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RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 6:30:27 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Second-trimester miscarriage attributed to a coronavirus infection of placenta
May 1 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/01/second-trimester-miscarriage-attributed-to-a-coronavirus-infection-of-placenta.html


"Reports of newborns with fetal distress and stillbirth after maternal contraction of the virus during the third trimester suggest that there may be a Covid-19 induced placental infection."

"The report from JAMA also noted that infection of the maternal side of the placenta resulting in miscarriage or impediment of fetal growth was observed in 40% of cases of pregnant patients with MERS and SARS."


"A second-trimester miscarriage in a Covid-19 patient was attributed to a placental infection of the virus, according to new research, as some obstetricians notice an uptick in still births since the coronavirus pandemic hit the U.S."

_____________________________


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(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 6691
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 6:31:03 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Animated Graphic: Coronavirus Infections Day By Day


May 05, 2020


https://www.rferl.org/a/day-by-day-how-the-coronavirus-spread/30552844.html


"Note: This chart shows the spread of the virus as monitored by Johns Hopkins University and the WHO."


_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6692
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 6:59:37 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4129
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Obvert is right! Everyone stop defending themselves.

Cases ramping up in Orange County, Calif. My wife's hospital just doubled their COVID ICU size with the help of FEMA.

My colleague admitted a patient with Kawasaki's Disease two days ago. High fever, conjunctivitis. COVID PCR negative but IGG antibody POSITIVE. The toddler had a bad case of coronary aneurysms (a serious complication of KD). Children's Hospital reporting a surge in KD patients (an uncommon condition).

Perhaps this is a post-infectious complication of COVID?


My middle boy had KD last year - I wouldn't wish it on anyone. He didn't respond to the IVIG - that was what was so scary.

We're seeing a lot of articles trying to link the two together or tie them together somehow. Not sure, but they could be.

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 6693
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 7:24:14 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Two months. It seems a long time ago when we were surprised by an increase in cases in Italy. It's interesting to note now that it is being found that the virus was already moving through the population in NY in January, it was in France in December, and it is likely it was in many other places during January.

To see this over time is surprising to me since it hasn't been long at all.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 6694
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 7:29:53 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
I believe some one asked for examples:

A commentary on the liberal bias of multi-country high tech communications platforms.

Dare we refer to them as 'media'?

Bokhari: Tech Censorship Is Now a Public Health Hazard

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/05/bokhari-tech-censorship-is-now-a-public-health-hazard/

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 6695
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 7:33:55 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Human behavior is actually SELECTING strains with higher infectivity. As we move apart from each other we give an evolutionary advantage to strains that fly through the air, smell humans and use GPS navigation.



If as mentioned in the recent study posted by Alfred, this seems like a good thing right?

Since higher infectivity is also lessening severity?

So maybe an argument that the lockdowns have created an unintended positive outcome?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

This is a prepublication paper which will be of most interest to Cap Mandrake and Chickenboy:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1.full.pdf

For the layman probably the chief point of interest from the paper is the view that the initial Wuhan spike protein D614G has mutated largely to G614 which is found in Europe and North America.  The significance of which is that the mutation seems to be more "contagious" but less "severe".  One conclusion which results is that the increased number of European and North American infections is not due to policy responses but simply is the logical outcome of the mutation.

Alfred


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 6696
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 7:39:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21098
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I'd never heard of KD before Cap and you mentioned it. Thus prompted, I looked it up. I see that it's treatable; I read your note that your boy didn't respond to the (usual?) treatment. Did he recover fully (that seems likely, else you'd probably have mentioned it)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Obvert is right! Everyone stop defending themselves.

Cases ramping up in Orange County, Calif. My wife's hospital just doubled their COVID ICU size with the help of FEMA.

My colleague admitted a patient with Kawasaki's Disease two days ago. High fever, conjunctivitis. COVID PCR negative but IGG antibody POSITIVE. The toddler had a bad case of coronary aneurysms (a serious complication of KD). Children's Hospital reporting a surge in KD patients (an uncommon condition).

Perhaps this is a post-infectious complication of COVID?


My middle boy had KD last year - I wouldn't wish it on anyone. He didn't respond to the IVIG - that was what was so scary.

We're seeing a lot of articles trying to link the two together or tie them together somehow. Not sure, but they could be.


(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 6697
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 7:45:58 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'd never heard of KD before Cap and you mentioned it. Thus prompted, I looked it up. I see that it's treatable; I read your note that your boy didn't respond to the (usual?) treatment. Did he recover fully (that seems likely, else you'd probably have mentioned it)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Obvert is right! Everyone stop defending themselves.

Cases ramping up in Orange County, Calif. My wife's hospital just doubled their COVID ICU size with the help of FEMA.

My colleague admitted a patient with Kawasaki's Disease two days ago. High fever, conjunctivitis. COVID PCR negative but IGG antibody POSITIVE. The toddler had a bad case of coronary aneurysms (a serious complication of KD). Children's Hospital reporting a surge in KD patients (an uncommon condition).

Perhaps this is a post-infectious complication of COVID?


My middle boy had KD last year - I wouldn't wish it on anyone. He didn't respond to the IVIG - that was what was so scary.

We're seeing a lot of articles trying to link the two together or tie them together somehow. Not sure, but they could be.





All the Great Google in the Sky gave me on a KD search was Kevin Durant.

I still don't have a clue what KD is.....

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 6698
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 7:50:04 PM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4788
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: online
You have to search for Kawasaki's Disease

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/kawasaki-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20354598

_____________________________


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6699
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:05:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16147
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Two months. It seems a long time ago when we were surprised by an increase in cases in Italy. It's interesting to note now that it is being found that the virus was already moving through the population in NY in January, it was in France in December, and it is likely it was in many other places during January.

To see this over time is surprising to me since it hasn't been long at all.




These charts challenge the notions that the US handled the pandemic well.
- it just edges out Italy (60.36 million pop.) in percentage of cases divided by population
- the US cases figure is likely much lower than it should be because testing has been so minimal
- the US had more time to prepare as it saw what was happening in Europe
- the three US states that had their peak of infections are declining in their new ones, but the other states in aggregate are rising in new cases per day (from a news report yesterday), using CDC figures
- the health care system in the US does not seem to have fared any better than other developed countries at handling the outbreak. The patchwork of distancing directives (or not) is part of the health care system when it comes to public health measures.

While I applaud the optimism that we will all beat this thing (with some losses and disablements) eventually, I stand on the cautious side that says lets open the door slowly and see what awaits us as we move out. I am concerned that those states/provinces that move too quickly/confidently do not have good plans to slam the door again and in the meantime, could affect their neighbours.

Just trying to be realistic about the situation as I see it.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 6700
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:14:43 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I believe some one asked for examples:

A commentary on the liberal bias of multi-country high tech communications platforms.

Dare we refer to them as 'media'?

Bokhari: Tech Censorship Is Now a Public Health Hazard

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/05/bokhari-tech-censorship-is-now-a-public-health-hazard/


In a quick skim I noticed this:

The censorship of AYTU is just one example of Silicon Valley’s coronavirus overreach. YouTube has also censored a video of two doctors in Bakersfield, California, who recommended an early end to the nationwide shutdowns.

Interesting there is no context from Breitbart to support a positive or negative context to why this may have been shutdown by youtube.

This had been part of our thread earlier. I don't have time to go through every one of the many assertions in this article, but not offering context on this one is a serious omission and shows a lack of journalistic integrity since many experts and several official medical groups have condemned their approach and findings.

They dressed in scrubs. They sounded scientific. And last week’s message from two Bakersfield doctors was exactly what many stuck-at-home Americans wanted to hear: COVID-19 is no worse than influenza, its death rates are low and we should all go back to work and school.

Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, co-owners of Accelerated Urgent Care, which offers Bakersfield’s only private walk-in COVID-19 testing site, held a press conference on April 22 to report their conclusions about COVID-19 test results. During the conference, broadcast on YouTube, the doctors said that 12% of Californians tested so far have been infected. Extrapolating that to the general population, they estimated that as many as 5 million Californians have likely contracted the virus. They then used the total number of COVID-19 deaths statewide (roughly 1,200, as of last week) to calculate a death rate of just 0.03% — similar to the average death rate from seasonal flu.

Public health experts were quick to point out the major flaws in the doctors’ methodology – namely that only a tiny percentage of Californians have actually been tested, a group that is more likely to test positive and is not representative of the larger population.

But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing.

The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population, said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court.” And most credible studies of COVID-19 death rates are far higher than the ones the doctors presented.

“They’ve used methods that are ludicrous to get results that are completely implausible,” Bergstrom said.

Still, the early media coverage of the doctors’ announcement went viral (digitally, that is) over the weekend. The press conference video garnered more than 5 million views before YouTube removed it on Monday for violating community guidelines.


Youtube's statement on the removal:

“We quickly remove flagged content that violate our Community Guidelines, including content that explicitly disputes the efficacy of local healthy authority recommended guidance on social distancing that may lead others to act against that guidance," said the statement. "However, content that provides sufficient educational, documentary, scientific or artistic (EDSA) context is allowed -- for example, news coverage of this interview with additional context. From the very beginning of the pandemic, we’ve had clear policies against COVID-19 misinformation and are committed to continue providing timely and helpful information at this critical time.”

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/5/2020 8:17:53 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6701
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:20:31 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'd never heard of KD before Cap and you mentioned it. Thus prompted, I looked it up. I see that it's treatable; I read your note that your boy didn't respond to the (usual?) treatment. Did he recover fully (that seems likely, else you'd probably have mentioned it)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Obvert is right! Everyone stop defending themselves.

Cases ramping up in Orange County, Calif. My wife's hospital just doubled their COVID ICU size with the help of FEMA.

My colleague admitted a patient with Kawasaki's Disease two days ago. High fever, conjunctivitis. COVID PCR negative but IGG antibody POSITIVE. The toddler had a bad case of coronary aneurysms (a serious complication of KD). Children's Hospital reporting a surge in KD patients (an uncommon condition).

Perhaps this is a post-infectious complication of COVID?


My middle boy had KD last year - I wouldn't wish it on anyone. He didn't respond to the IVIG - that was what was so scary.

We're seeing a lot of articles trying to link the two together or tie them together somehow. Not sure, but they could be.





All the Great Google in the Sky gave me on a KD search was Kevin Durant.

I still don't have a clue what KD is.....


Kawasaki's Disease

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6702
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:20:32 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I believe some one asked for examples:

A commentary on the liberal bias of multi-country high tech communications platforms.

Dare we refer to them as 'media'?

Bokhari: Tech Censorship Is Now a Public Health Hazard

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/05/bokhari-tech-censorship-is-now-a-public-health-hazard/


In a quick skim I noticed this:

The censorship of AYTU is just one example of Silicon Valley’s coronavirus overreach. YouTube has also censored a video of two doctors in Bakersfield, California, who recommended an early end to the nationwide shutdowns.

Interesting there is no context from Breitbart to support a positive or negative context to why this may have been shutdown by youtube.

This had been part of our thread earlier. I don't have time to go through every one of the many assertions in this article, but not offering context on this one is a serious omission and shows a lack of journalistic integrity since many experts and several official medical groups have condemned their approach and findings.

They dressed in scrubs. They sounded scientific. And last week’s message from two Bakersfield doctors was exactly what many stuck-at-home Americans wanted to hear: COVID-19 is no worse than influenza, its death rates are low and we should all go back to work and school.

Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, co-owners of Accelerated Urgent Care, which offers Bakersfield’s only private walk-in COVID-19 testing site, held a press conference on April 22 to report their conclusions about COVID-19 test results. During the conference, broadcast on YouTube, the doctors said that 12% of Californians tested so far have been infected. Extrapolating that to the general population, they estimated that as many as 5 million Californians have likely contracted the virus. They then used the total number of COVID-19 deaths statewide (roughly 1,200, as of last week) to calculate a death rate of just 0.03% — similar to the average death rate from seasonal flu.

Public health experts were quick to point out the major flaws in the doctors’ methodology – namely that only a tiny percentage of Californians have actually been tested, a group that is more likely to test positive and is not representative of the larger population.

But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing.

The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population, said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court.” And most credible studies of COVID-19 death rates are far higher than the ones the doctors presented.

“They’ve used methods that are ludicrous to get results that are completely implausible,” Bergstrom said.

Still, the early media coverage of the doctors’ announcement went viral (digitally, that is) over the weekend. The press conference video garnered more than 5 million views before YouTube removed it on Monday for violating community guidelines.


Youtube's statement on the removal:

“We quickly remove flagged content that violate our Community Guidelines, including content that explicitly disputes the efficacy of local healthy authority recommended guidance on social distancing that may lead others to act against that guidance," said the statement. "However, content that provides sufficient educational, documentary, scientific or artistic (EDSA) context is allowed -- for example, news coverage of this interview with additional context. From the very beginning of the pandemic, we’ve had clear policies against COVID-19 misinformation and are committed to continue providing timely and helpful information at this critical time.”



Instead of addressing the manner in which Big Tech are silencing voices of dissent, you micro focus on a health study as a means of avoiding the point.

You sir are an expert at deflection.

My hat is off to you.



_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 6703
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:27:48 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21098
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I'm not yet sure about that, BBfanboy. Each measure (cases, testing, mortality) is subject to uncertainties/issues, but mortality is probably a better measure than confirmed cases. To this point, a number of European countries have significantly higher mortality rates (2x to 4x). Contrary to the news report you allude to, new cases and mortality are level or dropping in the US and in many states. That might change, and according to IHME it will, but until it does, the situation in the US isn't as severe as Italy, Spain, France, UK, Belgium, and Netherlands, among others.

Re: your assertion that the US health care system hasn't fared any better, that isn't the case either. The US has had roughly the same number of cases/million as Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, Ireland, and a good bit more than UK and France, yet significantly lower mortality/million than those countries. By that measure, the medical system has handled its case load comparatively well.

We don't know how things will turn out in the end, but to this point the US has done comparatively well.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 6704
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:31:52 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4129
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'd never heard of KD before Cap and you mentioned it. Thus prompted, I looked it up. I see that it's treatable; I read your note that your boy didn't respond to the (usual?) treatment. Did he recover fully (that seems likely, else you'd probably have mentioned it)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Obvert is right! Everyone stop defending themselves.

Cases ramping up in Orange County, Calif. My wife's hospital just doubled their COVID ICU size with the help of FEMA.

My colleague admitted a patient with Kawasaki's Disease two days ago. High fever, conjunctivitis. COVID PCR negative but IGG antibody POSITIVE. The toddler had a bad case of coronary aneurysms (a serious complication of KD). Children's Hospital reporting a surge in KD patients (an uncommon condition).

Perhaps this is a post-infectious complication of COVID?


My middle boy had KD last year - I wouldn't wish it on anyone. He didn't respond to the IVIG - that was what was so scary.

We're seeing a lot of articles trying to link the two together or tie them together somehow. Not sure, but they could be.





Hard to say on fully - I don't think we'll ever fully know.

We hear horror stories of healthy 20 and 30 year olds dying of heart disease/heart attacks that had KD when they were kids, and appeared as healthy as the next guy...

We've also heard of people being fine.

He has heart damage, no doubt. He runs around and plays just as hard as his buddies, and doesn't complain about shortness of breath etc or aches...

He has some issues with his heart that I can't spell/explain but I know what they are. He did not have them before he had KD.

I am not a doctor, but I think you will hear about kids getting this more and more. We're following the information that has come out about Covid/KD possible link. My wife follows this a lot more than I do.

Once we had it, went through it etc. a handful of friends told us they've gone through it.

He eventually accepted the IVIG, but they had to put it in in a different spot than the IV in his wrist. His blood pressure tanked and almost didn't recover, so they stopped the first round entirely, which allowed his pressure to recover.

I am not surprised you haven't heard about it Dan - most people haven't. It is an illness that causes inflammation in the blood vessels in the body. First signs are fever that will not break. He had 104 temp for 5 straight days.

I am very dissapointed in our hospital in town. They did not take us serious for a couple of days before we finally went to our pediatrician 2 hours away, who immediate sent us to the PICU in Wichita with a heart specialist. The biggest issue the entire time was protecting his heart, which to this day our hospital in town damaged by not taking us serious enough in my opinion. The couple extra days of waiting hurt it I truly believe. Their tongue also turns and looks just like a strawberry - google it. The medical grad kid "observing" that day noticed that and mentioned it was different than what he had seen - but the head ER doc brushed him off because he was a kid and said it was tell tale hand foot mouth

All joking aside, I remember googling what the hell was wrong with him and couldn't figure it out. All his symptoms lined up with Boubonic Plague before we went to the PICU.

The hardest part of the whole thing was sitting with him not know what was happening until we got to the PICU. Most of the nurses at the PICU were very familiar with KD it seemed like.

Him not reacting to the treatment, and doing the opposite was scary. Seeing the defibs ready for your 6 year old child and look of uncertainty on nurses faces isn't exactly reassuring.

Anyway - I am rambling.

To answer you question, Dan. He seems normal now and runs around just fine - it seems like later on in life he could pass on on to his children, and maybe not have the life expectancy of someone else who doesn't have it - I just don't know because I don't know how much damage his heart took, but I do know it took some.

KD is treatable, you usually don't die from it, but it is heart disease in children... Our biggest issue was we almost lost him during treatment because of the blood pressure drop. This was also a handful of months to the day after my wife sat in KC with her mom as she didn't make it from a liver/kidney transplant operation and she was reliving that all over again... the tubes/noises/nurses/doctors/smells etc... she's a pretty strong lady, but it ****ed her up pretty good for a while mentally. She's a lot tougher than I am. It sure has changed my perspective on what is important in life and what isn't. I will admit that. Thank you for asking about it.

I've witnessed cancer, parkinsons, failed surgeries.. etc etc.. but man anything that involves children - sucks. Pure and simple and it's just not fair. There isn't any other way to put it.

Cap can probably tell you more about it than I can - I just know it was awful to go through it, but looking back he was probably going to make it the entire time, but we did dodge a bullet with the blood pressure drop, because my wife told them to stop just to let his body rest and take a breather, or he probably wouldn't of made it.

Sorry for the long rambling post





< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 5/5/2020 8:36:53 PM >


_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 6705
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:32:44 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16147
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I believe some one asked for examples:

A commentary on the liberal bias of multi-country high tech communications platforms.

Dare we refer to them as 'media'?

Bokhari: Tech Censorship Is Now a Public Health Hazard

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/05/bokhari-tech-censorship-is-now-a-public-health-hazard/


In a quick skim I noticed this:

The censorship of AYTU is just one example of Silicon Valley’s coronavirus overreach. YouTube has also censored a video of two doctors in Bakersfield, California, who recommended an early end to the nationwide shutdowns.

Interesting there is no context from Breitbart to support a positive or negative context to why this may have been shutdown by youtube.

This had been part of our thread earlier. I don't have time to go through every one of the many assertions in this article, but not offering context on this one is a serious omission and shows a lack of journalistic integrity since many experts and several official medical groups have condemned their approach and findings.

They dressed in scrubs. They sounded scientific. And last week’s message from two Bakersfield doctors was exactly what many stuck-at-home Americans wanted to hear: COVID-19 is no worse than influenza, its death rates are low and we should all go back to work and school.

Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, co-owners of Accelerated Urgent Care, which offers Bakersfield’s only private walk-in COVID-19 testing site, held a press conference on April 22 to report their conclusions about COVID-19 test results. During the conference, broadcast on YouTube, the doctors said that 12% of Californians tested so far have been infected. Extrapolating that to the general population, they estimated that as many as 5 million Californians have likely contracted the virus. They then used the total number of COVID-19 deaths statewide (roughly 1,200, as of last week) to calculate a death rate of just 0.03% — similar to the average death rate from seasonal flu.

Public health experts were quick to point out the major flaws in the doctors’ methodology – namely that only a tiny percentage of Californians have actually been tested, a group that is more likely to test positive and is not representative of the larger population.

But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing.

The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population, said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court.” And most credible studies of COVID-19 death rates are far higher than the ones the doctors presented.

“They’ve used methods that are ludicrous to get results that are completely implausible,” Bergstrom said.

Still, the early media coverage of the doctors’ announcement went viral (digitally, that is) over the weekend. The press conference video garnered more than 5 million views before YouTube removed it on Monday for violating community guidelines.


Youtube's statement on the removal:

“We quickly remove flagged content that violate our Community Guidelines, including content that explicitly disputes the efficacy of local healthy authority recommended guidance on social distancing that may lead others to act against that guidance," said the statement. "However, content that provides sufficient educational, documentary, scientific or artistic (EDSA) context is allowed -- for example, news coverage of this interview with additional context. From the very beginning of the pandemic, we’ve had clear policies against COVID-19 misinformation and are committed to continue providing timely and helpful information at this critical time.”



Instead of addressing the manner in which Big Tech are silencing voices of dissent, you micro focus on a health study as a means of avoiding the point.

You sir are an expert at deflection.

My hat is off to you.


In the last year or so there has been rising public demand that big tech companies stop allowing misleading or dangerous information on their platforms. They didn't create it, but when it became apparent that the info was often harmful to some people, the tech companies were expected to remove it.

The health study provides the context under which YouTube removed information that appears to be misleading and potentially harmful if large numbers of people believe the original assertions of those doctors are true.

The fact that those doctors appear to be in a position to benefit from opening up the lockdown by having increased testing of workers is another indicator that their claims should be taken with lots of skepticism.

So given the context of ALL the information, should YouTube be criticized or applauded for removing the video? There will likely be supporters on both sides but YouTube is in a no-win situation no matter whether it did something or nothing.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6706
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:39:54 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21098
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Yuck. Very hard to hold a child and not know how serious something is. To talk to the doctor and him tell you, "We just don't know." I was there with my daughter when she was 12, so I think I know how you feel. Glad your boy is doing fine and running around with his friends. Post a photo when he's the mascot at K-State or getting married, one of these days. (My wife was stout too.)

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 6707
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:40:20 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4129
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
So given the context of ALL the information, should YouTube be criticized or applauded for removing the video? There will likely be supporters on both sides but YouTube is in a no-win situation no matter whether it did something or nothing.


I have kids - I hate youtube with a passion


_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 6708
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:40:32 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Two months. It seems a long time ago when we were surprised by an increase in cases in Italy. It's interesting to note now that it is being found that the virus was already moving through the population in NY in January, it was in France in December, and it is likely it was in many other places during January.

To see this over time is surprising to me since it hasn't been long at all.




These charts challenge the notions that the US handled the pandemic well.
- it just edges out Italy (60.36 million pop.) in percentage of cases divided by population
- the US cases figure is likely much lower than it should be because testing has been so minimal
- the US had more time to prepare as it saw what was happening in Europe
- the three US states that had their peak of infections are declining in their new ones, but the other states in aggregate are rising in new cases per day (from a news report yesterday), using CDC figures
- the health care system in the US does not seem to have fared any better than other developed countries at handling the outbreak. The patchwork of distancing directives (or not) is part of the health care system when it comes to public health measures.

While I applaud the optimism that we will all beat this thing (with some losses and disablements) eventually, I stand on the cautious side that says lets open the door slowly and see what awaits us as we move out. I am concerned that those states/provinces that move too quickly/confidently do not have good plans to slam the door again and in the meantime, could affect their neighbours.

Just trying to be realistic about the situation as I see it.



The first known case in the US was Jan 20. It was likely spreading in several locations before that. Testing is great now, the highest in the World, but it began so slowly that if we see the growth in other areas in each two week period, we can extrapolate what was likely happening in any place where testing was low and there were no case tracking or social distancing measures in place.

South Korea had their first known case within days of the US (Jan 21?). They slammed it back and held it down within about a month.

We have no idea at this point what the next year may hold. A greater number of infections could lead to more immunity next winter and an easier time keeping the Ro low. A vaccine could be developed, effective treatments to limit severe cases worked out, and new strains could be more contagious and less severe.

I hope most countries are careful in this middle phase after the first lockdowns and ease measures slowly.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 6709
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:43:10 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4129
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yuck. Very hard to hold a child and not know how serious something is. To talk to the doctor and him tell you, "We just don't know." I was there with my daughter when she was 12, so I think I know how you feel. Glad your boy is doing fine and running around with his friends. Post a photo when he's the mascot at K-State or getting married, one of these days. (My wife was stout too.)


Will do - I appreciate that.



_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 6710
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:48:51 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I believe some one asked for examples:

A commentary on the liberal bias of multi-country high tech communications platforms.

Dare we refer to them as 'media'?

Bokhari: Tech Censorship Is Now a Public Health Hazard

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/05/bokhari-tech-censorship-is-now-a-public-health-hazard/


In a quick skim I noticed this:

The censorship of AYTU is just one example of Silicon Valley’s coronavirus overreach. YouTube has also censored a video of two doctors in Bakersfield, California, who recommended an early end to the nationwide shutdowns.

Interesting there is no context from Breitbart to support a positive or negative context to why this may have been shutdown by youtube.

This had been part of our thread earlier. I don't have time to go through every one of the many assertions in this article, but not offering context on this one is a serious omission and shows a lack of journalistic integrity since many experts and several official medical groups have condemned their approach and findings.

They dressed in scrubs. They sounded scientific. And last week’s message from two Bakersfield doctors was exactly what many stuck-at-home Americans wanted to hear: COVID-19 is no worse than influenza, its death rates are low and we should all go back to work and school.

Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, co-owners of Accelerated Urgent Care, which offers Bakersfield’s only private walk-in COVID-19 testing site, held a press conference on April 22 to report their conclusions about COVID-19 test results. During the conference, broadcast on YouTube, the doctors said that 12% of Californians tested so far have been infected. Extrapolating that to the general population, they estimated that as many as 5 million Californians have likely contracted the virus. They then used the total number of COVID-19 deaths statewide (roughly 1,200, as of last week) to calculate a death rate of just 0.03% — similar to the average death rate from seasonal flu.

Public health experts were quick to point out the major flaws in the doctors’ methodology – namely that only a tiny percentage of Californians have actually been tested, a group that is more likely to test positive and is not representative of the larger population.

But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing.

The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population, said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court.” And most credible studies of COVID-19 death rates are far higher than the ones the doctors presented.

“They’ve used methods that are ludicrous to get results that are completely implausible,” Bergstrom said.

Still, the early media coverage of the doctors’ announcement went viral (digitally, that is) over the weekend. The press conference video garnered more than 5 million views before YouTube removed it on Monday for violating community guidelines.


Youtube's statement on the removal:

“We quickly remove flagged content that violate our Community Guidelines, including content that explicitly disputes the efficacy of local healthy authority recommended guidance on social distancing that may lead others to act against that guidance," said the statement. "However, content that provides sufficient educational, documentary, scientific or artistic (EDSA) context is allowed -- for example, news coverage of this interview with additional context. From the very beginning of the pandemic, we’ve had clear policies against COVID-19 misinformation and are committed to continue providing timely and helpful information at this critical time.”



Instead of addressing the manner in which Big Tech are silencing voices of dissent, you micro focus on a health study as a means of avoiding the point.

You sir are an expert at deflection.

My hat is off to you.




Well, actually the very premiss that "Big Tech are silencing voices of dissent" becomes suspect if reporting lacks context and integrity. That is the point of my long post which was actually quite directly to the point.

It also included the youtube statement about this case which Breitbart didn't think it useful to include for any of these removals. I can only surmise this would have created more doubt or nuance about their assertions in this article regarding why these videos were taken down. .



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6711
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 8:54:20 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

I've witnessed cancer, parkinsons, failed surgeries.. etc etc.. but man anything that involves children - sucks. Pure and simple and it's just not fair. There isn't any other way to put it.

Cap can probably tell you more about it than I can - I just know it was awful to go through it, but looking back he was probably going to make it the entire time, but we did dodge a bullet with the blood pressure drop, because my wife told them to stop just to let his body rest and take a breather, or he probably wouldn't of made it.

Sorry for the long rambling post




Thanks for this. It is hard to hear, but so real and a lot of us have been through something with kids, if not this severe, at least quite scary. We have a friend who's daughter had a heart problem at birth. So tough to go through for them and we were with them the whole way. it's not fair, it hurts, there is no other way to put it.

So hard to hear being a parent, but glad he's come through that critical part. Fingers crossed.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/5/2020 8:55:55 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 6712
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:04:51 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3023
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways .

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.


HEED MY WORDS! DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO




Seems that it's a nation wide problem in that regard...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-adviser-prof-neil-ferguson-resigns-after-breaking-lockdown-rules

"Prof Neil Ferguson, the epidemiologist whose modelling helped shape Britain’s coronavirus lockdown strategy, has quit as a government adviser after flouting the rules by receiving visits from his lover at his home."

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6713
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:10:35 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

HEED MY WORDS! DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO


Seems that it's a nation wide problem in that regard...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-adviser-prof-neil-ferguson-resigns-after-breaking-lockdown-rules

"Prof Neil Ferguson, the epidemiologist whose modelling helped shape Britain’s coronavirus lockdown strategy, has quit as a government adviser after flouting the rules by receiving visits from his lover at his home."


I find this one a bit ridiculous. Neil Ferguson already had Covid and recovered quite some time ago. Even based on studies that show people shed the virus up to eight days after symptoms stop he is weeks beyond that. The hubub is about his partner, who does not live with him, visited him twice. Recommendations in the UK also state we can go out once a day for exercise. This seems very petty compared to the Scottish minister deciding she needed to vacation in her second home.

Let him do his work. Although it sounds like he'll keep doing it anyway and not having to go sit in on SAGE probably won't be such a bad thing.

His colleague Christl Donnelly told the Guardian earlier this year: “He works harder than anyone I have ever met. He is simultaneously attending very large numbers of meetings while running the group from an organisational point of view and doing programming himself. Any one of those things could take somebody their full time.

“One of his friends said he should slow down – this is a marathon not a sprint. He said he is going to do the marathon at sprint speed. It is not just work ethic – it is also energy. He seems to be able to keep going. He must sleep a bit, but I think not much.”


< Message edited by obvert -- 5/5/2020 9:16:37 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 6714
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:15:25 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3023
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways .

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.


HEED MY WORDS! DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO


Seems that it's a nation wide problem in that regard...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-adviser-prof-neil-ferguson-resigns-after-breaking-lockdown-rules

"Prof Neil Ferguson, the epidemiologist whose modelling helped shape Britain’s coronavirus lockdown strategy, has quit as a government adviser after flouting the rules by receiving visits from his lover at his home."


I find this one a bit ridiculous. Neil Ferguson already had Covid and recovered quite some time ago. Even based on studies that show people shed the virus up to eight days after symptoms stop he is weeks beyond that.

Let him do his work.


I'm inclined to agree, but if it's compliance to distancing measures that is desired, then it helps if those that set the measures also comply. Otherwise it's hard to defend.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 6715
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:22:51 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 20421
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Media Attack Gov. Kristi Noem For Not Panicking And Destroying Her State

https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/05/media-attack-gov-kristi-noem-for-not-panicking-and-destroying-her-state/


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6716
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:47:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21098
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Thanks for the post, Lowpe. That's a terrific story.

Those favorably disposed to the media in the US might be able to put themselves in the shoes of somebody like the South Dakota governor. If there is media bias, as some of us feel, it can be extraordinarily difficult to "swim against the current." The media is incredibly powerful. If it sheds a negative spotlight on a national or state figure, it can ruin that person. As one person put it, "Never get in a fight with those who buy their ink by the barrel.

That doesn't mean the media isn't justified in shining spotlights, but it does mean that IF there is media bias it can have a real and dramatic impact.

President Trump (who I did not vote for, for the record) is an unusual critter. For good and for bad, he doesn't wither under the spotlight. He and the media are at war. Every person here will think it's either justified or not for one side or the other, but the fact that he's able to stand up to the concerted attacks of the media, year after year, and not only survive but succeed is just amazing. One reason for his success, IMO, is that many rural, semi-rural, and small town Americans detest the smugness that Democrat strategist James Carville was referring to (see post a few hours ago) - they did not react kindly to Candidate Clinton referring to some Americans as "deplorables." Nor to the way the press handled situations like the Kentucky student wearing the MAGA hat, wrongfully accused of racism.

The coronavirus will affect the next election, in all likelihood. If the states easing countermeasures (mostly Republican states) end up with big spikes, those governors will be hammered by opponents and media. Heck, that's been the case all along anyway. On the flip side, if easing works, then states where protests are occurring (Michigan, etc.) that are usually but not always Blue states may flip Red. There's a lot of irritation or anger, at least in non-urban areas.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6717
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:48:55 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 20421
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Dallas salon owner ordered to spend a week in jail for keeping salon open

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2020/05/05/dallas-salon-owner-ordered-to-spend-a-week-in-jail-for-keeping-salon-open/

and then there is this (an earlier story):

Officials release 1,000 inmates to ease crowding, slow spread of COVID-19 at Dallas County jail

https://www.fox4news.com/news/officials-release-1000-inmates-to-ease-crowding-slow-spread-of-covid-19-at-dallas-county-jail

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6718
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 9:50:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21098
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
So we release prisoners due to danger of catching virus in jail, but jail people for protesting countermeasures. Presumably they'll be released to.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6719
RE: OT: Corona virus - 5/5/2020 10:15:16 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 20421
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
More Pennsylvania news:

https://archive.is/3SkVa (Pittsburgh Action News)

Pitt researcher studying coronavirus killed in suspected murder-suicide in Ross Township

"Bing was on the verge of making very significant findings toward understanding the cellular mechanisms that underlie SARS-CoV-2 infection and the cellular basis of the following complications," the department said in a written statement.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 6720
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