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RE: OT: Corona virus

 
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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:06:33 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42638
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

People are sick but no doubt we've had epidemics before but I can't shake the feeling that this is another hoax in a long line of them perpetrated by the 'mainstream' media the last 3 and a half years.

We have rights given by our forefathers (the Framers of the Constitution) and ain't no one taken mine away.

Ben Franklin said it best..."This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other."


warspite1

Have you ever visited the planet earth?



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 5461
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:10:00 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 7780
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Things got a little heated during the discussion:

Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s opponents block COVID-19 measure giving her extraordinary spending powers for Chicago’s pandemic response

quote:

Opponents of Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s move to codify extraordinary spending powers in response to the coronavirus blocked its passage Wednesday, though their victory in stopping what they see as mayoral overreach may be short-lived.
When five aldermen used a parliamentary procedure to automatically defer Lightfoot’s emergency powers ordinance until the next City Council meeting, the mayor responded by immediately setting a new meeting for 1 p.m. Friday to vote on the measure then.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-chicago-lori-lightfoot-emergency-powers-stalled-20200422-t6bwxrxbafhwrb4nwu4dhj2ham-story.html


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 5462
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:19:31 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14036
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The part of this article I was able to read before the paywall popped up was reasonable but the editor of the NYT told his own newsroom they showed bias during the 2016 election. Like we needed him to tell us that. The NYT editorial board is a diversity check-list of Lefty lunatics.

American conservatives don't trust the NYT. Of course, there are the occasional "random acts of journalism" and the Times gets the best leaked government swamp stories


The two parts of your first sentence are not related.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5463
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:30:33 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14036
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Case density in the US. This is a map I've been following for a while. A few recent posts mentioned Sweden and their lack of lockdown.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5464
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:32:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22461
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The part of this article I was able to read before the paywall popped up was reasonable but the editor of the NYT told his own newsroom they showed bias during the 2016 election. Like we needed him to tell us that. The NYT editorial board is a diversity check-list of Lefty lunatics.

American conservatives don't trust the NYT. Of course, there are the occasional "random acts of journalism" and the Times gets the best leaked government swamp stories


The two parts of your first sentence are not related.


Sure they are. Was the article not from the NYT? The NYT is populated by Leftists but they still manage to have interesting articles at times. That is simply the point.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5465
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:34:34 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22461
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Case density in the US. This is a map I've been following for a while. A few recent posts mentioned Sweden and their lack of lockdown.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage







Old Route 66 sure got slaughtered.


"Get your COVID...on Route 66"

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5466
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:37:16 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22461
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Looks like the Navajo Nation got clobbered too.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5467
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:45:30 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Looks like the Navajo Nation got clobbered too.


And indigenous tribes in the Amazon, nursing homes, meat packing plants, prisons, etc. Looking at this from a "reconnaissance of enemy troops", the number of infected people has to be very high. With the vast majority - asymptomatic or mild. A very good chance that mortality rate is < 1%.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/22/2020 7:47:01 PM >


_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5468
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:47:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 7780
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
You can see where the college towns are.

NW Minnesota with the dark area are two college towns, Rochester is SE MN is not only a college town but where the Mayo Clinic is. But the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul are not hit as hard.

Superior Wisconsin in NW Wisconsin also has colleges there as well as across the border in Duluth MN.

Western ND has a spot where the fracking is.

You can see where Salt Lake City is, which does have some colleges there as well.

But a lot of the Western US not on the coast does not have a lot except for Washington state, Colorado, as mentioned the reservations in Arizona and New Mexico as well as the fun spots in Nevada.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5469
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:50:09 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Troubling findings from AVMA...

@Hansbolter-check this out. Best to probably keep your cats indoor exclusive (mine are) until further notice.

Confirmation of COVID-19 in Two Pet Cats in New York

Washington, D.C. April 22, 2020 – The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the United States Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) National Veterinary Services Laboratories (NVSL) today announced the first confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) infection in two pet cats. These are the first pets in the United States to test positive for SARS-CoV-2.

The cats live in two separate areas of New York state. Both had mild respiratory illness and are expected to make a full recovery. SARS-CoV-2 infections have been reported in very few animals worldwide, mostly in those that had close contact with a person with COVID-19.

At this time, routine testing of animals is not recommended. Should other animals be confirmed positive for SARS-CoV-2 in the United States, USDA will post the findings at https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/SA_One_Health/sars-cov-2-animals-us. State animal health and public health officials will take the lead in making determinations about whether animals should be tested for SARS-CoV-2.

In the New York cases announced today, a veterinarian tested the first cat after it showed mild respiratory signs. No individuals in the household were confirmed to be ill with COVID-19. The virus may have been transmitted to this cat by mildly ill or asymptomatic household members or through contact with an infected person outside its home.



Samples from the second cat were taken after it showed signs of respiratory illness. The owner of the cat tested positive for COVID-19 prior to the cat showing signs. Another cat in the household has shown no signs of illness.



Both cats tested presumptive positive for SARS-CoV-2 at a private veterinary laboratory, which then reported the results to state and federal officials. The confirmatory testing was conducted at NVSL and included collection of additional samples. NVSL serves as an international reference laboratory and provides expertise and guidance on diagnostic techniques, as well as confirmatory testing for foreign and emerging animal diseases. Such testing is required for certain animal diseases in the U.S. in order to comply with national and international reporting procedures. The World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) considers SARS-CoV-2 an emerging disease, and therefore USDA must report confirmed U.S. animal infections to the OIE.



Public health officials are still learning about SARS-CoV-2, but there is no evidence that pets play a role in spreading the virus in the United States. Therefore, there is no justification in taking measures against companion animals that may compromise their welfare. Further studies are needed to understand if and how different animals, including pets, could be affected.

Until we know more, CDC recommends the following:

Do not let pets interact with people or other animals outside the household.
Keep cats indoors when possible to prevent them from interacting with other animals or people.
Walk dogs on a leash, maintaining at least 6 feet from other people and animals.
Avoid dog parks or public places where a large number of people and dogs gather.

If you are sick with COVID-19 (either suspected or confirmed by a test), restrict contact with your pets and other animals, just like you would around other people.

When possible, have another member of your household care for your pets while you are sick.
Avoid contact with your pet, including petting, snuggling, being kissed or licked, and sharing food or bedding.
If you must care for your pet or be around animals while you are sick, wear a cloth face covering and wash your hands before and after you interact with them.

While additional animals may test positive as infections continue in people, it is important to note that performing this animal testing does not reduce the availability of tests for humans. The U.S. government remains committed to increasing nationwide COVID-19 testing for Americans. In fact, the United States has conducted more than four million COVID-19 tests for humans, which is more tests than the following nations combined: France, the UK, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, India, Austria, Australia, Sweden, and Canada.

For more information on animals and COVID-19, see: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html

For more information about testing in animals, see:

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/one_health/downloads/faq-public-on-companion-animal-testing.pdf




Thanks Chickenboy. That's good information to be aware of but it's simply an impossibility for me.

My 7 cats are all indoor/outdoor types who would quickly become neurotic if I tried to force them to live indoors.
I have cat doors on both front and rear doors allowing them free access without my having to serve as full time doorman.

I also feed 3-5 stray cats whom I won't stop providing for.

On top of that my home only has air conditioning in two bedrooms in the form of window shakers.
Both bedrooms also have cat doors allowing free access when the air is running and the doors are closed.

I would never consider forcing my cats to remain in the stifling hot house all day long while I am at work.

Not to mention what the litter box situation would be like.......

We can't put life on hold in order to try and hide from the virus.





Waiting now to be lambasted and ridiculed by the 'why aren't you locked down crowd'............

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5470
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:51:23 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Now this....


A mysterious blood-clotting complication is killing coronavirus patients
1 hr ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mysterious-blood-clotting-complication-is-killing-coronavirus-patients/ar-BB1336g0?li=BBnb7Kz


"One doctor replied that one of his patients had a strange blood problem. Despite receiving anticoagulants, the patient was still developing clots. A second said she’d seen something similar. And a third. Soon, every person on the text chat had reported the same thing.

“That’s when we knew we had a huge problem,” said Coopersmith, a critical-care surgeon. As he checked with his counterparts at other medical centers, he became increasingly alarmed: “It was in as many as 20, 30 or 40 percent of their patients.” "

"Autopsies have shown some people’s lungs fill with hundreds of microclots. Errant blood clots of a larger size can break off and travel to the brain or heart, causing a stroke or heart attack. On Saturday, Broadway actor Nick Cordero, 41, had his right leg amputated after being infected with the novel coronavirus and suffering from clots that blocked blood from getting to his toes. "

"“The problem we are having is that while we understand that there is a clot, we don’t yet understand why there is a clot,” Kaplan said. “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.” "

_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5471
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 7:54:39 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
This Has to Stop: Mother Handcuffed and Arrested by Police in Idaho for Letting Kids Play in a Park (VIDEO)
April 21, 2020


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/stop-mother-handcuffed-arrested-police-idaho-letting-kids-play-park-video/


A young mother was arrested by police in Idaho for playing with her children in a park.

_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5472
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:01:46 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Aberrant coagulation causes a hyper-inflammatory response in severe influenza pneumonia
2016 Apr 4.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947825/


"Influenza virus infection causes excessive activation of ECs and platelets, which triggers a coagulation cascade with concurrently impaired anti-coagulatory and fibrinolytic signaling. Such a pro-coagulant state can cause hemorrhagic fever and is often associated with ARDS in severe flu patients.

The aberrant coagulation system contributes to the severity of influenza at multiple levels.

The activated ECs and platelets first produce pro-inflammatory cytokines and chemokines that enhance inflammatory cell infiltration and increase vascular permeability. Platelets are further activated under these circumstances."

" Dysfunctional coagulation is a common complication in pathogenic influenza, manifested by lung endothelial activation, vascular leak, disseminated intravascular coagulation and pulmonary microembolism. "

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/22/2020 8:04:54 PM >


_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5473
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:03:35 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

"Heart and Vascular - Flu Impact on Heart"
No Date

https://www.stjohnleavenworth.com/Services/Heart-and-Vascular/Heart-and-Vascular-Flu-Impact-on-Heart.aspx



""Flu can make a cholesterol filled plaque vulnerable to rupture, form a blood clot and cause heart attacks and sudden death," according to Saint John board-certified cardiologist Venkat Pasnoori, MD, MPH, FACC FSCAI.

Having any kind of viral infection, such as the flu, makes the heart work harder. In an effort to fight off the infection, the body releases chemicals that often cause inflammation, blood clotting and elevated blood pressure. "

_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5474
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:04:40 PM   
Nomad

 

Posts: 4681
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Troubling findings from AVMA...

@Hansbolter-check this out. Best to probably keep your cats indoor exclusive (mine are) until further notice.

Confirmation of COVID-19 in Two Pet Cats in New York

Washington, D.C. April 22, 2020 – The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the United States Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) National Veterinary Services Laboratories (NVSL) today announced the first confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) infection in two pet cats. These are the first pets in the United States to test positive for SARS-CoV-2.

The cats live in two separate areas of New York state. Both had mild respiratory illness and are expected to make a full recovery. SARS-CoV-2 infections have been reported in very few animals worldwide, mostly in those that had close contact with a person with COVID-19.

At this time, routine testing of animals is not recommended. Should other animals be confirmed positive for SARS-CoV-2 in the United States, USDA will post the findings at https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/SA_One_Health/sars-cov-2-animals-us. State animal health and public health officials will take the lead in making determinations about whether animals should be tested for SARS-CoV-2.

In the New York cases announced today, a veterinarian tested the first cat after it showed mild respiratory signs. No individuals in the household were confirmed to be ill with COVID-19. The virus may have been transmitted to this cat by mildly ill or asymptomatic household members or through contact with an infected person outside its home.



Samples from the second cat were taken after it showed signs of respiratory illness. The owner of the cat tested positive for COVID-19 prior to the cat showing signs. Another cat in the household has shown no signs of illness.



Both cats tested presumptive positive for SARS-CoV-2 at a private veterinary laboratory, which then reported the results to state and federal officials. The confirmatory testing was conducted at NVSL and included collection of additional samples. NVSL serves as an international reference laboratory and provides expertise and guidance on diagnostic techniques, as well as confirmatory testing for foreign and emerging animal diseases. Such testing is required for certain animal diseases in the U.S. in order to comply with national and international reporting procedures. The World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) considers SARS-CoV-2 an emerging disease, and therefore USDA must report confirmed U.S. animal infections to the OIE.



Public health officials are still learning about SARS-CoV-2, but there is no evidence that pets play a role in spreading the virus in the United States. Therefore, there is no justification in taking measures against companion animals that may compromise their welfare. Further studies are needed to understand if and how different animals, including pets, could be affected.

Until we know more, CDC recommends the following:

Do not let pets interact with people or other animals outside the household.
Keep cats indoors when possible to prevent them from interacting with other animals or people.
Walk dogs on a leash, maintaining at least 6 feet from other people and animals.
Avoid dog parks or public places where a large number of people and dogs gather.

If you are sick with COVID-19 (either suspected or confirmed by a test), restrict contact with your pets and other animals, just like you would around other people.

When possible, have another member of your household care for your pets while you are sick.
Avoid contact with your pet, including petting, snuggling, being kissed or licked, and sharing food or bedding.
If you must care for your pet or be around animals while you are sick, wear a cloth face covering and wash your hands before and after you interact with them.

While additional animals may test positive as infections continue in people, it is important to note that performing this animal testing does not reduce the availability of tests for humans. The U.S. government remains committed to increasing nationwide COVID-19 testing for Americans. In fact, the United States has conducted more than four million COVID-19 tests for humans, which is more tests than the following nations combined: France, the UK, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, India, Austria, Australia, Sweden, and Canada.

For more information on animals and COVID-19, see: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html

For more information about testing in animals, see:

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/one_health/downloads/faq-public-on-companion-animal-testing.pdf




Thanks Chickenboy. That's good information to be aware of but it's simply an impossibility for me.

My 7 cats are all indoor/outdoor types who would quickly become neurotic if I tried to force them to live indoors.
I have cat doors on both front and rear doors allowing them free access without my having to serve as full time doorman.

I also feed 3-5 stray cats whom I won't stop providing for.

On top of that my home only has air conditioning in two bedrooms in the form of window shakers.
Both bedrooms also have cat doors allowing free access when the air is running and the doors are closed.

I would never consider forcing my cats to remain in the stifling hot house all day long while I am at work.

Not to mention what the litter box situation would be like.......

We can't put life on hold in order to try and hide from the virus.





Waiting now to be lambasted and ridiculed by the 'why aren't you locked down crowd'............


Far from lambasting you, we all have to do what we can and what we have to do. I hope that you and all your cats do fine.


_____________________________


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5475
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:09:53 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Severe Swine Flu Could Lead to Blood Clots in Lungs: Study
Oct. 14, 2009


https://consumer.healthday.com/circulatory-system-information-7/blood-disorder-news-68/severe-swine-flu-could-lead-to-blood-clots-in-lungs-study-631954.html



"People who are severely ill with the H1N1 swine flu run the risk of blood clots in the lungs, University of Michigan researchers say."

""The high incidence of pulmonary embolism is important. Radiologists have to be aware to look closely for the risks of pulmonary embolism in severely sick patients," study lead author Dr. Prachi P. Agarwal, assistant professor of radiology at the University of Michigan Medical School, said in a university news release."

_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 5476
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:10:57 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Now this....


A mysterious blood-clotting complication is killing coronavirus patients
1 hr ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mysterious-blood-clotting-complication-is-killing-coronavirus-patients/ar-BB1336g0?li=BBnb7Kz


"One doctor replied that one of his patients had a strange blood problem. Despite receiving anticoagulants, the patient was still developing clots. A second said she’d seen something similar. And a third. Soon, every person on the text chat had reported the same thing.

“That’s when we knew we had a huge problem,” said Coopersmith, a critical-care surgeon. As he checked with his counterparts at other medical centers, he became increasingly alarmed: “It was in as many as 20, 30 or 40 percent of their patients.” "

"Autopsies have shown some people’s lungs fill with hundreds of microclots. Errant blood clots of a larger size can break off and travel to the brain or heart, causing a stroke or heart attack. On Saturday, Broadway actor Nick Cordero, 41, had his right leg amputated after being infected with the novel coronavirus and suffering from clots that blocked blood from getting to his toes. "

"“The problem we are having is that while we understand that there is a clot, we don’t yet understand why there is a clot,” Kaplan said. “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.” "



Like with the flu?

_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5477
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:14:47 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

People are sick but no doubt we've had epidemics before but I can't shake the feeling that this is another hoax in a long line of them perpetrated by the 'mainstream' media the last 3 and a half years.

We have rights given by our forefathers (the Framers of the Constitution) and ain't no one taken mine away.

Ben Franklin said it best..."This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other."





A wise man and seems like he would be fun company. He is on my list of 5 people from history to spend a evening with.

_____________________________


“Being intelligent is no guarantee against being stupid”





(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 5478
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:14:49 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14036
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The part of this article I was able to read before the paywall popped up was reasonable but the editor of the NYT told his own newsroom they showed bias during the 2016 election. Like we needed him to tell us that. The NYT editorial board is a diversity check-list of Lefty lunatics.

American conservatives don't trust the NYT. Of course, there are the occasional "random acts of journalism" and the Times gets the best leaked government swamp stories


The two parts of your first sentence are not related.


Sure they are. Was the article not from the NYT? The NYT is populated by Leftists but they still manage to have interesting articles at times. That is simply the point.



It just feels like every statement needs to have some adolescent dig added in to be valid. It "was reasonable but ... ." Why the but?

Constantly trumpeting your political position is irrelevant and boring.





< Message edited by obvert -- 4/22/2020 8:33:51 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5479
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 8:28:27 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14036
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Now this....


A mysterious blood-clotting complication is killing coronavirus patients
1 hr ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mysterious-blood-clotting-complication-is-killing-coronavirus-patients/ar-BB1336g0?li=BBnb7Kz


"One doctor replied that one of his patients had a strange blood problem. Despite receiving anticoagulants, the patient was still developing clots. A second said she’d seen something similar. And a third. Soon, every person on the text chat had reported the same thing.

“That’s when we knew we had a huge problem,” said Coopersmith, a critical-care surgeon. As he checked with his counterparts at other medical centers, he became increasingly alarmed: “It was in as many as 20, 30 or 40 percent of their patients.” "

"Autopsies have shown some people’s lungs fill with hundreds of microclots. Errant blood clots of a larger size can break off and travel to the brain or heart, causing a stroke or heart attack. On Saturday, Broadway actor Nick Cordero, 41, had his right leg amputated after being infected with the novel coronavirus and suffering from clots that blocked blood from getting to his toes. "

"“The problem we are having is that while we understand that there is a clot, we don’t yet understand why there is a clot,” Kaplan said. “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.” "


Very interesting set of research finds.

So this could be one of the main contributing factors to the heart attacks, strokes, other organ issues, possibly?

Odd this is just being discovered, or talked about anyway, now.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5480
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:20:11 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 305
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Now this....


A mysterious blood-clotting complication is killing coronavirus patients
1 hr ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mysterious-blood-clotting-complication-is-killing-coronavirus-patients/ar-BB1336g0?li=BBnb7Kz


"One doctor replied that one of his patients had a strange blood problem. Despite receiving anticoagulants, the patient was still developing clots. A second said she’d seen something similar. And a third. Soon, every person on the text chat had reported the same thing.

“That’s when we knew we had a huge problem,” said Coopersmith, a critical-care surgeon. As he checked with his counterparts at other medical centers, he became increasingly alarmed: “It was in as many as 20, 30 or 40 percent of their patients.” "

"Autopsies have shown some people’s lungs fill with hundreds of microclots. Errant blood clots of a larger size can break off and travel to the brain or heart, causing a stroke or heart attack. On Saturday, Broadway actor Nick Cordero, 41, had his right leg amputated after being infected with the novel coronavirus and suffering from clots that blocked blood from getting to his toes. "

"“The problem we are having is that while we understand that there is a clot, we don’t yet understand why there is a clot,” Kaplan said. “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.” "



Like with the flu?


I don't think that is a surprise though? For me it has been pretty much common ground that this is a 'flu-like' disease and so it would surely make sense that the biological mechanisms leading to death would be similar? I guess the issue is more one of prevalence - that potentially Covid-19 patients are developing those kinds of complications at a much higher rate than Influenza patients.

One statistic I've not seen which would be of interest is the death rate for influenza patients who have to be admitted to hospital?

[Edit - just had a look for myself - for 2016-17 the CDC estimate for the USA c.500,000 hospitalizations and 38,000 deaths - so c. 7.5% death rate - by comparison Italy is currently reporting 32% of closed cases being deaths rather than recoveries]

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/22/2020 9:37:34 PM >

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:27:46 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Now this....


A mysterious blood-clotting complication is killing coronavirus patients
1 hr ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mysterious-blood-clotting-complication-is-killing-coronavirus-patients/ar-BB1336g0?li=BBnb7Kz


"One doctor replied that one of his patients had a strange blood problem. Despite receiving anticoagulants, the patient was still developing clots. A second said she’d seen something similar. And a third. Soon, every person on the text chat had reported the same thing.

“That’s when we knew we had a huge problem,” said Coopersmith, a critical-care surgeon. As he checked with his counterparts at other medical centers, he became increasingly alarmed: “It was in as many as 20, 30 or 40 percent of their patients.” "

"Autopsies have shown some people’s lungs fill with hundreds of microclots. Errant blood clots of a larger size can break off and travel to the brain or heart, causing a stroke or heart attack. On Saturday, Broadway actor Nick Cordero, 41, had his right leg amputated after being infected with the novel coronavirus and suffering from clots that blocked blood from getting to his toes. "

"“The problem we are having is that while we understand that there is a clot, we don’t yet understand why there is a clot,” Kaplan said. “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.” "



Like with the flu?


I don't think that is a surprise though? For me it has been pretty much common ground that this is a 'flu-like' disease and so it would surely make sense that the biological mechanisms leading to death would be similar? I guess the issue is more one of prevalence - that potentially Covid-19 patients are developing those kinds of complications at a much higher rate than Influenza patients.

One statistic I've not seen which would be of interest is the death rate for influenza patients who have to be admitted to hospital?


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947825/

I agree. No surprise and it's a similar mechanism of hyper-inflammatory response in severe influenza pneumoniae. @ Cap Mandrake-is this DIC (Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation) per se?

Sort of dark humor, but we always referred to DIC in patients as "Death Is Coming". It's not a good clinical outcome.

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:31:24 PM   
MakeeLearn


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No surprise, exactly.

I reported on this several pages back.


The news reports and the Doctors in them are:

WOW, whats happening “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.”

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/22/2020 9:34:22 PM >


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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:36:10 PM   
alanschu

 

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Extending from the UK FT post yesterday, NYT has followed up on looking at "excess deaths" to try to measure the impact the pandemic has had on mortality.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Interesting that while Sweden has seen a 12% increase in weekly deaths, there has *not* been an overwhelming of non-covid/uncertain deaths. IIRC I believe they have done well in terms of making sure their health care system was not overwhelmed.

The nature of the data means it's a few weeks behind though and it's still only until the end of March.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:42:01 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

No surprise, exactly.

I reported on this several pages back.


The news reports and the Doctors in them are:

WOW, whats happening “We don’t know. And therefore, we are scared.”


I guess it depends on what they are saying - if they are saying that they literally don't know what is happening then that is on them and they are better served educating themselves rather than speaking to the media.

If, as I think is more likely, they are expressing shock at the prevalence of these kinds of complications then to me it seems a much more appropriate response (although I'd still question how much it helps matters going to the media).

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:48:04 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

Extending from the UK FT post yesterday, NYT has followed up on looking at "excess deaths" to try to measure the impact the pandemic has had on mortality.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Interesting that while Sweden has seen a 12% increase in weekly deaths, there has *not* been an overwhelming of non-covid/uncertain deaths. IIRC I believe they have done well in terms of making sure their health care system was not overwhelmed.

The nature of the data means it's a few weeks behind though and it's still only until the end of March.


I think we will have to give it a month before we have a sense of how Sweden has turned out. They might be a shining light for other countries to follow. They might be a cautionary example. Hopefully it will be the former rather than the latter.

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 9:58:03 PM   
RFalvo69


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No ****.






Attachment (1)

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 10:04:11 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

It just feels like every statement needs to have some adolescent dig added in to be valid. It "was reasonable but ... ." Why the but?

Constantly trumpeting your political position is irrelevant and boring.






Wait a minute. Did I just have an absence attack or did you not ASK what the concern was? "Adolescent"???? Why did you ask if you find it tedious.

Sweet Baby Jesus. I think I will do some yoga because you are annoying the crap out of me as well



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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 10:37:52 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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A question for those of you with science/medical backgrounds (which I don't have)

One of the things that concerns me looking at what is going on in Europe is the amount of healthcare professionals (also in the UK apparently public transport workers) who are getting sick.

Is this the following a possibility?
1) An immune system, once it is up and running in response to the virus has a 'carrying capacity' of the amount of virus it can remove over X amount of time.
2) Thinking optimistically - for most healthy people this carrying capacity is above the increase in levels of virus over the same amount of time - both in terms of the virus multiplying inside of the body and, potentially also in terms of continued 'intake' of the virus from outside the body.
3) But there will still be a time lag of the immune system response to get up and running - so potentially when you test these people they will still have a level of infection Y despite showing no symptoms. This level of infection will test positive.
4) Some people will not have this balance - either because their immune system is not able to remove the virus quicker than it is spreading inside their body or because their circumstances (whether it be because they are a healthcare professional or because by some other quirk of their circumstances) they are getting repeated exposures higher than the norm. So these people will see their level of infection increase until it reaches a point where they become symptomatic - for the sake of argument 4Y.

That is one proposition.

But there might follow a more worrying possibility. That would be that absent social distancing measures individuals are gradually shedding/transmitting more virus than the 'community' carrying capacity is able to deal with. If that were the case you could potentially have a situation where large parts of the community are gradually getting more and more infected until as a community they start reaching that 4Y point where they become sick and you suddenly see precipitous rises in cases and deaths.

Is that way off beam? For me the other more basic explanation for high proportion of medical professionals dying is that they are all exhausted both in general terms and in terms of their immune systems.

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/22/2020 10:49:49 PM >

(in reply to RFalvo69)
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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/22/2020 11:01:09 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

No ****.




I think if you look for it you'll find nutcases everywhere in the same proportions. The US is so much bigger as a population and social media so ubiquitous that there will always be more examples of this and stuff like flat earthism/anti-vax conspiracies that will inaccurately suggest that those kinds of far out beliefs are US-centric.

In the UK we've had a spate of people trying to burn down 5G masts because they think they are spreading the virus

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