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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 5:53:21 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14031
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.


This is uncalled for. I hope we're not trying to keep out people who have differing views on subjects here. I hope this is a place where challenging someone's ideas, assumptions, conclusions, is part of a healthy dialogue.

Statements like this do not lend themselves to a healthy dialogue formed from differing backgrounds and positions.

_____________________________

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Post #: 3331
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 8:54:42 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 2553
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


Liquor Store: Staff that usually rush up to help you choose a wine (I buy the higher quality stuff with the bigger markup) stayed well back and did not offer help since I knew where I wanted to look. Lines painted on the floor near the tills to mark distancing boxes. Cashiers did not handle bottles I touched nor my Air Miles and Credit Card. I bagged the goods myself.



Thais how it is down my way... but ... the panic buyers have eased off, and the supermarkets are now reasonably stocked again. Except for pasta and flour, for some reason.

On the other hand, the state government has withdrawn the directive that you can only spend 30 minutes at the hairdresser's. Which has little personal relevance, it takes the lads less than 10 minutes to give me a 2/1.


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Ian R

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Post #: 3332
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 8:57:12 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 2553
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
Status: offline
Graph looks good.



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Ian R

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Post #: 3333
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 9:20:57 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.


This is uncalled for. I hope we're not trying to keep out people who have differing views on subjects here. I hope this is a place where challenging someone's ideas, assumptions, conclusions, is part of a healthy dialogue.

Statements like this do not lend themselves to a healthy dialogue formed from differing backgrounds and positions.


Where is CR's vaunted attempts to make the discussion apolitical and call out inappropriate language now?

Evidently not required seeing as I have been deemed a persona non grata by the thought police.

Pol Pot & Mao, I seem to have touched a nerve


< Message edited by mind_messing -- 4/5/2020 11:22:33 AM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3334
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 10:11:36 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14031
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.


This is uncalled for. I hope we're not trying to keep out people who have differing views on subjects here. I hope this is a place where challenging someone's ideas, assumptions, conclusions, is part of a healthy dialogue.

Statements like this do not lend themselves to a healthy dialogue formed from differing backgrounds and positions.


Where is Cars vaunted attempts to make the discussion apolitical and call out inappropriate language now?

Evidently not required seeing as I have been deemed a persona non grata by the thought police.

Pol Pot & Mao, I seem to have touched a nerve



I know you're unaffected by this kind of playground name-calling mind_messing, but it's especially difficult in an international context to bring historically American red-scare McCarthyism tactics into an open forum centered around learning and sharing about a crisis we're all trying to negotiate and have dialogue around.

Exactly on point. Where are the voices calling to keep politics out here?

If I happen to believe in a different system of thought or philosophy to a select few vocal people on this forum should I not contribute? Am I not welcome? Is there an old guard that decides who can play and who can't?

_____________________________

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Post #: 3335
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 10:20:36 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14031
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Of course there aren't enough tests to simultaneously test 1/3rd of billion people. There aren't enough medical people to COLLECT 1/3rd of billion tests or enough laboratory techs to RUN 1/3rd of billion tests or enough medical people to give results and advice to 1/3rd of a billion people.

Suppose you test 1/3rd of a billion people on Saturday and you have a million lab couriers to take the tests to the lab and a million techs running 330 labs each and everyone shows up to work on time and works on nothing else so it's all done by 2 PM and now you need 10 million nurses and doctors to call all 330 million and everyone HAS a phone and ANSWERS their phone (even the illegal aliens of which there are 20 million) and when they answer you need translators for Hmong and Que-Che and Cantonese and Swahili etc.

Now you have 35 million positives and you have to counsel them and tell them to stay home which they have already been advised to do...WHEW! Now, on Sunday, you only have 300 million to retest because some of them will have converted during the night....and there you go again.

The only practical way to measure incidence in a prospective fashion in a large population with many asymptomatic cases is with a sizable careful random sample.

In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.


He probably has a mural of Chairman Mao plus Pol Pot on the ceiling of his bedroom.


Somehow I missed this one. You too? Are we back in the 50s?

One of my best friends and someone I respect immensely is the grandson of Edward R Murrow. He had a few things to say about this;

“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men – not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular”
― Edward R. Murrow

_____________________________

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Post #: 3336
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 11:02:32 AM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
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Did Bill Gates Just Reveal the Reason Behind the Lock-Downs?
Apr 4, 2020


https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/04/did-bill-gates-just-reveal-the-reason-behind-the-lock-downs/


"On March 24 Bill Gates gave a highly revelatory 50-minute interview (above) to Chris Anderson. Anderson is the Curator of TED, the non-profit that runs the TED Talks."

""It appears that rather than let the population be exposed to the virus and most develop antibodies that give them natural, long-lasting immunity to COVID-19, Gates and his colleagues far prefer to create a vast, hugely expensive, new system of manufacturing and selling billions of test kits, and in parallel very quickly developing and selling billions of antivirals and vaccines." "

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(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3337
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 11:11:57 AM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/22/2012
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline
Here's a very interesting 33 min interview/discussion of CV-19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UO3Wd5urg0

from the Hoover Institution; the interviewee works at Stanford.


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 3338
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 11:26:38 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.


This is uncalled for. I hope we're not trying to keep out people who have differing views on subjects here. I hope this is a place where challenging someone's ideas, assumptions, conclusions, is part of a healthy dialogue.

Statements like this do not lend themselves to a healthy dialogue formed from differing backgrounds and positions.


Where is Cars vaunted attempts to make the discussion apolitical and call out inappropriate language now?

Evidently not required seeing as I have been deemed a persona non grata by the thought police.

Pol Pot & Mao, I seem to have touched a nerve



I know you're unaffected by this kind of playground name-calling mind_messing, but it's especially difficult in an international context to bring historically American red-scare McCarthyism tactics into an open forum centered around learning and sharing about a crisis we're all trying to negotiate and have dialogue around.

Exactly on point. Where are the voices calling to keep politics out here?

If I happen to believe in a different system of thought or philosophy to a select few vocal people on this forum should I not contribute? Am I not welcome? Is there an old guard that decides who can play and who can't?


That should be evident, sadly...

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3339
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 12:19:55 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
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Obvert, please step back and take a deep breath. It isn't dissent that is being challenged or shut down.

It's snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that are being rightfully attacked.

I expect the next moderator visit here will result in a lock now that the efforts at antagonism on the part of one bad apple have borne fruit.



< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/5/2020 12:20:19 PM >


_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 3340
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 12:37:13 PM   
btd64


Posts: 7269
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Obvert, please step back and take a deep breath. It isn't dissent that is being challenged or shut down.

It's snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that are being rightfully attacked.

I expect the next moderator visit here will result in a lock now that the efforts at antagonism on the part of one bad apple have borne fruit.




Some people just can't play nice and stick to the rules....GP

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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 3341
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 12:52:13 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Obvert, please step back and take a deep breath. It isn't dissent that is being challenged or shut down.

It's snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that are being rightfully attacked.

I expect the next moderator visit here will result in a lock now that the efforts at antagonism on the part of one bad apple have borne fruit.




It absolutely is dissent that is being shut down, suggesting that it is otherwise is clearly not the case.

As for the snarky innuendo and backhanded insults that you are so righteous in attacking, where is your response to the outright, open and inflammatory insults directed at me? Is your righteousness contingent on other factors?

Obvert is absolutely right in what he says.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 3342
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 12:53:07 PM   
RangerJoe


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Joined: 11/16/2015
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Bad News Wrapped in Protein: Inside the Coronavirus Genome
April 3, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/science/coronavirus-genome-bad-news-wrapped-in-protein.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab

_____________________________

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 3343
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 1:04:35 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I am aware that there's a lot of squishiness out there, especially here. The numbers of how many have died in MO and which county the cases apply to keeps changing, as an example. The JH numbers contain a lot of "unassigned" confirmed cases for States where they haven't determined what jurisdiction within the state to apply them to, and when stuff like that is happening are mistakes made such as counting the same case twice or two cases as one, does that ever happen? Yep.


So you've grasped one of the core problems. If there's that degree of "squishiness" in the US, imagine that on a global scale.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Of course there aren't enough tests to simultaneously test 1/3rd of billion people. There aren't enough medical people to COLLECT 1/3rd of billion tests or enough laboratory techs to RUN 1/3rd of billion tests or enough medical people to give results and advice to 1/3rd of a billion people.

Suppose you test 1/3rd of a billion people on Saturday and you have a million lab couriers to take the tests to the lab and a million techs running 330 labs each and everyone shows up to work on time and works on nothing else so it's all done by 2 PM and now you need 10 million nurses and doctors to call all 330 million and everyone HAS a phone and ANSWERS their phone (even the illegal aliens of which there are 20 million) and when they answer you need translators for Hmong and Que-Che and Cantonese and Swahili etc.

Now you have 35 million positives and you have to counsel them and tell them to stay home which they have already been advised to do...WHEW! Now, on Sunday, you only have 300 million to retest because some of them will have converted during the night....and there you go again.

The only practical way to measure incidence in a prospective fashion in a large population with many asymptomatic cases is with a sizable careful random sample.

In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.


Yes, thank you for that helpful addition to the discussion. Setting the example for behaviour that you expect others to follow?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

While emergency services and health care professionals and myriad other support folks fight this long battle, I was fortunate to spend the day outdoors in the northwest Georgia mountains.

I hiked six miles of the Pinhoti Trail, topping out on Horn Mountain and dropping to Snake Creek Gap. The birds and flowers were showing their stuff. Then I bicycled back to the truck via lovely mountain roads.

There were a zillion people using the trails and roads - bicyclists, motorcyclists, motorists, hikers, families, couples, individuals. More than I've ever seen in that remote area. All keeping their distance from others, as best I could tell.

On the long climb up the mountain, an army medic (reserve or National Guard probably) was in the midst of a training hike, wearing fatigues and with full pack. He was fatigued and said that, when he got home, he would sit naked in his apartment and drink beer for the balance of the weekend. I thanked him for his service and told him that was too much information. He was a nice young man.


So, in short, you and a "zillion" other people were acting against professional medical advice.

Smart. Really clever. Other nations in a similar position are in lockdowns of various severity, but not Northwestern Georgia. They're the exception, right?

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 3344
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 1:29:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
This has been a great thread, doing exactly what I had hoped. We've gotten a lot of great information from a lot of people everywhere. We've had people with particular expertise weigh in with their own thoughts. There are differences of opinion but mostly folks get along and self-regulate. I've taken thoughts posted in here by John Dillworth, Obvert, RFalvo, Chickenboy, Cap Mandrake and shared them with my family, both in writing and in conversation. This is an excellent community. In person, I believe everyone here would be most gracious to everybody else. Without exception.

I've known many of the people in here for years. Over that time, most of them have built up tremendous deposits of good will. If they've said the wrong thing in here, from time, to time, those can be overlooked (mostly, usually) because they have such established records. That's happened a few times.

There is one person in here who overdrew his account of good will seriously. He's made the atmosphere poisonous. He's provoked other members to various expressions of outrage or leaving. I've seen people who have never had a discouraging word become uncharacteristically miffed at him, but it's not them. It's him. He's the poison.

And he has his enablers. While most people in here say what they think, there is one who tells others what to think. He cloaks his words in "I want to build bridges" while doing his work and tearing them down. When he gets things absolutely, demonstratively wrong, he slips away in the dark. Always, 100% of the time, refuses to acknowledge a mistake.

There is one other that internalizes things and sees boogeymen where there aren't any. A few days ago, he posted that it was an age thing for me; that I was picking on him and others because of generational matters, which isn't true. Until that moment, I had no idea how old he was. From the context of his comment, I now suppose he's in his 30s or 40s but for all I knew, until then, he was my age or 20 or 80. Another fellow I know pretty well is, I think, in his late 40s, but's that's my age (or so I think). The poisoner is comparatively younger based on a comment he made a year ago in another thread, but I'm not sure. It doesn't matter.

Or is there some component to generational things that explains the behavior of these three? Is that why the poisoner and his enablers insist on keeping everything public? Is that why they refused every request to keep this private or take matters private? Is this a Facebook way of doing things? (Probably not - there are undoubtedly a bunch of folks in here, younger and older, who use Facebook but don't act this way.)

I have the poisoner on Ignore and it's worked pretty well - not perfectly, but well. I'm adding his two enablers. They've seriously drawn on their stock of goodwill. Not overdrawn though. I'll be glad to discuss things privately with them at length, in depth. Always have been.

Every person in here is a good man in person, I believe. Even the one who poisoned this thread.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/5/2020 2:07:20 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 3345
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 1:40:03 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1910
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline
This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480



_____________________________


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Post #: 3346
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 1:45:53 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1910
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Signed up to be an NHS volunteer last week.

Got my confirmation through so will be "on call" for transport related issues on Monday.

I used to work for the NHS and absolutely it was the most boring job I have ever had! Sure as hell its not going to be at the moment.

I hope they are going to have the PPE for you and train you in whatever new protocols they are using before they send you out!


Christ no, I'll just be delivering prescriptions and stuff I think. Hopefully I get some hand sanitizer to disinfect after every delivery but that will be all I need.



_____________________________


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Post #: 3347
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:13:26 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480





< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/5/2020 2:14:49 PM >

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 3348
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:23:05 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1910
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.





I hope you are right Canoerebel, but have you got a nationwide shut down yet?

Look, the UK have messed up big style by following the wrong path for two weeks, but at least we changed it when it became horrifying obvious that thousands more would die.

But people on here are blaming China, when they really should be looking at a lot closer to home on why this is spiralling out of control.






_____________________________


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Post #: 3349
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:34:35 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 862
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480







Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html

_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3350
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:38:19 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1910
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480







Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html



Yup. If you watch Fox News (not saying you do btw!) then you would have a totally different view to the crisis.

You might think that going to church is still ok for example.

_____________________________


(in reply to durnedwolf)
Post #: 3351
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:40:09 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Durned Wolf, I was referring to a similar post made yesterday about Georgia which was shown to be false by the actual provisions of the Georgia ordinance. The nationwide press has been getting it wrong. I'm not sure how many states allow religious services but I don't think many places actually are even if permitted to.

Nationwide decrees or statewide decrees may not be necessary when local jurisdictions act promptly, as they mostly have in the US. They have their fingers on the pulse of what's going. As noted in here, Georgia shut down it's schools three weeks ago, ahead of England. With a few exceptions, I think our federal system has worked pretty well.

Other countries are comparatively small, size wise, and one-decree-fits-all may work well there. Culturally, I'm sure England and many other countries tend to act as a nation. The US is much larger, so that what works best for New York may not for Nevada; and what is needed in Oklahoma City may not be needed in the Panhandle. We're accustomed in the US to doing it that way and it seems to be working pretty well here.

I'm not saying others should do it our way; I am saying that what works in your neck of the woods may not suit us.


quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480







Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/5/2020 2:45:14 PM >

(in reply to durnedwolf)
Post #: 3352
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:47:19 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
The Fox News thing is a misconception.

I've never seen Fox News (not once, ever) but many people I know have. These are the people who acted locally to close schools and churches and impose strict local guidelines.

If Fox News viewers are prone to mistakes, so are the viewers of CNN and other networks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled


quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480







Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html



Yup. If you watch Fox News (not saying you do btw!) then you would have a totally different view to the crisis.

You might think that going to church is still ok for example.


(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 3353
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:49:18 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This has been a great thread, doing exactly what I had hoped. We've gotten a lot of great information from a lot of people everywhere. We've had people with particular expertise weigh in with their own thoughts. There are differences of opinion but mostly folks get along and self-regulate. I've taken thoughts posted in here by John Dillworth, Obvert, RFalvo, Chickenboy, Cap Mandrake and shared them with my family, both in writing and in conversation. This is an excellent community. In person, I believe everyone here would be most gracious to everybody else. Without exception.

I've known many of the people in here for years. Over that time, most of them have built up tremendous deposits of good will. If they've said the wrong thing in here, from time, to time, those can be overlooked (mostly, usually) because they have such established records. That's happened a few times.

There is one person in here who overdrew his account of good will seriously. He's made the atmosphere poisonous. He's provoked other members to various expressions of outrage or leaving. I've seen people who have never had a discouraging word become uncharacteristically miffed at him, but it's not them. It's him. He's the poison.


The fact of the matter is that behind the ant-bellum camaraderie charade that you adopt, you cannot accept any viewpoint as correct unless it fits with your own. Related to this is your repeated attempts to keep control of the discussion to avoid facts that you find challenging to deal with.

That has been demonstrated several times on this thread.

Rather that deal with this cognitive dissonance (and make no mistake, cognitive dissonance is what it is), it is much easier to adopt the role of being aggrieved by a malicious outside force, in the form of this "poisoner".

quote:

And he has his enablers. While most people in here say what they think, there is one who tells others what to think. He cloaks his words in "I want to build bridges" while doing his work and tearing them down. When he gets things absolutely, demonstratively wrong, he slips away in the dark. Always, 100% of the time, refuses to acknowledge a mistake.


Please, provide examples! I am always willing to be proven wrong.

Unless I have missed it, there has been zero (0) evidence presented to challenge any claims that I've made in this thread.

Which is really what this is all about. You have a preference for narrative and anecdote. Mine is for facts and statistics. Both have their merits, but one is much heavier than the other, as you will well know.

quote:

There is one other that internalizes things and sees boogeymen where there aren't any. A few days ago, he posted that it was an age thing for me; that I was picking on him and others because of generational matters, which isn't true. Until that moment, I had no idea how old he was. From the context of his comment, I now suppose he's in his 30s or 40s but for all I knew, until then, he was my age or 20 or 80. Another fellow I know pretty well is, I think, in his late 40s, but's that's my age (or so I think). The poisoner is comparatively younger based on a comment he made a year ago in another thread, but I'm not sure. It doesn't matter.


Not in the slightest.

I have found your attitude of consistent and unabashed optimism exceptionally inappropriate. I can't recall having ever seen an individual simply refuse to acknowledge factual evidence (that they have found themselves!) as it didn't fit with their conception of how events were unfolding.

Unsure how age is relevant to this discussion.

quote:

Or is there some component to generational things that explains the behavior of these three? Is that why the poisoner and his enablers insist on keeping everything public? Is that why they refused every request to keep this private or take matters private? Is this a Facebook way of doing things? (Probably not - there are undoubtedly a bunch of folks in here, younger and older, who use Facebook but don't act this way.)


Likely in the interests of full disclosure, and to keep at least a veneer of civility.

Your own PM's to me, for example, are the valid justification in my eyes. They would not be fitting with the narrative you have outlined above.

quote:

I have the poisoner on Ignore and it's worked pretty well - not perfectly, but well. I'm adding his two enablers. They've seriously drawn on their stock of goodwill. Not overdrawn though. I'll be glad to discuss things privately with them at length, in depth. Always have been.

Every person in here is a good man in person, I believe. Even the one who poisoned this thread.


No, we'll keep this public, thank you. Transparency is something of great value.

This is no doubt of some embarrassment to your attempts of being the genial gentlemen that you work so hard to come across as, so I think we'll keep it public to highlight just how duplicitous you can be when someone dares to take a position contrary to yours.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3354
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 2:55:57 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42568
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways .

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.


HEED MY WORDS! DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/5/2020 3:06:20 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3355
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 3:04:49 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2874
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways .

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.


Yeah, it's something of a double blow after Prince Charles too. Definitely reinforced the "one rule for us, another for the peons" vibe.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3356
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 3:08:08 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42568
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You couldn't make it up part 3,507

So, as I mentioned yesterday, there is concern that people are still not taking this thing seriously and are flouting the guidance from the Government about social distancing.

And what do we hear? The bloody Chief Medical Officer of Scotland - who has been hammering home that guidance - feels she is SO damn important that advice to the plebs doesn't need to be heeded by her.

And what happens? At a time when trying to get people to realise the seriousness of this is falling on deaf ears for too many people? Her boss decides its okay, she can simply carry on getting her juicy fat pay check. Oh but the police have been around to her gaff to make sure she understands the error of her ways .

So next time a minister or a medical officer implores people to do the right thing, what is their example? One law for those in power - who can do what they want, and one for the plebs.

Seriously you can't make this rubbish up.


Yeah, it's something of a double blow after Prince Charles too. Definitely reinforced the "one rule for us, another for the peons" vibe.
warspite1

Yep - we need LEADERS we can trust, leaders we can believe in. People to step up and take the lead. But.... same as it ever was I guess


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 3357
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 3:12:41 PM   
durnedwolf


Posts: 862
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: USA
Status: offline
Canoerebel - yesterday was what - three pages back? Next time, how about you go back, get that link, and quote it so we might-could see what you are referencing?

(I've edited the line above. I said that there was nothing Canoerebel shared referred to a previous post and I was wrong. My bad.)

when I share a link from CNN in response that shows several states allowing houses of worship to stay open as "essential activity" and you counter with what you posted below... dude! The article I shared was as of April 2nd. The CNN link Encircled shared was an interview of someone leaving a church after attending worship...

I'm glad for you and all Georgians that the state of Georgia is doing such a swell job of cracking down on the virus. In my opinion, California is doing a pretty good job also.

I know people that wish to attend church regardless of the virus. I know others that say they can easily practice their faith at home until we get through this.

I appreciate your views of Nation-wide-press. I have grave concerns over our world-wide-press. But that doesn't give me leave to say what Encircled posted was inaccurate within a public forum unless I have something else to back up my claim...

Encircled is from across the pond. Both you and I are from the US but in different states. We all see the world through our own lens and many of us differ on how best to combat COVID-19.

All I'm saying is that it's bogus to put down what Encircled shared simply because you think it "might be" inaccurate. Let the guy post what he is seeing and considers relevant. Some of us really want to hear what others are seeing\feeling\thinking. We all learn better through sharing information.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Durned Wolf, I was referring to a similar post made yesterday about Georgia which was shown to be false by the actual provisions of the Georgia ordinance. The nationwide press has been getting it wrong. I'm not sure how many states allow religious services but I don't think many places actually are even if permitted to.

Nationwide decrees or statewide decrees may not be necessary when local jurisdictions act promptly, as they mostly have in the US. They have their fingers on the pulse of what's going. As noted in here, Georgia shut down it's schools three weeks ago, ahead of England. With a few exceptions, I think our federal system has worked pretty well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, if this report is as accurate as the one posted yesterday, it's probably inaccurate.

And if there are 14 states that have done this, which would be a surprise, many or most religious groups are observing the countermeasures voluntarily.

Most places that I know of suspended meetings at least three weeks ago.

There have been a few notable exceptions (lamentably) but they are comparatively few and far between, judging from the reports I've read or heard.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1246658639785492480







Canoerebel,


"It's probably inaccurate" is a really bogus thing to say to someone when you are comparing a news-link from a fellow formite only to reports that you've read\heard... What Encircled shared was from CNN...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/stay-at-home-order-religious-exemptions-states-coronavirus/index.html






< Message edited by durnedwolf -- 4/5/2020 3:25:24 PM >


_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3358
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 3:12:51 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 7734
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: offline
Around here, the churches are shut down. But the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution prohibits government interference in religion.

I would say that outdoor service might be fine, depending upon the weather.

I personally have blocked two people here. The second one because he would not respond a clarification when he denigrated what I had to say in one of my posts. The other was when he questioned what someone else posted then I posted his quote and the link that answered the question that he had. No response showed me that he did not care to be enlightened but rather just wanted to cause trouble. At least, that is what it appeared to me.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3359
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/5/2020 3:20:54 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 1910
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline
Why would you say outdoor services are fine?

What medical evidence do you have to back that up?



_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 3360
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