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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 8:11:46 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15645
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

‘Worst is yet ahead of us’ in coronavirus outbreak, WHO warns
April 20, 2020


https://globalnews.ca/news/6842358/who-warning-lockdown-worst-coronavirus/



"The head of the World Health Organization has warned that “the worst is yet ahead of us” in the coronavirus outbreak, raising new alarm bells about the pandemic just as many countries are beginning to ease restrictive measures.

WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus didn’t specify exactly why he believes that the outbreak could get worse. Some people, though, have pointed to the likely future spread of the illness through Africa, where health systems are far less developed."


African reporting systems are also poorly developed and highly susceptible to "government management".

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 5341
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 8:31:41 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
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Deaths rates for COVID-19 in New York City as of April 19, 2020, by age group (per 100,000 people)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109867/coronavirus-death-rates-by-age-new-york-city/





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5342
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 8:56:15 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8477
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

A spectre is haunting the West – the spectre of authoritarian capitalism
16 April 2020

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/a-spectre-is-haunting-the-west-the-spectre-of-authoritarian-capitalism/

"Amidst the turmoil in global financial markets in recent weeks, something unusual has happened.

Investors, seeking shelter from the coronavirus-linked sell-off, have piled into Chinese government bonds on an unprecedented scale. These purchases have increased the total foreign ownership of Beijing’s bonds to record highs, even as much of the country is still emerging from lockdown after the viral outbreak. In an ironic twist, the country where the pandemic originated has become an unlikely safe haven for investors – a shift that one prominent trader has described as “the single largest change in capital markets in anybody’s lifetime.”"

"This is the first great crisis of the post-American world."
Carl Bildt, former Swedish Prime Minister

"In 1848 Karl Marx wrote that ‘A spectre is haunting Europe — the spectre of communism.’ Today another spectre is haunting the West: its name is authoritarian capitalism."


Interesting, thank you for posting it.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5343
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 9:24:22 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus antibody testing begins in NY, may be key to reopening country
Updated 8:22 AM


https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-antibody-testing-begins-in-ny-may-be-key-to-reopening-country.html


"Cuomo said 3,000 people across the state will randomly receive tests from the state Department of Health to detect for the presence of antibodies. The statistical sample will help determine what percent of the population may have been exposed to the virus.

“That will tell us, for the first time, what percent of the population actually has had the coronavirus and is now, at least short-term, immune to the virus,” he said Sunday. “This will be the first true snapshot of what we’re dealing with.”"


Exactly

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Post #: 5344
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 9:40:47 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8477
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
For Veterans receiving US Veterans Administration disability payments:

Veterans Affairs recipients will receive automatic Economic Impact Payments; Step follows work between Treasury, IRS, VA
IR-2020-75, April 17, 2020

quote:

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service, working in partnership with the Treasury Department and the Department of Veterans Affairs, announced today that recipients of VA benefits will automatically receive automatic Economic Impact Payments.

Veterans and their beneficiaries who receive Compensation and Pension (C&P) benefit payments from VA will receive a $1,200 Economic Impact Payment with no further action needed on their part. Timing on the payments is still being determined.

Moving VA recipients into the automatic payment category follows weeks of extensive cooperative work between VA, Treasury, IRS as well as the Bureau of Fiscal Services.

"Since many VA recipients typically aren't required to file tax returns, the IRS had to work with these other government agencies to determine a way to quickly and accurately deliver Economic Impact Payments to this group," said IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig. "Additional programming work remains, but this step simplifies the process for VA recipients to quickly and easily receive these $1,200 payments automatically. We deeply appreciate the sacrifices and service to our country by each and every veteran and their families, as well as the assistance of VA and the Bureau of Fiscal Services in this effort."
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For benefit recipients with dependents, extra step needed to claim $500 for children; Register now for earlier delivery

The law provides eligible taxpayers with qualifying children under age 17 to receive an extra $500. For taxpayers who filed tax returns in 2018 or 2019, the child payments will be automatic.

However, many benefit recipients typically aren't required to file tax returns. If they have children who qualify, an extra step is needed to add $500 per child onto their automatic payment of $1,200 if they didn't file a tax return in 2018 or 2019.
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(Non-Filers: Enter Payment Info Here https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/non-filers-enter-payment-info-here
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Watch out for scams related to Economic Impact Payments

The IRS urges taxpayers to be on the lookout for scams related to the Economic Impact Payments. To use the new app or get information, taxpayers should visit IRS.gov. People should watch out for scams using email, phone calls or texts related to the payments. Be careful and cautious: The IRS will not send unsolicited electronic communications asking people to open attachments, visit a website or share personal or financial information. Remember, go directly and solely to IRS.gov for official information.

More information

The IRS has posted frequently asked questions on IRS.gov/coronavirus and will provide more updates as soon as they are available.


I wonder, do kittens count as dependents or just medical expenses?


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5345
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 9:41:29 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25288
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus antibody testing begins in NY, may be key to reopening country
Updated 8:22 AM


https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-antibody-testing-begins-in-ny-may-be-key-to-reopening-country.html


"Cuomo said 3,000 people across the state will randomly receive tests from the state Department of Health to detect for the presence of antibodies. The statistical sample will help determine what percent of the population may have been exposed to the virus.

“That will tell us, for the first time, what percent of the population actually has had the coronavirus and is now, at least short-term, immune to the virus,” he said Sunday. “This will be the first true snapshot of what we’re dealing with.”"


Exactly


Please note the extremely small sample size and the needed extrapolation towards the greater population's prevalence rate. I think this is a good idea, but is worlds apart from from testing everybody that 'wants' it. Worlds apart from testing everybody for asymptomatics and worlds apart from testing everybody for antibodies as part of some 'health passport'.

I hope that they will cross-correlate known virus positives and suggestive histories of transient / mild disease as well when they're enrolling these pilot study participants. It would be a good time to capture this data and compare known virus positives with antibody titer levels. So I hope it's not a truly blind random trial.

BTW, what did the German data show? The serosurveillance there was noted in this article.

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Post #: 5346
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 9:50:10 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8477
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
The Coronavirus Student Loan Relief Programs And Assistance

quote:

Student Loan Payments

The stimulus bill that just passed requires the Department of Education to pause student loan payments, principal, and interest for 6 months, through September 30, 2020, without penalty to the borrower for all federally owned loans. This is automatic - borrowers do not have to request it.

That's a huge benefit for student loan borrowers. No payments for roughly 6 months!

Note: Interest will not capitalize during this time as well.
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It's important to note that this only applies to borrowers with loans held by the Department of Education. This includes all Direct Loans, and Federally-held Perkins loans and FFEL Loans. The easiest way to tell if you have Federally-held Perkins or FFEL loans is to simply login into your loan servicer's website - you'll see your loan payment $0 and interest rate 0% if they are approved loans for this.
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Stopping Collections and Tax Offsets

The Department of Education announced on March 25 that they will be suspending collection activity on student loans - including garnishments, tax offsets, Social Security offsets, and collection activity like phone calls.

If your tax refund happened after the emergency declaration, you will get a refund. If your garnishment happened before the emergency declaration on March 13, it doesn't appear you'll get a refund.

The suspension of collection activities will last until September 30, 2020 right now.


https://thecollegeinvestor.com/33288/quarantine-lockdown-student-loans/

There is information on other loans as well.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5347
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 10:05:53 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25049
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Ethiopia is also teetering on default over a big Chinese funded road project that was supposed to bring tourists to Addis Ababba Disneyland.


Guess which UN agency lately in the news is headed by an Ethiopian whose nomination was advanced by the Chicoms?

Anyone? Anyone?

Angola is in for $20B. Angola? Really? There isn't a chance in Hell they can pay that back.

https://qz.com/africa/1634659/ethiopia-kenya-struggle-with-chinese-debt-over-sgr-railways/



I'll see you and raise you one more from the New York Times, circa May 2017.

Guess which Ethiopian leading a UN agency lately in the news has been associated with covering up several Ethiopian cholera outbreaks?

Anyone? Anyone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html

Evidence for direct culpability is lacking but there sure seems to be some similarities with the current news du jour and how evidence of cholera was then officially viewed.

Alfred


That is what Joe Gannon would call an "M.O'"


Speaking of which...

Flashback: WHO chief revokes appointment of brutal Zimbabwe dictator Robert Mugabe as 'goodwill ambassador' after uproar

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Post #: 5348
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 10:07:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I haven't heard anything about this, but it doesn't seem plausible at first reading. The media would appreciate an opportunity to skewer the president or any department in his orbit. They wouldn't let volume or distractions get in their way. Also, while the government is big and therefore often inefficient or cumbersome or awkward, it seldom does something this openly ridiculous. Most people at least try do their jobs, and those who are going to be underhanded, criminal or grossly incompetent usually try to hide it. Do you know more or can you provide links?



quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The Chicoms KNEW how bad SARS-2 was...so they corner the market on world PPE production and then they turn loose thousands of ambulatory virus reproduction machines on the rest of the world and THEN they sell the same f****** crap back at 16x the original price.

That is PURE evil. There absolutely needs to be global retribution lasting for a couple of generations.

Greed is to be expected in the so-called free trade system where one country corners the market on something and gouges the rest of the world on price - the consumers are free to pay or not buy!

While we are talking about "free market greed", what do you make of the US Federal Government commandeering mask orders that the states had ordered and confirmed, then sending 300,000 of the badly needed masks to NYC, but not to State or Hospital hands, instead to a storage warehouse where private companies could offer them to the highest bidder!
What does the Federal Government get out of that arrangement?
Who controls the company that got control of resale of the masks?
What was the delay in distribution caused by the auctioning process?
Why haven't we seen widespread anger about the whole process? (I suspect it is because the government throws so many distractions at the media that the story can never become something people fixate on).


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5349
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/20/2020 10:13:20 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 8/4/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

@ obvert/Warspite1/Encircled (or other Brits)

Have you lot found a website that provides granular detail across the UK? I'm talking county by county / country by country (including Wales too of course) for Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland? I don't know how to get that stuff from the Worldometers or Covid Tracking Project sites-my 'go to' sites for daily national and state information.
warspite1

I've not been able to find anything that granular - but then we can't even give a total figure of recovered so I'm not surprised....



This Guardian page has been running since the beginning here. When I first checked, my council had one case. Now, Waltham Forest lists 636. This is mostly by county, but includes all London councils.

I'm sure the PHE website has some similar stuff, which is where The Guardian lists this as coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-uk-how-many-cases-are-there-in-my-area


Thanks obvert. From that link, I could get more granular information on Wales, for example.

My hypothesis is that Welsh cases/deaths will look differently than major urban metropolitan areas (e.g., Londinium, Edinburgh, etc.) due to the very different levels of urbanization/population density and so forth.

Looking at the Welsh data, it looks like Wales' COVID-19 mortality peaked over a week ago. Good news that may be useful for determining staggered 're-opening' patterns for your country.





Its something that is fairly straightforward to look at from the perspective of cases. Public Health England are reporting these by Upper Tier Local Authority and you can compare these with the population and population density statistics for the same.

As an example, sorting by population density and taking roughly every 30th administrative district (there are over 400 in UK).

1. Islington. Pop density 16100/sqkm - 2070 cases/million.
5. Lambeth - 12200/sqkm - 3110 cases/million
10. Newham - 9700/sqkm - 2470 cases/m
15. Waltham Forest - 7130/sqkm - 2270 cases/million
22. Portsmouth (highest non London density) - 5330/sqkm - 1070 cases/m
26. Manchester - 4740/sqkm - 1577 cases/m
57. Dudley - 3270/sqkm - 1830/m
87. Stockport - 2315 - 2210
120. Bradford - 1470 - 1057
152. Swindon - 965 - 1280
175. Surrey - 716 - 1650
200. Darlington - 540 - 1700
230. ENGLAND - 430 - 1660
242. Hampshire - 374 - 1560
269. Northamptonshire - 316 - 1180
296. Gloucestershire - 239 - 1480
335. Norfolk - 168 - 1110
350. WALES - 151 - 2400
404. SCOTLAND - 70 - 1550
407. Northumberland - 64 - 1875


The thing to remember with cases is that in England at least basically a case only gets counted when they are hospitalised. I think that might explain some of the difference between England (and its LAs) compared to Wales and Scotland who have devolved health systems and may well be being more proactive in their counting.

Ideally you would look at deaths recorded but this is really hard once you go below country level as these are being reported by NHS trusts which for whatever reason don't correspond with LA boundaries. At a country level we have

England - 430/sqkm - 265 deaths/million
Wales - 151 - 186 deaths/million
Scotland - 70 - 166 deaths/million

So I would be increasing the English case figures by c.50-100% to get a better idea of where we are at from that perspective.

In terms of population densities in the US I have for example

[Edit 2 - have found NY boroughs]

NY boroughs
Manhattan 27000
Brooklyn 13500
Bronx 12500
Queens 8000
Staten Island 3000

NYC districts - All NJ State
Guttenberg 22000
Union City 20000
West NY 19000
Hoboken 15000


Cities
NYC met area 10400
San Francisco 6700

Boston 5100
Chicago 4600
Philadelphia 4300
Miami 4300
Portland 1900
Dallas 1339
Louisville 743

I do wonder if the last 3 are defining their urban area a bit wider?

[edit as the figures I originally had were per square mile not sqare km]

States
New Jersey 470
Maryland 238
Florida 145
California 97
Georgia 68
Texas 40
Missouri 34
Utah 14
South Dakota 4
Alaska 0

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/20/2020 11:28:48 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5350
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 12:36:45 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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Here's the scatter plot of the English figures - to me the relationship between density and cases reported looks to be closer to linear rather than exponential. I no longer have any access to statistics programs like SPSS so that is very much an 'eyeball' evaluation.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/21/2020 12:44:20 AM >

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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 1:31:09 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22747
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Here's the scatter plot of the English figures - to me the relationship between density and cases reported looks to be closer to linear rather than exponential. I no longer have any access to statistics programs like SPSS so that is very much an 'eyeball' evaluation.







Yes, it looks linear. Not very steep either. Probably some of those areas are tied at the hip like Brooklyn and Manhattan. My guess why NY got hit so bad is high usage of crowded public transit.

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 5352
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 1:33:07 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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This is the scatter for the US states I mentioned excluding NY and NJ - (spoiler alert - they make the relationship much more exponential than the English one - I've left them out because they make the plot pretty meaningless visually for everywhere else). To compensate I've included Massachusetts, Connecticut and Illinois.

So the plot looks more exponential. What you don't see though is a dip towards 0 at the lowest densities. So I'd guess that there isn't a low enough population density that could get the R0 below 1 on its own. Given that these figures are in the context of fairly heavy lockdown measures I'd suggest that even in the most sparsely populated states they are at risk of exponential increases in case numbers and subsequently deaths in the absence of some form of continued interventions (whether that be imposed restrictions, compliance to 'unofficial' social distancing measures or targeted testing and/or subsequent contact tracing)






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5353
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 1:36:36 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 311
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Here's the scatter plot of the English figures - to me the relationship between density and cases reported looks to be closer to linear rather than exponential. I no longer have any access to statistics programs like SPSS so that is very much an 'eyeball' evaluation.



Yes, it looks linear. Not very steep either. Probably some of those areas are tied at the hip like Brooklyn and Manhattan. My guess why NY got hit so bad is high usage of crowded public transit.



They are the English figures. [Edit - I think I actually get where you are coming from - the London boroughs - and equivalent areas in NY - are most likely 'feeding' each other. So it is not just a matter of being densely populated in isolation but also neighbouring to other similarly dense areas].

I only have the numbers to do the US state by state - as above NY and to a lesser extent NJ are such outliers that they make the rest of the plot meaningless.

If anyone wants me to post the plot for States < 150/sqkm to illustrate the point about there being no apparent 'drop off' towards 0 I can do so. For the moment I don't want to clog up the thread with more ugly graphs

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/21/2020 1:46:37 AM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5354
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 1:41:21 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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Bild takes it to Xi.

Glad to see it isn't only right of center US media getting worked up.

quote:

"You [Xi], your government and your scientists had to know long ago that coronavirus is highly infectious, but you left the world in the dark about it. Your top experts didn't respond when Western researchers asked to know what was going on in Wuhan. You were too proud and too nationalistic to tell the truth, which you felt was a national disgrace,” wrote Julian Reichelt, editor-in-chief of Germany’s largest paper, Bild, which had questioned if China “should pay for the massive economic damage the coronavirus is inflicting worldwide.”

Reichelt added: “You rule by surveillance. You wouldn't be president without surveillance. You monitor everything, every citizen, but you refuse to monitor the diseased wet markets in your country. You shut down every newspaper and website that is critical of your rule, but not the stalls where bat soup is sold. You are not only monitoring your people, you are endangering them – and with them, the rest of the world.”

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Post #: 5355
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 2:15:23 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2147
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Bild takes it to Xi.

Glad to see it isn't only right of center US media getting worked up.

quote:

"You [Xi], your government and your scientists had to know long ago that coronavirus is highly infectious, but you left the world in the dark about it. Your top experts didn't respond when Western researchers asked to know what was going on in Wuhan. You were too proud and too nationalistic to tell the truth, which you felt was a national disgrace,” wrote Julian Reichelt, editor-in-chief of Germany’s largest paper, Bild, which had questioned if China “should pay for the massive economic damage the coronavirus is inflicting worldwide.”

Reichelt added: “You rule by surveillance. You wouldn't be president without surveillance. You monitor everything, every citizen, but you refuse to monitor the diseased wet markets in your country. You shut down every newspaper and website that is critical of your rule, but not the stalls where bat soup is sold. You are not only monitoring your people, you are endangering them – and with them, the rest of the world.”



Excellent. The Chicoms need to pay bigly for this. Also, while they thought nobody was looking, they arrested a bunch of pro-democracy figures in Hong Kong last weekend.

The current president in Korea just had his position solidified in the election last week, which is unfortunate since he sure looks like a toady to Xi. You won't see a lot of pushback against the Chicoms from this direction. That said, Korean companies have been slowly and quietly disengaging from China since China retaliated against them (and K-Pop bands--the horror) for Korea allowing the U.S. to put a THAAD battery on a Lotte golf course in 2016.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

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(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5356
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 5:02:17 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6288
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Bild takes it to Xi.

Glad to see it isn't only right of center US media getting worked up.

quote:

"You [Xi], your government and your scientists had to know long ago that coronavirus is highly infectious, but you left the world in the dark about it. Your top experts didn't respond when Western researchers asked to know what was going on in Wuhan. You were too proud and too nationalistic to tell the truth, which you felt was a national disgrace,” wrote Julian Reichelt, editor-in-chief of Germany’s largest paper, Bild, which had questioned if China “should pay for the massive economic damage the coronavirus is inflicting worldwide.”

Reichelt added: “You rule by surveillance. You wouldn't be president without surveillance. You monitor everything, every citizen, but you refuse to monitor the diseased wet markets in your country. You shut down every newspaper and website that is critical of your rule, but not the stalls where bat soup is sold. You are not only monitoring your people, you are endangering them – and with them, the rest of the world.”



Come on Cap, you left the best parts out.

This is the full letter from the Editor in Chief of Bild

https://www.bild.de/politik/international/bild-international/bild-chief-editor-responds-to-the-chinese-president-70098436.bild.html



17.04.2020 - 14:27 Uhr


Dear President Xi Jinping

Your embassy in Berlin has addressed me in an open letter because we asked in our newspaper BILD whether China should pay for the massive economic damage the corona virus is inflicting worldwide.





Let me respond:

1. You rule by surveillance. You wouldn't be president without surveillance. You monitor everything, every citizen, but you refuse to monitor the diseased wet markets in your country.

You shut down every newspaper and website that is critical of your rule, but not the stalls where bat soup is sold. You are not only monitoring your people, you are endangering them – and with them, the rest of the world.

2. Surveillance is a denial of freedom. And a nation that is not free, is not creative. A nation that is not innovative, does not invent anything . This is why you have made your country the world champion in intellectual property theft.

China enriches itself with the inventions of others, instead of inventing on its own. The reason China does not innovate and invent is that you don't let the young people in your country think freely. China’s greatest export hit (that nobody wanted to have, but which has nevertheless gone around the world) is Corona.

3. You, your government and your scientists had to know long ago that Corona is highly infectious, but you left the world in the dark about it. Your top experts didn't respond when Western researchers asked to know what was going on in Wuhan.

You were too proud and too nationalistic to tell the truth, which you felt was a national disgrace.

4. The "Washington Post" reports that your laboratories in Wuhan have been researching corona viruses in bats, but without maintaining the highest safety standards. Why are your toxic laboratories not as secure as your prisons for political prisoners?

Would you like to explain this to the grieving widows, daughters, sons, husbands, parents of Corona victims all over the world?

5. In your country, your people are whispering about you. Your power is crumbling. You have created an inscrutable, non-transparent China. Before Corona, China was known as a surveillance state. Now, China is known as a surveillance state that infected the world with a deadly disease.

That is your political legacy.

Your embassy tells me that I am not living up to the "traditional friendship of our peoples.” I suppose you consider it a great "friendship" when you now generously send masks around the world. This isn’t friendship, I would call it imperialism hidden behind a smile – a Trojan Horse.

You plan to strengthen China through a plague that you exported. You will not succeed. Corona will be your political end, sooner or later.

Yours sincerely

Julian Reichelt




Mutti will not be pleased. Bear in mind that Bild is not held in high regard by all Germans.

Alfred





(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5357
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 5:06:03 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15645
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't heard anything about this, but it doesn't seem plausible at first reading. The media would appreciate an opportunity to skewer the president or any department in his orbit. They wouldn't let volume or distractions get in their way. Also, while the government is big and therefore often inefficient or cumbersome or awkward, it seldom does something this openly ridiculous. Most people at least try do their jobs, and those who are going to be underhanded, criminal or grossly incompetent usually try to hide it. Do you know more or can you provide links?



quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The Chicoms KNEW how bad SARS-2 was...so they corner the market on world PPE production and then they turn loose thousands of ambulatory virus reproduction machines on the rest of the world and THEN they sell the same f****** crap back at 16x the original price.

That is PURE evil. There absolutely needs to be global retribution lasting for a couple of generations.

Greed is to be expected in the so-called free trade system where one country corners the market on something and gouges the rest of the world on price - the consumers are free to pay or not buy!

While we are talking about "free market greed", what do you make of the US Federal Government commandeering mask orders that the states had ordered and confirmed, then sending 300,000 of the badly needed masks to NYC, but not to State or Hospital hands, instead to a storage warehouse where private companies could offer them to the highest bidder!
What does the Federal Government get out of that arrangement?
Who controls the company that got control of resale of the masks?
What was the delay in distribution caused by the auctioning process?
Why haven't we seen widespread anger about the whole process? (I suspect it is because the government throws so many distractions at the media that the story can never become something people fixate on).



It started with the April 2 news conference in which VP Pence talked about sending the 200,000 N95 masks (not 300K as I misremembered) to NYC and then later in the news conference mentioned the shipment would go to a warehouse in NYC to be sold off. I searched for that part of the news conference but I am shut out of most US newspapers (they want subscribers) and the clips I did find cut off before the reporters questions that revealed the warehouse situation. Jared Kushner was somehow involved in arranging the transfer.

Governor Cuomo talked about it in one of his briefing and it was covered on some news channels. I also searched for his briefings around that time but it may have been a question from a reporter not during his formal briefing. I remember him being incensed that the President and VP were saying they were giving NY 200K masks but in fact the masks were going to a warehouse for resale.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5358
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 7:30:42 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14046
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus antibody testing begins in NY, may be key to reopening country
Updated 8:22 AM


https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-antibody-testing-begins-in-ny-may-be-key-to-reopening-country.html


"Cuomo said 3,000 people across the state will randomly receive tests from the state Department of Health to detect for the presence of antibodies. The statistical sample will help determine what percent of the population may have been exposed to the virus.

“That will tell us, for the first time, what percent of the population actually has had the coronavirus and is now, at least short-term, immune to the virus,” he said Sunday. “This will be the first true snapshot of what we’re dealing with.”"


Exactly


Please note the extremely small sample size and the needed extrapolation towards the greater population's prevalence rate. I think this is a good idea, but is worlds apart from from testing everybody that 'wants' it. Worlds apart from testing everybody for asymptomatics and worlds apart from testing everybody for antibodies as part of some 'health passport'.

I hope that they will cross-correlate known virus positives and suggestive histories of transient / mild disease as well when they're enrolling these pilot study participants. It would be a good time to capture this data and compare known virus positives with antibody titer levels. So I hope it's not a truly blind random trial.

BTW, what did the German data show? The serosurveillance there was noted in this article.


As I've been advocating, a big enough sample size taken from a representative demographic can start giving an idea of overall infection rates in various populations. If it's smart and targeted, random within chosen constraints, then it can be repeated for verification, compared with other "hotspot area" and eventually used statistically with more confidence.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5359
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 9:39:20 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I can't find anything out there close to the scale you're describing from memory, BBfanboy.

There is a WSJ article about a sale of a supposed "small shipment" in early February. See below and link here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-coronavirus-concern-building-world-wide-u-s-sold-off-n95-masks-11585606957

There is a piece from another media outlet about the open market driving up prices, including quotes from Governor Cuomo (the source is ProPublica, which I'm not familiar with but it holds itself out as "holding those in power accountable"): https://www.propublica.org/article/in-desperation-new-york-state-pays-up-to-15-times-the-normal-price-for-medical-equipment

And there is this story about NYC auctioning off older model ventilators and masks years ago and apparently not replacing them. This source is "The City," an NYC media outlet that I'm unfamiliar with: https://thecity.nyc/2020/04/nycs-ventilator-stockpile-was-auctioned-before-coronavirus.html

I can't find anything along the lines of what you described yesterday. As noted then it seems highly unlikely that the media would ignore an abuse of the magnitude you described. This is a serious allegation, so I'd want better documentation before accepting it as factual.






quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't heard anything about this, but it doesn't seem plausible at first reading. The media would appreciate an opportunity to skewer the president or any department in his orbit. They wouldn't let volume or distractions get in their way. Also, while the government is big and therefore often inefficient or cumbersome or awkward, it seldom does something this openly ridiculous. Most people at least try do their jobs, and those who are going to be underhanded, criminal or grossly incompetent usually try to hide it. Do you know more or can you provide links?



quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The Chicoms KNEW how bad SARS-2 was...so they corner the market on world PPE production and then they turn loose thousands of ambulatory virus reproduction machines on the rest of the world and THEN they sell the same f****** crap back at 16x the original price.

That is PURE evil. There absolutely needs to be global retribution lasting for a couple of generations.

Greed is to be expected in the so-called free trade system where one country corners the market on something and gouges the rest of the world on price - the consumers are free to pay or not buy!

While we are talking about "free market greed", what do you make of the US Federal Government commandeering mask orders that the states had ordered and confirmed, then sending 300,000 of the badly needed masks to NYC, but not to State or Hospital hands, instead to a storage warehouse where private companies could offer them to the highest bidder!
What does the Federal Government get out of that arrangement?
Who controls the company that got control of resale of the masks?
What was the delay in distribution caused by the auctioning process?
Why haven't we seen widespread anger about the whole process? (I suspect it is because the government throws so many distractions at the media that the story can never become something people fixate on).



It started with the April 2 news conference in which VP Pence talked about sending the 200,000 N95 masks (not 300K as I misremembered) to NYC and then later in the news conference mentioned the shipment would go to a warehouse in NYC to be sold off. I searched for that part of the news conference but I am shut out of most US newspapers (they want subscribers) and the clips I did find cut off before the reporters questions that revealed the warehouse situation. Jared Kushner was somehow involved in arranging the transfer.

Governor Cuomo talked about it in one of his briefing and it was covered on some news channels. I also searched for his briefings around that time but it may have been a question from a reporter not during his formal briefing. I remember him being incensed that the President and VP were saying they were giving NY 200K masks but in fact the masks were going to a warehouse for resale.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/21/2020 9:41:21 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5360
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 10:37:55 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
An example of a misleading headline from NY Times and MSN.

When I read it this morning, I thought, "Darn, new outbreaks in these states, just as they're taking action to ease restrictions?" Other readers may draw the same conclusion. Some of those won't bother to read the article to learn that the headline is misleading. They'll accept it as fact, given it comes from a reputable source, and pass the word along as such.

The article addresses easing of measures in these states and a few others, but the hot spots discussed are in Ohio and Massachusetts, with one vague reference to workplace outbreak in Tennessee. There aren't mentions of hot spots in Georgia or South Carolina. That's an example of telling the truth but not the whole truth in such a way that the presentation is misleading.

On a separate note, I was surprised that states will soon begin easing some countermeasures. I'd expected another week or ten days.

Georgia's actions are limited, opening some venues but keeping many restrictions in place. It should be instructive to see how this goes here, and other states will be able to learn from Georgia's successes or failures. Ditto easing elsewhere in the US and in Europe.

In the short term, it'll be interesting to see if Univ. of Washington adjusts mortality projections upward for states easing countermeasures.






Attachment (2)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/21/2020 1:46:11 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5361
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 10:44:35 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8477
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus antibody testing begins in NY, may be key to reopening country
Updated 8:22 AM


https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-antibody-testing-begins-in-ny-may-be-key-to-reopening-country.html


"Cuomo said 3,000 people across the state will randomly receive tests from the state Department of Health to detect for the presence of antibodies. The statistical sample will help determine what percent of the population may have been exposed to the virus.

“That will tell us, for the first time, what percent of the population actually has had the coronavirus and is now, at least short-term, immune to the virus,” he said Sunday. “This will be the first true snapshot of what we’re dealing with.”"


Exactly


Please note the extremely small sample size and the needed extrapolation towards the greater population's prevalence rate. I think this is a good idea, but is worlds apart from from testing everybody that 'wants' it. Worlds apart from testing everybody for asymptomatics and worlds apart from testing everybody for antibodies as part of some 'health passport'.

I hope that they will cross-correlate known virus positives and suggestive histories of transient / mild disease as well when they're enrolling these pilot study participants. It would be a good time to capture this data and compare known virus positives with antibody titer levels. So I hope it's not a truly blind random trial.

BTW, what did the German data show? The serosurveillance there was noted in this article.


As I've been advocating, a big enough sample size taken from a representative demographic can start giving an idea of overall infection rates in various populations. If it's smart and targeted, random within chosen constraints, then it can be repeated for verification, compared with other "hotspot area" and eventually used statistically with more confidence.


The problem that I see with the mass testing is that you are only getting a snapshot of who has been infected with a corona virus, not which variety. My understanding is that the test does not differentiate between the virus that causes CoViD-19 or other corona viruses which may not give immunity to the one in question.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5362
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 10:47:42 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 8477
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Alfred,

Mutti may not be pleased and the Bild may not be held in that high a regard by some but the thought is out there. Some people may not remember the source but the thought.

Joe

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5363
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 10:53:00 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22747
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Mario Cuomo hates Trump. Cuomo launched a NY State investigation with the explicit purpose of getting Trump's tax returns. CNN hates Trump. Fredo Cuomo at CNN hates Trump. It's a damily thing. The only things missing are cars blowing up in Sicily and fat guys with girots.

Is it inefficient to have state buyers bidding against FEMA? Sure. Is it some scheme to get rich? No. It's thousands of government bureaucrats trying to do what their bosses told them to do. Cuomo also demanded 20,000 vents and they gave him 8000. He complained about that too. Turns out FEMA was right. If his job was to boost up the morale of New Yorkers and hit Trump you would have to say he was successful. There is quite a strong draft Cuomo movement among the Dems.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5364
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 11:25:29 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22747
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Everyone has seen a city road crew. 8 guys standing around waiting for the inspector and maybe the Mexican guy is sweeping up.

The N-95 masks been a WORLDWIDE problem. Simply put there were nowhere near enough masks in inventory and there was no hope for production to meet the demand in the short run. FEMA had a plan to have ONE BILLION N-95 masks in inventory. We blew through them in 2009 with H1N1 and the inventory was never replenished. That was 11 years ago. In that time you would have had to throw away perhaps 2 billion expired masks. As for vents. It seems FEMA has managed to avoid the worst disaster but it was too close. Same deal with vents back in 2009. Nobody sent the vents back to FEMA. Hospitals sold them. Same deal with vents. They need to be maintained. O-rings, plastic parts, pressure checks, even the electronics. Very expensive proposition. It never even occurred to me before that there would be a national reserve of ventilators. I think everyone now sees the importance.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5365
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 11:37:38 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22747
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I went to a burn conference in January. You would NOT BELIEVE how expensive those products and technologies are. Very intensive care for weeks or months with specialized training and equipment. A city of 200,000 might have two 5 bed burn ICU's.

You think we weren't ready for a global viral pandemic? A single North Korean nuke exploded at 5000 feet over Honolulu on a cloudless day and every burn unit in the US would be overwhelmed. A lot of stuff to keep FEMA up at night.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5366
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 11:47:38 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6288
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

... while they thought nobody was looking, they arrested a bunch of pro-democracy figures in Hong Kong last weekend...



You overlooked something else done last weekend. China has just created 2 new administrative districts in the Paracel and Spratly islands.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/vietnam-protests-beijings-expansion-in-disputed-south-china-sea/12165646

This action has far longer term ramifications than the Hong Kong arrests for it represents outright de facto annexation. It moves the South China Sea conflict from one over internationally disputed islands to one over established sovereign Chinese land. At least that is the legal narrative China will present to any legal challenge made under the Law of the Sea rules.

Alfred


(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 5367
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 11:52:19 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22747
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
I was assigned by the medical group to go to a conference presented by the CDC on CW and biological warfare. HORY CRAP! That s*** makes COVID seem like a diaper rash. FEMA has big inventories of Doxycycline and Cipro all over for anthrax. I asked the speaker where they were and she laughed at me. If we are ever attacked by weaponized anthrax it ma be the only ones left are teenage girls taking Doxy for acne and everyone on Cirpo for a UTI.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5368
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 11:53:28 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Coronavirus antibody testing begins in NY, may be key to reopening country
Updated 8:22 AM


https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-antibody-testing-begins-in-ny-may-be-key-to-reopening-country.html


"Cuomo said 3,000 people across the state will randomly receive tests from the state Department of Health to detect for the presence of antibodies. The statistical sample will help determine what percent of the population may have been exposed to the virus.

“That will tell us, for the first time, what percent of the population actually has had the coronavirus and is now, at least short-term, immune to the virus,” he said Sunday. “This will be the first true snapshot of what we’re dealing with.”"


Exactly


Please note the extremely small sample size and the needed extrapolation towards the greater population's prevalence rate. I think this is a good idea, but is worlds apart from from testing everybody that 'wants' it. Worlds apart from testing everybody for asymptomatics and worlds apart from testing everybody for antibodies as part of some 'health passport'.

I hope that they will cross-correlate known virus positives and suggestive histories of transient / mild disease as well when they're enrolling these pilot study participants. It would be a good time to capture this data and compare known virus positives with antibody titer levels. So I hope it's not a truly blind random trial.

BTW, what did the German data show? The serosurveillance there was noted in this article.


As I've been advocating, a big enough sample size taken from a representative demographic can start giving an idea of overall infection rates in various populations. If it's smart and targeted, random within chosen constraints, then it can be repeated for verification, compared with other "hotspot area" and eventually used statistically with more confidence.



From Briebart this morning:

L.A. County Study: Coronavirus Outbreak Up to 55 Times More Widespread, Less Deadly than Predicted

The novel coronavirus has infected roughly 4.1 percent of the population in California’s Los Angeles County, suggesting the region’s outbreak is far more widespread than previously thought, between 28 and 55 times higher than the number of confirmed cases, new research shows, echoing the findings of a similar study elsewhere in the state.

However, the new data, if accurate, also indicates that the coronavirus death rate in L.A. County, the most populous in the country, is lower than initially predicted. Researchers from the University of Southern California (USC) and the L.A. Department of Public Health gleaned the data from antibody testing of about 863 county residents. Antibodies are an indication that an individual’s immune system has responded to a past infection.

On Monday, CNBC reported:

USC and the health department released preliminary study results that found that roughly 4.1% of the county’s adult population has antibodies to the coronavirus, estimating that between 221,000 adults to 442,000 adults in the county have had the infection.

This new estimate is 28 to 55 times higher than the 7,994 confirmed cases of Covid-19 [coronavirus illness] reported to the county in early April. The number of coronavirus-related deaths in the county has now surpassed 600, according to the Department of Public Health. The data, if correct, would mean that the county’s fatality rate is lower than originally thought.

Link to the article: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/20/l-a-county-study-coronavirus-outbreak-up-to-55-times-more-widespread-less-deadly-than-predicted/

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 5369
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/21/2020 11:55:13 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22747
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

... while they thought nobody was looking, they arrested a bunch of pro-democracy figures in Hong Kong last weekend...



You overlooked something else done last weekend. China has just created 2 new administrative districts in the Paracel and Spratly islands.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/vietnam-protests-beijings-expansion-in-disputed-south-china-sea/12165646

This action has far longer term ramifications than the Hong Kong arrests for it represents outright de facto annexation. It moves the South China Sea conflict from one over internationally disputed islands to one over established sovereign Chinese land. At least that is the legal narrative China will present to any legal challenge made under the Law of the Sea rules.

Alfred




That's why the USN does drive bys.

Kim just had heart surgery. Putin is a tin pot dictator. Xi is the real menace.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5370
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