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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:27:19 AM   
MakeeLearn


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CDC director tries to walk back remarks on coronavirus
04/22/20 06:40 PM EDT

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494224-cdc-director-tries-to-walk-back-remarks-on-coronavirus


"Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield on Wednesday tried to temper remarks he made about the threat of a second wave of the novel coronavirus, saying the thrust of his comments was meant to urge Americans to embrace the vaccine for the flu.

“I didn’t say that this was going to be worse. I said it was going to be more difficult and potentially more complicated because we would have flu and coronavirus circulating at the same time,” Redfield said at the top of a White House briefing Wednesday evening."

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Post #: 5521
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:34:10 AM   
MakeeLearn


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All the CoVid19 cases in my county have recovered. No deaths from CoVid19.

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Post #: 5522
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:39:42 AM   
Zorch

 

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There seems to be no pattern to where humans pick up new viruses https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/there-seems-to-be-no-pattern-to-where-humans-pick-up-new-viruses/

No groups of species appear to be especially likely to transfer viruses to humans.

A virus that normally infects animals makes the jump to humans, whose immune systems have never seen it before. It suddenly sweeps across the globe, leaving death and chaos in its wake. We're living with that reality now and have gone through it previously with HIV, SARS, MERS, Ebola, Hanta, and various flu viruses that have threatened humanity in just the past few decades.

While there are many organizations that try to stay on top of threats of emerging diseases, it would be helpful if we could identify major sources of potential threats. If, for example, we knew that certain species were more prone to carrying viruses that could make the jump to humans, we could potentially survey the viruses found in those species, identify major threats, and potentially even develop therapies or vaccines in advance.

But a study published recently in PNAS suggests there's no real pattern to where humans are picking up new viruses. Instead, groups with lots of species tend to have lots of viral species, and those make the jump to humans largely in proportion to the number of species.

Zoonotic risk
A disease that can be transmitted from animals to people is technically called "zoonotic." While there are a variety of diseases that incorporate time in another species as part of their lifestyle—malaria is a classic example—the risk we're concerned about is a virus that normally circulates within a non-human species but evolves the ability to spread within humans and leaves its original host behind.

These sorts of events are relatively common. Flu viruses seem to hop among us and our agricultural species with some regularity. Other viruses, like members of the hantavirus family, seem to frequently make the jump to humans without ever establishing the ability to spread from human to human.

It's the latter feature that creates the risk of a global pandemic. Two earlier coronaviruses, SARS-CoV-1 and MERS, didn't spread among humans as effectively as SARS-CoV-2, allowing containment methods to halt their spread before a pandemic could develop.

Are there any species that might be especially good launch pads for a pandemic? A couple of hypotheses suggests this could be the case. One hypothesis is that evolutionary distance matters. A virus that normally circulates in a species that's related to humans is more likely to have components that can interact more effectively with the proteins that are present in human cells. If this were the case, we'd probably expect to see more zoonotic jumps taking place from viruses that infect our fellow primates.

An alternate idea has come out of the fact that this doesn't seem to be consistently true. Bats, for example, have "gifted" humans with such distantly related viruses as SARS-CoV-1 and Ebola, and they're not especially closely related to us. As a result, researchers have hypothesized that there might be what have been called "special reservoirs," or species that, for ecological or lifestyle reasons, have ended up with viruses that can adapt more readily to human hosts. These special reservoirs could simply be more likely to live in close proximity to humans, raising the risks of transmission.

Two Glasgow researchers, Nardus Mollentze and Daniel Streicker, decided to conduct a test of these two hypotheses by figuring out whether there were any groups of species that were more likely to spread viruses to humans.

Building trees
To do so, Mollentze and Streicker built a comprehensive database of every virus that has been reported to make the jump to humans, as well as the host from which it jumped. In all, there were 415 different viruses that had a host assigned and could be used for the analysis (that's out of 673 known virus species). These were spread across 30 families (the designation two levels above species) and had made their way out of 11 different orders of host species (an order is the level above family).

On their own, the results would seem to point to the special reservoir model, as hoofed ungulates (like our agricultural animals) and rodents collectively accounted for half the viruses that had transitioned to human hosts. But things got more complex when the authors tried to analyze the properties of a virus that made it more likely to make this transition. The best combination of properties, which could explain about half the probability of a zoonotic jump, was dominated by things like transmission through insects and a relatively simple replication cycle inside cells.

An while the host's order on the evolutionary tree appeared to matter at first, it mattered much less once the authors adjusted for a critical factor: how many individual species make up that order. For example, rodent and ungulate species may transmit more viruses to us, but there are a lot of species in these groups. If you adjust the rate by species number, the effect largely goes away. If you also control for the fact that we've identified far more virus species in mammals than in birds, then the effect becomes little more than statistical noise. The probability that a group of species will transmit a virus to humans becomes a function of how many species are in that group.

This is inconsistent with the special-reservoir hypothesis. But things don't look great for the evolutionary explanation, either. While the zoonotic risk dropped as you got further from primates, this accounted for less than 1 percent of the overall risk.

In fact, if you simply estimated the number of zoonotic jumps based on the species number, groups that seemed threatening start to look fairly mundane. Rodents, for example, would be expected to have given 42 viruses to humans; we're aware of 41 instances where that took place. Bats would be expected to have transferred 28 viruses to us but have only sent 22 of them. The one exception is, again, the ungulates, which seem to send viruses our way at rates above what we'd expect.

Now what?
The hope was that, by identifying the rules of zoonotic transfers, we could identify groups of species that have an elevated risk of causing problems and thus could be subjected to more careful monitoring. This analysis suggests that these groups might not exist. It doesn't rule out the possibility that there are groups of species below the order level that are hotspots for zoonotic transfers. But at this point, the number of viruses transferred per group is likely to be small and might not stand out from statistical noise.

That said, some species/virus combinations are notable. For example, while bats are notable for having been the source of SARS-CoV-1 and Ebola, they're actually most likely to transfer a new species of rabies virus to humans. Other primates are a major source of adenovirus and Dengue species, while rodents tend to transfer hantaviruses and arenaviruses.

While this isn't especially good news for targeted surveillance efforts, that might not be bad news overall. Having obvious targets might mean we over-focus on those, leaving us vulnerable to risks we hadn't anticipated.

PNAS, 2020. DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1919176117 (About DOIs).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5523
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:40:24 AM   
MakeeLearn


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Food stamp benefits increase $2B a month during coronavirus outbreak
Apr 22, 2020


https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Food-stamp-benefits-increase-2B-a-month-during-coronavirus-outbreak-569865511.html


"WASHINGTON (Gray News) – With more than 22 million Americans filing for unemployment since the pandemic started, emergency food benefit payouts have surged.
Emergency SNAP allotments total nearly $2 billion a month, which amounts to a 40% increase. (Source: USDA)

The allotments total nearly $2 billion a month, a press release from the U.S. Department of Agriculture said.

That’s in addition to the $4.5 billion in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits that were already being paid out each month.

"These are unprecedented times for American families who are facing joblessness and hunger. USDA is providing a 40% increase in SNAP benefits to ensure that low-income individuals have enough food to feed themselves and their families during this national emergency," U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue said."

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Post #: 5524
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:45:41 AM   
Zorch

 

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'Researchers identify cells likely targeted by COVID-19 virus'

Please see https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200422132556.htm

Study finds specific cells in the lungs, nasal passages, and intestines that are more susceptible to infection

Researchers at MIT; the Ragon Institute of MGH, MIT, and Harvard; and the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard; along with colleagues from around the world have identified specific types of cells that appear to be targets of the coronavirus that is causing the Covid-19 pandemic.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5525
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:50:33 AM   
MakeeLearn


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New coronavirus emerges from bats in China, devastates young swine


April 4, 2018


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180404133529.htm


"A newly identified coronavirus that killed nearly 25,000 piglets in 2016-17 in China emerged from horseshoe bats near the origin of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV), which emerged in 2002 in the same bat species. The new virus is named swine acute diarrhea syndrome coronavirus (SADS-CoV).

It does not appear to infect people, unlike SARS-CoV which infected more than 8,000 people and killed 774. No SARS-CoV cases have been identified since 2004. The study investigators identified SADS-CoV on four pig farms in China's Guangdong Province."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/23/2020 4:55:10 AM >


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Post #: 5526
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 4:59:15 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Most of us love history, so that helps us keep this in perspective. While this is one of the gripping stories of our time it bears no resemblance to what our grandparents and great-grandparents experienced a century ago. They dealt with something like 40 million to 100 million Spanish flu deaths and a world war. Coronavirus mortality, in comparison, is an order of magnitude less, is projected to remain so, and most of us are safely at home or at work with plenty of food, power, entertainment, books, etc.

There's also the fact that originally this was projected to be exponentially more significant than its been or appears likely to be. Early on, as we've noted here many times, an Australian group came up with seven projections, the least of which called for 17 million deaths worldwide. Then there was a US estimate calling for 1.7 million deaths. Then came one for California alone to suffer 200k to 500k. Then the oft-sighted projection that the US would suffer 100k to 240k mortalities three weeks ago. Now, the estimates for the US have stabilized at around 60k to 70k. That's a great deal of death but so much fewer than early estimates and so much less than the Spanish flu...and the world survived that.

People are trying to foresee what the future holds and to get ready. Early projections will probably be about as accurate as they were for this round. But mankind is getting a grip on this, through lots of trial and error and guesswork and deductive reasoning and testing. We flattened the curve, which was the dominant approach advocated early on. And it's good that we'll now test various measures of easing, while many/most hospitals have capacity to deal with flare ups. The knowledge gained will be useful when/if the next round comes.
warspite1

In response mind_messing wrote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The world was a different place in 1918. Life, to be blunt, was worth less than it is now.

warspite1

There's been some comeback on m_m's simple comment and I really don't understand why.

Yes 1918 was very different and life was 'cheaper'. It is oft said and I've never heard it queried before. Never.

And for the avoidance of doubt, this is not to say that deaths back in 1918 or 1818 or whenever, weren't personal tragedies to those involved. But there was more acceptance - probably because there had to be.

Times have changed, values change, hardship - war, disease, depression, hunger (for most of us - certainly in the western world) - is nothing like what it was 100 years ago, expectations of life change. One very obvious example is the motor racing world. In days past - and no, we are not talking that far back at all, drivers would die - sometimes horribly - and yet races would continue. There would be no thought of halting a race because a driver had left the track and been decapitated, or a driver had burned to death while a solitary driver tried to rescue the trapped pilot as cars sped past lap after lap. Nowadays? Nowadays things - mercifully - are very, very different.

Where does the mild rebuke "1st world problems" come from? It rightly reflects that our problems in the western world in the 21st century are nothing compared to what those in the past (and the current in some parts of the world) are suffering. Pandemics aside, our problems simply don't compare with problems of people 100 years ago. That is simple fact. There was more acceptance of death because there was not much choice was there?

m_m and I rarely agree on anything, but I really don't understand why this comment should be picked up on.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/23/2020 5:10:45 AM >


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Post #: 5527
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 5:08:20 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Maybe no fishing opener for Wiscons? Maybe stay at home for Memorial Day?
No events for Veterans at cemeteries!?

Evers Extends Wisconsin Stay-At-Home Order Until May 26
Gov. Tony Evers has extended Wisconsin’s stay-at-home order for another month.



Meanwhile in D.C. and Baltimore, meth clinics are open for business with lines around the block, needles to addicts, abortion industry is an essential service while some other medical services aren't happening, in D.C. pot stores are open. Hypocritical X infinity

States are letting out hardened criminals because it is too dangerous to be in prison but locking up the working class for being outdoors... Friends we live in a bizarro world....

warspite1

So you believe all this is happening, but don't believe in anything we are being told about the Coronavirus which, according to you, is just a media hoax?? Where did you hear hardened criminals were being released? Wasn't the media was it?

A 'mainstream media hoax'..... yes you do live in a bizzaro world.


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Post #: 5528
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 8:41:11 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Maybe no fishing opener for Wiscons? Maybe stay at home for Memorial Day?
No events for Veterans at cemeteries!?

Evers Extends Wisconsin Stay-At-Home Order Until May 26
Gov. Tony Evers has extended Wisconsin’s stay-at-home order for another month.



Meanwhile in D.C. and Baltimore, meth clinics are open for business with lines around the block, needles to addicts, abortion industry is an essential service while some other medical services aren't happening, in D.C. pot stores are open. Hypocritical X infinity

States are letting out hardened criminals because it is too dangerous to be in prison but locking up the working class for being outdoors... Friends we live in a bizarro world....

warspite1

So you believe all this is happening, but don't believe in anything we are being told about the Coronavirus which, according to you, is just a media hoax?? Where did you hear hardened criminals were being released? Wasn't the media was it?

A 'mainstream media hoax'..... yes you do live in a bizzaro world.



This is the part I don't get. There is the constant pressure that "media" is biased. Media being some catch-all word without specificity that indicates an organisation that attempts to communicate events in the world today.

Then there are the more targeted responses to specific sources (also without much evidence of general or specific bias) of sources like CNN and NY Times.

We're all getting news from somewhere. If you have questions about source validity, and you're posting from a trusted source, give a little bit of evidence why this one is somehow better.

For one, I'll check out any story, and any source and find out whether it's reputable and the source has a reputation for the several factors that would show a responsibility toward objective coverage. I would not conflate coverage of events with opinion page and editorial comment in the same source, however.

The danger of "media misrust" is the vulnerability to misinformation and the devaluing of objective evidence, scientific research and any other form of rational understanding of our world.



< Message edited by obvert -- 4/23/2020 8:42:34 AM >


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Post #: 5529
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 8:57:11 AM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Infant mortality is considerably higher today than it was 100 years ago


Now that *is* demonstratively untrue!

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5530
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 9:47:17 AM   
RFalvo69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This is almost certainly agent provocateur stuff.



quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

No ****.









Or something made up by a dissenting guy trying to weaponize their own beliefs against themselves...

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5531
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 10:16:16 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Infant mortality is considerably higher today than it was 100 years ago


Now that *is* demonstratively untrue!

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality


Warning: opinion statement and conjecture

He's bringing in abortion as a form of child mortality without actuality mentioning it, or providing evidence, and while assuming there was little to no abortion in the early 20th century and trusting that the core group will understand both his intent and sentiment.

Actually there were quite a lot of abortions in this period but records are scant because the procedure was no longer legal, while it was very common and not condemned by either law or the church in the 19th century up until after the civil war.






< Message edited by obvert -- 4/23/2020 10:53:06 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 5532
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 10:52:03 AM   
RangerJoe


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Changing the subject so the thread hopefully does not get locked up:

Gates Foundation, NIH, WHO Emails Hacked and Posted online
CyberSecurityMag

quote:

According to Washington Post, unknown activists have posted nearly 25,000 email addresses and passwords allegedly belonging to the National Institutes of Health, the World Health Organization, the Gates Foundation and other groups working to combat the coronavirus pandemic, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors online extremism and terrorist groups.
SITE was unable to verify whether the email addresses and passwords were authentic. Robert Potter, an Australian cybersecurity expert, said he was able to verify that the WHO email addresses and passwords were real.


https://cybersecuritymag.com/gates-foundation-nih-who-emails-hacked-and-posted-online/

The appear to he older hacks and the results were put together.

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5533
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 10:58:24 AM   
RangerJoe


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How does coronavirus kill? Clinicians trace a ferocious rampage through the body, from brain to toes
Apr. 17, 2020

quote:

On rounds in a 20-bed intensive care unit one recent day, physician Joshua Denson assessed two patients with seizures, many with respiratory failure and others whose kidneys were on a dangerous downhill slide. Days earlier, his rounds had been interrupted as his team tried, and failed, to resuscitate a young woman whose heart had stopped. All shared one thing, says Denson, a pulmonary and critical care physician at the Tulane University School of Medicine. “They are all COVID positive.”

As the number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 surges past 2.2 million globally and deaths surpass 150,000, clinicians and pathologists are struggling to understand the damage wrought by the coronavirus as it tears through the body. They are realizing that although the lungs are ground zero, its reach can extend to many organs including the heart and blood vessels, kidneys, gut, and brain.
“[The disease] can attack almost anything in the body with devastating consequences,” says cardiologist Harlan Krumholz of Yale University and Yale-New Haven Hospital, who is leading multiple efforts to gather clinical data on COVID-19. “Its ferocity is breathtaking and humbling.”

Understanding the rampage could help the doctors on the front lines treat the fraction of infected people who become desperately and sometimes mysteriously ill. Does a dangerous, newly observed tendency to blood clotting transform some mild cases into life-threatening emergencies? Is an overzealous immune response behind the worst cases, suggesting treatment with immune-suppressing drugs could help? What explains the startlingly low blood oxygen that some physicians are reporting in patients who nonetheless are not gasping for breath? “Taking a systems approach may be beneficial as we start thinking about therapies,” says Nilam Mangalmurti, a pulmonary intensivist at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania (HUP).

What follows is a snapshot of the fast-evolving understanding of how the virus attacks cells around the body, especially in the roughly 5% of patients who become critically ill. Despite the more than 1000 papers now spilling into journals and onto preprint servers every week, a clear picture is elusive, as the virus acts like no pathogen humanity has ever seen. Without larger, prospective controlled studies that are only now being launched, scientists must pull information from small studies and case reports, often published at warp speed and not yet peer reviewed. “We need to keep a very open mind as this phenomenon goes forward,” says Nancy Reau, a liver transplant physician who has been treating COVID-19 patients at Rush University Medical Center. “We are still learning.”


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes

It has a lot more details about the attacks on the various parts of the body.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5534
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 11:00:00 AM   
RangerJoe


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Sorry Cap, it appears they are not selling them:

Lululemon apologizes after employee posted 'bat fried rice' T-shirt design on his Instagram

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lululemon-apologized-after-its-art-director-posted-bat-fried-rice-n1188831

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5535
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 11:01:29 AM   
obvert


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Back on track here too, the info I'd been looking for yesterday about Swedish rates per/100,000 as related to the rates in the US. Since Sweden has been a country adopting a non-mandated program of working from home, social distancing, etc, here are some rates from key municipalities there. I've embedded that in the US map.

I also highlighted a county I used to live in. Chatham County in NC. It's pretty rural. As shown the case rate/1000 is surprisingly high for a rural area with a lot of farmland, low density and a few small towns. That seems to be the case many places in rural US areas.

There are also some areas of lower density that go into the darker orange categories or 400+/1000 and 1000+/1000.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/23/2020 11:27:04 AM >


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Post #: 5536
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 11:03:01 AM   
RangerJoe


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On NO!

PANDEMIC
'Uncharted territory.' Oil prices go negative for 1st time
Tuesday, April 21, 2020

https://www.eenews.net/stories/1062929285

Apparently speculators could not take delivery of the oil in May so they had to sell.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5537
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 11:50:13 AM   
HansBolter


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From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Constantly trumpeting your political position is irrelevant and boring.



Frankly I find it to be a refreshing counterpoint to the never ending drivel of blithering village idiocy coming from the leftists.


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5538
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 11:55:42 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 7709
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Constantly trumpeting your political position is irrelevant and boring.


Frankly I find it to be a refreshing counterpoint to the never ending drivel of blithering village idiocy coming from the leftists.


That is probably why they find it boring.

Of course, my grandfather was a lefty. He was in his right mind . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5539
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 11:59:48 AM   
Canoerebel


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For the second time in 24 hours, the Univ. of Washington group revised its mortality projections for the states. This may have been done to take into account easing of countermeasures.

For Georgia, the mortality projection went from about 1,900 to about 2,200. For the US, the increase went from 65k to 67k.

Since a more or less permanent lockdown isn't going to happen, there may be utility in a few states easing countermeasures. It'll generate data, closely scrutinized, as to how it works. What problems ensue? Do people continue to self-moderate or are there issues? If we're destined to experience a second wave in the fall, the more we know, the better.

Ditto regarding easing in other countries, including Denmark, Germany, and Austria.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/23/2020 12:00:50 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5540
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:01:50 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Infant mortality is considerably higher today than it was 100 years ago, and it's mostly elective. At least half the population and basically all the media have rationalized it to the point that they don't think about it in terms of humans dying. So is life worth more today than it was a century ago? No.


On that issue I'd suggest we not go there. Plenty of very deeply held and emotive opinions on both sides that essentially come down to where you see 'human life' as beginning. None of which really pertains to the present situation.



You just hit the nail on the head of the single greatest problem facing humanity.

People need to start worrying less about 'how they see things" and a whole lot more about the facts of reality of how things are.

Steam starts coming out of my ears every time I hear someone use the phrase 'how I see things'.

The phrase 'how I see things' is an automatic disqualifier that negates everything that follows it.

What 'how I see things' really means is 'I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but this is what I think'.....

A little clue here, nobody give a rats ass what you, or I , or anyone THINKS.

It's what we know to be facts of reality that matter.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 5541
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:07:05 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
The latest on lock downs gone crazy


https://www.dailywire.com/news/sheriff-slams-democrat-governor-in-viral-post-says-he-wont-enforce-lockdown-i-can-no-longer-stay-silent




This kind of arbitrary choosing of what does and does not constitute an essential business or activity is WHY Americans fought to eliminate the tyranny of autocratic rule.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/23/2020 12:13:33 PM >


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Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5542
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:15:05 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25212
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Infant mortality is considerably higher today than it was 100 years ago, and it's mostly elective. At least half the population and basically all the media have rationalized it to the point that they don't think about it in terms of humans dying. So is life worth more today than it was a century ago? No.


On that issue I'd suggest we not go there. Plenty of very deeply held and emotive opinions on both sides that essentially come down to where you see 'human life' as beginning. None of which really pertains to the present situation.



You just hit the nail on the head of the single greatest problem facing humanity.

People need to start worrying less about 'how they see things" and a whole lot more about the facts of reality of how things are.

Steam starts coming out of my ears every time I hear someone use the phrase 'how I see things'.

The phrase 'how I see things' is an automatic disqualifier that negates everything that follows it.

What 'how I see things' really means is 'I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but this is what I think'.....

A little clue here, nobody give a rats ass what you, or I , or anyone THINKS.

It's what we know to be facts of reality that matter.


Facts without interpretation are meaningless. Particularly if facts (like much about COVID-19) are disparate, disconnected and largely unknown. Interpretation of factual meaning and application of experiential learning are the underpinning of scientific discovery and critical to how we make decisions about everything in science and life in general.

"How I see things" could be replaced with "Based upon my experience with X, I think Y" to make a perfectly valid root comparative for discourse.

_____________________________


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5543
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:15:36 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
This is the article I meant to link to my comment about the judiciary having set itself on a collision course of reckoning with the people since legislation from the bench is an illegal violation of the separation of powers:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-judges-30-day-coronavirus-mask-order-blasted-as-ultimate-government-overreach

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Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5544
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:18:21 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4545
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
Status: offline
I've been following this thread with interest from a distance....esp. since I have had Covid-19, a very unpleasant experience.

As always with this community I have learned a lot from folks with a great deal of expertise across a broad area of subjects...the strength of this forum.

However it does seem to me that this thread is drifting into politics in a way they could be very divisive to the purpose of the forum....that of supporting a passionate gaming community.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5545
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:20:06 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
The latest data from myflorida.com:





Attachment (1)

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Hans


(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 5546
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:22:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Hey, fabertong, I wasn't aware that you'd had it. I'm glad you're on this side of the experience. If you have time, tell us about it. I don't think we've had another forumite with a confirmed case, though several have mentioned suspicious or self-quarantining to see. Also, MacLean from Toronto mentioned weeks ago that he was in isolation or being tested, and I think that was the last we heard from him here.

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 5547
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:36:54 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19524
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Here in Pennsylvania, a lot of funny things are going on. County Coroner's from rural areas say zero deaths from Covid, and but the state is attributing many deaths due to covid to them.

Here is a picture of our State Sec of Health along with other members of our leadership.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5548
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:41:10 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Too much soy?




Attachment (1)

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“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 5549
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/23/2020 12:45:30 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here in Pennsylvania, a lot of funny things are going on. County Coroner's from rural areas say zero deaths from Covid, and but the state is attributing many deaths due to covid to them.

Here is a picture of our State Sec of Health along with other members of our leadership.






Maybe... just maybe... it's because some Coronaviruses identify as a flu.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/23/2020 12:47:06 PM >


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“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 5550
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