old patient while he was being treated at Staten Island University Hospital, the NYPD said. Conti is facing charges of grand larceny, petit larceny and criminal possession of stolen property, police said.
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Anthony Catapano died of COVID-19 on April 12 after more than a week of treatment at the hospital, according to a Facebook post in April from his daughter, Tara Catapano. She said that when she went to pick up her father's things, several items were missing, including his cellphone, eyeglasses, two cellphone chargers, money and a buzzer.

Two weeks later, Catapano said she got a bill for her father's Amex with two charges for gas and groceries listed during the time he was in the hospital. Because visitors weren't allowed in the hospital during the pandemic, Catapano believed a hospital employee stole her father's credit card, used it and then returned it to his wallet.

"This behavior is disgusting and unacceptable," she wrote. "I am going through so much with losing my father, this is the absolute last thing that I need."


https://news.yahoo.com/nurse-arrested-allegedly-stealing-credit-130634933.html

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7213
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 12:25:32 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I spent the day hiking a long mountain trail with my daughter and son-in-law. Afterwards, we had dinner at a country grill. It's still closed, as are most (but not all) restaurants in my part of Georgia. We purchased inside and ate outside, served at a picnic table. Regarding this thread, there's no way deeply held convictions built and tested over a lifetime are going to be changed here. I won't change my views about federalism, freedom, and a market economy. I don't expect you who feel differently to change your opinions. I won't assert that your state or country is doing things wrong. I will offer that I'm satisfied mine is doing things right, and if you disagree I'll defend my positions. In doing so, I won't wish any of you ill.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7214
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 12:58:29 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
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From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
Damn am I glad I took a few steps back for a while.

Watching you all take pot shots at each other is actually rather entertaining.

Well, time to wade back in.

A quick thrust at all you Eurosocialists damning the US for not implementing nation wide orders.....

So ALL of the European continent implemented the same imperial edict orders and followed them?

Many of our states are three times the size of many of your nations...........yet is is OK for your individual nations to go their own ways....but not for our states?

My what hypocrites you all are.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 7215
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 1:04:26 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
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From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
CR will appreciate this:

Narrative Fail: 15 Days After Lockdown Ease, Georgia Sees Lowest Day Of COVID Hospitalizations


https://www.dailywire.com/news/narrative-fail-15-days-after-lockdown-ease-georgia-sees-lowest-day-of-covid-hospitalizations


and a fine example of what 'models' are worth:

According to a daunting CNN headline published April 28, “Georgia’s daily coronavirus deaths will nearly double by August with relaxed social distancing, model suggests.”


Models are only as good as the variables humans are aware of to include in the model.

In the historic words of Rumsfeld its the "unknown unkowns" that matter and that make most models worthless.

The field of Cosmology has struggled with this problem for a very long time.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/10/2020 1:09:30 AM >


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 7216
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 1:07:12 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
That's good news, but both of the past two weeks, Georgia has had low reports during the weekends with much higher the following Mondays and Tuesdays. So I have my fingers crossed, hoping and optimistic but a bit wary.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 7217
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 2:19:21 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22601
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
We've gone to full face masks and respiratory masks for every hospital patient contact, even newborns. Lab coat. Gloves. I did that today for about 4 1/2 hrs. Absolutely exhausting. Essentially, about 1/2 hr of that is washing your hands 25 times. If your mask fits properly you have to walk slowly because you are rebreathing your own CO2. You can't do a good exam with the face shield on because you can't get the ophthalmoscope close enough to your eyeball. It gets hot. The vapor barrier in the makes you sweat like Dick Nixon.

You are instructed to reused your face shield and I have to bring my own mask. You stick your face shield in a paper bag and hope anything on there dies during the night.

At my wife's hospital there was a code on a COVID patient. Everyone puts on the moon suits and they do battle because the risk is off the charts to the staff. One of the male nurses had a malfunction of his air supply/filter system than brings in filtered air and exhausts CO2 and water vapor. From the exertion he got light headed and confused and had to be taken to the ER. They gave him 2 liters of saline and sent him home for two weeks. The damn thing is 100% humidity and hotter than Florida in July after 2 minutes.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 7218
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 2:27:03 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Cap, I was gone most of the day but saw your a.m. post about two nurses testing positive. Is that the reason for the additional precautions you're taking?

What does your wife do?

From Worldometers it looks like active cases are rising in Calif, while mortality is about level. What's your sense of things "on the ground." Getting worse? Better? About the same?

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 7219
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 2:44:34 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8206
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
The 1957 flu that killed one million people

In 1957 a new strain of avian flu emerged in East Asia and quickly spread around the world, killing at least one million people.

Sumi Krishna was nine years old when she caught the virus in India.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/stories-52582124/the-1957-flu-that-killed-one-million-people

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 7220
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 3:34:31 AM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4702
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The 1957 flu that killed one million people

In 1957 a new strain of avian flu emerged in East Asia and quickly spread around the world, killing at least one million people.

Sumi Krishna was nine years old when she caught the virus in India.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/stories-52582124/the-1957-flu-that-killed-one-million-people


I was 11 years old for that one. I do not remember anything that we did special

_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7221
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 7:30:03 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 42835
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From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Damn am I glad I took a few steps back for a while.

Watching you all take pot shots at each other is actually rather entertaining.

Well, time to wade back in.

A quick thrust at all you Eurosocialists damning the US for not implementing nation wide orders.....

So ALL of the European continent implemented the same imperial edict orders and followed them?

Many of our states are three times the size of many of your nations...........yet is is OK for your individual nations to go their own ways....but not for our states?

My what hypocrites you all are.
warspite1

If he read something (or even thought he read something – the facts of the matter weren’t that important to him) that he didn’t like and was written by a European, Osterhaut/Symon/JWE used to often refer to them as EuroNazis .

Well I guess Eurosocialists is a little less harsh (depending on one’s politics ), but why the ‘Eurosocialists’ appendage in any case? Do you have it on some clear authority that lockdown/limited lockdown/no lockdown is uniformly split along party lines? Splits and factions within various governing parties would suggest otherwise…..

And why the need for a ‘quick thrust at Euro (socialist)’ peans at all given that what you are upset about has been stated by Americans too? Indeed one of the most vociferous on this subject I believe is an American. If you want to take exception to, and argue with, individuals then fine, but to try and label a set of people in such a way doesn’t help. Why do so many of these arguments come down to “my country is better than your country?” What are we 10-years old?

And I won’t ask why would there be an ‘imperial order’ for ‘ALL’ of the European continent (why, in your view, is it right the United States are treated as the United States but a Briton or a German or a Bulgarian or a Norwegian have to be treated as Europeans?). I assume you were just angry and didn’t mean to write something that actually makes no sense and you probably know the answer to.

A genuine question though:

Who (whether American, European or Eurosocialist (whatever that is)) has actually stated on here that the US states acting singularly is wrong, but German Lander (for example) doing the same thing is right? I assume there must be a lot, at least in the European bracket, because you’ve said “my what hypocrites you all are”.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/10/2020 8:14:34 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 7222
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 8:23:05 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Media Outlets Mislead Readers about COVID-19 Data
By A. G. Hamilton
May 7, 2020

quote:

The public overwhelmingly relies on the press to provide them with accurate information and proper context. When it comes to COVID-19, many press outlets are consistently failing to do that. In fact, the reporting on data related to the epidemic has increasingly led to conclusions that aren’t accurate and an audience that is misinformed.

The perfect example was an article from The Hill that told readers Texas was seeing “thousands of new coronavirus cases days after state’s stay-at-home order lifted.” Seems rather obvious that The Hill started with a view that moving into a re-opening phase is a mistake and things are getting worse, and then looked for a way to support that conclusion. This claim managed to mislead readers in two key ways:

(1) Given the incubation period and a lag in testing, new cases that are identified on a certain day are unlikely to have any relationship to policies implemented days earlier.

(2) “New cases” is a very misleading metric because it does not account for increases in testing. The rate of positive tests in Texas has declined significantly.

Mainstream outlets have attempted to tie new cases and deaths to recent re-opening actions in Florida, Georgia, and Texas, despite it being clear that any spike in cases or deaths would not be apparent for weeks after such policy changes. Such actions could lead to a spike in new cases, but trying to tie them to those seen right now is clearly incorrect.


https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-pandemic-media-outlets-mislead-readers-about-covid-19-data/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=top-bar-latest&utm_term=third


I don't have time or energy to de-bunk every false or misleading claim from the very biased source you've been quoting from lately. This obviously fits the narrative you'd like to believe and present. It's too bad it's not grounded in objective information and its practises are known to be suspect.

The assertion here of a lagging indicator is correct, of course, but the general assertion that ALL sources of "mainstream" journalism are mis-representing the situation and misleading readers/viewers into thinking that measures have not been effective is blatantly false and misleading itself.

This is a very good instance of using good information to persuade readers of a false or misleading premiss with only partial evidence (citing one article from the Hill, a small source itself, and one data chart from Axios, whatever that is, with a mention but no evidence from the NY Times).





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/10/2020 9:33:48 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7223
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 8:32:59 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Damn am I glad I took a few steps back for a while.

Watching you all take pot shots at each other is actually rather entertaining.

Well, time to wade back in.

A quick thrust at all you Eurosocialists damning the US for not implementing nation wide orders.....

So ALL of the European continent implemented the same imperial edict orders and followed them?

Many of our states are three times the size of many of your nations...........yet is is OK for your individual nations to go their own ways....but not for our states?

My what hypocrites you all are.
warspite1

If he read something (or even thought he read something – the facts of the matter weren’t that important to him) that he didn’t like and was written by a European, Osterhaut/Symon/JWE used to often refer to them as EuroNazis .

Well I guess Eurosocialists is a little less harsh (depending on one’s politics ), but why the ‘Eurosocialists’ appendage in any case? Do you have it on some clear authority that lockdown/limited lockdown/no lockdown is uniformly split along party lines? Splits and factions within various governing parties would suggest otherwise…..



You're presenting rational information to an emotional outburst intended to be as negatively received as possible. The fact that socialist is a blanket insult for Hans explains a lot.

It's also, again, breaking the rules and etiquette of this forum.

quote:



And why the need for a ‘quick thrust at Euro (socialist)’ peans at all given that what you are upset about has been stated by Americans too? Indeed one of the most vociferous on this subject I believe is an American. If you want to take exception to, and argue with, individuals then fine, but to try and label a set of people in such a way doesn’t help. Why do so many of these arguments come down to “my country is better than your country?” What are we 10-years old?



And even further, why not be able to join in criticism of one's own country? We have shown plenty of that here, as have other European, North American and Australian posters throughout this thread. Capt Beefheart has praised South Korea but also brought up some instances of poor choices along the way.

The entire point of free speech is to be able to offer critique with the hope of improvement. This is actually a positive, not a negative trait.

quote:



And I won’t ask why would there be an ‘imperial order’ for ‘ALL’ of the European continent (why, in your view, is it right the United States are treated as the United States but a Briton or a German or a Bulgarian or a Norwegian have to be treated as Europeans?). I assume you were just angry and didn’t mean to write something that actually makes no sense and you probably know the answer to.

A genuine question though:

Who (whether American, European or Eurosocialist (whatever that is)) has actually stated on here that the US states acting singularly is wrong, but German Lander (for example) doing the same thing is right? I assume there must be a lot, at least in the European bracket, because you’ve said “my what hypocrites you all are”.



My point that began most of this is that the Federal government could have assisted states by setting national social distancing guidelines earlier than they already did.


< Message edited by obvert -- 5/10/2020 8:33:57 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 7224
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 8:46:18 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Yes, it would have been smart. Because he is the chief executive of New York state and could have said "We need to do better than that!"


So the chief executive should make the "correct" choice (with super-duper future predictive powers obviously), against the advice of their expert staff. Interesting.


I see a trend here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-exclusive-admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country/ar-BB13IuyC?li=BBnb7Kz

The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen.

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.

The guidance contained detailed advice for making site-specific decisions related to reopening schools, restaurants, summer camps, churches, day care centers and other institutions. It had been widely shared within the CDC and included detailed “decision trees,” flow charts to be used by local officials to think through different scenarios.


Assuming States will be making their own decisions, how would this document not be helpful to them? Hmm.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/10/2020 9:27:53 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7225
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 9:01:35 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Some studies finding unintended positives in lockdowns.

Surprise. Less traffic. Less pollution. Fewer health problems related to pollution. Fewer deaths.

Also, Covid seems most severe in polluted areas according to studies in Europe of hotspots in high pollution zones. So the lockdowns could be reducing severity of Covid in this way as well as the other intended methods of reducing Ro and case numbers.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/30/clean-air-in-europe-during-lockdown-leads-to-11000-fewer-deaths

This is just for reductions in one month.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7226
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 9:16:17 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Although records are not currently available for all areas, a study in California indicated a serious reduction in road accidents and fatalities during the lockdowns.

Since road accidents account for a large number of deaths per year virtually everywhere, this may be leading to fewer fatalities everywhere there is a lockdown.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/smart-cities/490601-amid-coronavirus-lockdowns-traffic-accidents-in
Prior to the stay-at-home orders, researchers estimate that there were approximately 1,000 collision incidents and 400 injury and fatal accidents per day on highways across California, per data from the university’s real-time California Highway Incident Processing System (CHIPS).

With stay-at-home orders now in place, researchers at UCD now see approximately 500 collisions and 200 injuries or fatal incidents.


Since there are approximately 1.25 million road deaths worldwide every year, this could have significantly more impact than the rise in suicides, which account for almost 800k deaths worldwide every year (figures from WHO records.

This year suicides are tracking just about average worldwide, with around 380k now and ~800k expected for the year. Suicides also peak in the spring and early summer and drop off in late summer and through the winter.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7227
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 9:37:46 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
Apologies to Warspite1, and any other nonsocialst bent Europeans, for unintentionally lumping you in with Obvert and mindmessing.

"All of you Eurosocialists" is not a statement meant to be applied in a blanket manner to all Europeans, just all European socialists.

They know who they are.

I believe it was mm who first threw out a self imposed slur of ALL Europeans by referring to you as Eurotrash.

I'm rapidly reaching the limit of my tolerance for Obvert's constant "holier than thou" claims that those who present opposing viewpoints are dong so purely out of emotion, when no one in this thread has evidenced MORE emotion than he.

You seriously need to come down from your self proclaimed 'higher ground".

Your posts are purely driven by the emotion of paranoia. It is evident in EVERYTHING you post.

We all recognize how scared to death you are of returning to work when you see every child as a little germ factory.



< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/10/2020 10:18:33 AM >


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7228
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 9:44:11 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
Yes, we should all stay locked down in our homes forever so we can reduce pollution and deaths from auto accidents.

Hey, how's about imposing an order than no one is ever allowed to cross a street again so no one will ever be hit by an automobile?

One can only shake one's head at the lunacy......

The most sure solution for eliminating the risks of life is choosing death.

A very appealing solution indeed......


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 7229
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/10/2020 9:59:09 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3076
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Actually, it is the state's job. The state's and the local government's job is to protect its citizens from illness, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and many other dangers.

As far as bleach in the blood, I am sure that I have had that

Too bad for me. I can't take bleach for Covid because I'm already taking Windex for Windmill cancer

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7230
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