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RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:05:37 PM   
Canoerebel


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I weigh more, I'm an inch taller, and we are the same age.

Like you, I've battled weight most of my life. I do a ton of outdoors things, all of which make me hungry. :)

I'm in pretty good shape - I can go hard and long. But I'm working on trimming down, since (as you noted) age isn't something in our control.

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Post #: 3151
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:08:22 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

First on the hydro chloroquine (or whatever, from memory) and the Jewish doctor trying a regimen of it, azythromycin (memory, too) and zinc sulfate.

Rubbish. Doctors should know better. Virus simply don't work that way. No one has ever invented a medication to kill a virus once it has gotten a good foothold in a body. Even the bet anti-virals we have only shorten durations and even then only if you take them soon enough. Vaccines, prevention, isolation, quarantine help the spread. This is a community disease and if people are expecting a magic bullet they are going to be disappointed, sick or dead.

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Post #: 3152
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:12:09 PM   
RangerJoe


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Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Man, John, we could be exact twins (except your a bit slimmer than I am, at the moment).

Re Obesity, we had that conversation in my house last week. Wife and I agreed it really began to change in the '80s with fast food, super-size, and soda; plus so many people used to have physical jobs (farming, etc.); plus the change to a sedentary lifestyle. In the '60s and '70s of my childhood, we boys would gather whenever not in school to play hide-n-seek, baseball, football, swimming, etc. I can count on my hand the number of times I've seen boys in a neighborhood playing football (twice in 30 years).


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

I'd seen that report and others previously. Vaping and obesity were suggested as possible reasons.


ER nurse in the thick of it was interviewed on 60 minutes last Sunday and when asked for risk factors she said 60% were males and obesity seems to be the highest risk factor for death. Whilst I can't change my age or gender (although I heard that is not a hard and fast rule these days)I do qualify as "overweight" but I'm a bit shy of obese. I'm 60 years old, never smoked, 6,1' and 220lbs and can run a few miles so I'm hoping a lifetime of exercise and half of a lifetime of clean living will be on my side. Battled weight my whole life and for the most part am winning but the last 10 years it seems a lot of people have gotten heavier so I look god in comparison. Not sure where this obesity epidemic started (fast food, TV, video games,people don't walk anymore, sedentary jobs, all of the above?)but it is here and if it is a risk factor lots of folks are in trouble. Too early for silver linings but maybe people will enjoy getting outside after being locked up with each other for so long.




A simple reason may also be the amount of fructose consumed as in (HFCS) high fructose corn syrup. The body metabolizes it differently than glucose even though the chemical formula is the same. Look it up. Also, the modern HFCS is now 80% fructose and 20% glucose.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/why-is-fructose-bad-for-you#section3

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533803/


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Post #: 3153
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:13:45 PM   
Canoerebel


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What is HFCS? Houston Fried Chicken Sandwiches?

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Post #: 3154
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:13:50 PM   
Encircled


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It isn't a far fetched notion that the youngsters might just start seeing this as nature's methodology for culling the overpopulated herd.

May not be long before we Boomers start being seen as expendible.


It is far fetched to put it mildly

Look, it must suck being old and not being able to do whatever you want anymore, but lets keep it sensible eh?

(I'm 47 btw, not a boomer, but also not a youngster!)

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Post #: 3155
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:16:40 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Vietnam, Don't shoot to kill, Wound and overburden the opposing force.

As posted before this reminds of talks me I had with Americans that had lived for years in China.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/3/2020 5:26:16 PM >


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Post #: 3156
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:20:49 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Is fructose bad for you?
Posted April 26, 2011,


https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-fructose-bad-for-you-201104262425

"Virtually every cell in the body can use glucose for energy. In contrast, only liver cells break down fructose. What happens to fructose inside liver cells is complicated. One of the end products is triglyceride, a form of fat. Uric acid and free radicals are also formed."



"Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them. There are plenty of reasons to avoid sugary drinks and foods with added sugar, like empty calories, weight gain, and blood sugar swings."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/3/2020 5:26:03 PM >


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Post #: 3157
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:35:06 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

What is HFCS? Houston Fried Chicken Sandwiches?


HFCS => high fructose corn syrup as I put in my post.

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Post #: 3158
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:43:55 PM   
Canoerebel


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Post #: 3159
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:47:18 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Sun Tzu’s conviction is that victory and defeat are fundamentally psychological states. He sees war, not so much as a matter of destroying the enemy materially and physically, but of unsettling the enemy psychologically; his goal is to force the enemy’s leadership and society from a condition of harmony, in which they can resist effectively, toward chaos(luan), which is tantamount to defeat.

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Post #: 3160
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 5:50:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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Well, that was Sherman's notion in Georgia. And he was right.

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Post #: 3161
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:01:43 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It isn't a far fetched notion that the youngsters might just start seeing this as nature's methodology for culling the overpopulated herd.

May not be long before we Boomers start being seen as expendible.


It is far fetched to put it mildly

Look, it must suck being old and not being able to do whatever you want anymore, but lets keep it sensible eh?

(I'm 47 btw, not a boomer, but also not a youngster!)



Apparently not as far fetched as you think:

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Well, my kids refer to it as "The Boomer Remover".......so there is that



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Post #: 3162
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:16:17 PM   
durnedwolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

"Boomer" and "American exceptionalism" are terms new to me. I read a lot but hadn't come across those before, at least not enough to register on my radar. My best guess is that they are terms that proliferate on social media, which I don't use.
(The latter has since been explained in here and I can look up the former.)


Here you go - the start of the "Boomer" phrase that went viral. It's kinda funny to show you the term and how it went viral within a clip about global warming - lol. Still, it is what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_tocfXUiI


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Post #: 3163
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:20:22 PM   
Canoerebel


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Thanks, Durned Wolf. I'd never heard that before. I've never heard it used in conversation here in Georgia.

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Post #: 3164
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:27:28 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

We are never going to get outside again. The MTA, who runs the subways in NYC, has many employees out with Covid adding to the previous service cuts. Subways are sometimes erratic, and some folks are continuing to work and commute, probably by necessity. I won't go near the things myself, but if this continues (an isolated incident I hope) this wont end. The subways need to be shut down.



warspite1

Sadly London is the same..... Some people still need to work and can't work from home. So what do they do? Cut down on the number of trains and tubes running. Okay.....




I think the last numbers were that tube traffic was down 95% now though. So if NHS workers need to get to work I think they'll be okay.

Construction is one industry that has been slow to close, and anecdotal evidence from my neighbourhood would also suggest this is a strong vector for continued spread of the virus. These guys don't wear protective gear for their job (which they should do), let alone for the virus. They're all sitting within a few feet having a smoke break, and they all have to get from the outskirts of London into the center on the tube.

I think it's slowing now, but not done yet.

Are you in London Warspite? If so where?
warspite1

Yep. The warspites are Londoners born and bred. Currently in the southeast of this fine city. What about you?



We’re in Leyton, NE London. We’re both transplants but have grown used to the place! Actually I’m one of the few people who thinks the London weather is pretty decent, being from Portland, OR. My wife doesn’t agree. She’s from Melbourne.

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Post #: 3165
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:29:25 PM   
Ian R

 

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The Australian graph is starting to look better.



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Ian R

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Post #: 3166
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:30:23 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

We are never going to get outside again. The MTA, who runs the subways in NYC, has many employees out with Covid adding to the previous service cuts. Subways are sometimes erratic, and some folks are continuing to work and commute, probably by necessity. I won't go near the things myself, but if this continues (an isolated incident I hope) this wont end. The subways need to be shut down.



warspite1

Sadly London is the same..... Some people still need to work and can't work from home. So what do they do? Cut down on the number of trains and tubes running. Okay.....




I think the last numbers were that tube traffic was down 95% now though. So if NHS workers need to get to work I think they'll be okay.

Construction is one industry that has been slow to close, and anecdotal evidence from my neighbourhood would also suggest this is a strong vector for continued spread of the virus. These guys don't wear protective gear for their job (which they should do), let alone for the virus. They're all sitting within a few feet having a smoke break, and they all have to get from the outskirts of London into the center on the tube.

I think it's slowing now, but not done yet.

Are you in London Warspite? If so where?
warspite1

Yep. The warspites are Londoners born and bred. Currently in the southeast of this fine city. What about you?



We’re in Leyton, NE London. We’re both transplants but have grown used to the place! Actually I’m one of the few people who thinks the London weather is pretty decent, being from Portland, OR. My wife doesn’t agree. She’s from Melbourne.


I agree with you on the London weather. I spent a New Year's long weekend in London. It was sunny and warm.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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― Julia Child


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Post #: 3167
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 6:54:01 PM   
Encircled


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Apparently not as far fetched as you think:

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Well, my kids refer to it as "The Boomer Remover".......so there is that




And that is a joke, the kind I found funny when I was in my twenties, but wouldn't find funny now.

This is a more general point not aimed at you (or anyone on here) but I think a lot of us have forgotten what it was like to be young and should cut them a lot more slack, especially at times like this.

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Post #: 3168
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 7:37:55 PM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks, Durned Wolf. I'd never heard that before. I've never heard it used in conversation here in Georgia.


It's referring to Baby Boomers, but of course, most who use the term don't realize most of the people they are referring to are younger than Boomers.

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Post #: 3169
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 7:53:32 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

But travel is a different thing altogether. This article mentions also that about 1/3 of that number were Americans returning home from travelling in China. All you have to do is look at the number of normally scheduled fights around the world to see that this stuff will spread regardless of intent.


I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying they intentionally manufactured the virus or even ordered infected people to leave. What they did was not warn the rest of the world in a timely fashion as was their negotiated obligation. That has to be either extreme negligence or intent. The obvious cover-up and laughable propaganda claims since makes me think it was the latter.


It's all about face. And since we are kind of thinking now this was a mistaken release from a virology lab, you can imagine the loss of face they would have admitting they've caused this pandemic.

So yes, there seems to have been extreme negligence compounded by intent to cover it up, but I don't think that this was all designed as some grand strategic initiative to F-up the rest of the world. There is culpability though, yes.





I think we are pretty much saying the same thing. There had to be a very high level discussion about completely shutting down Hubei province. In order to take such an extreme decision there had to be airtight evidence of the severity of the threat because such a move could not be covered up. It is inconceivable that nobody thought about foreign travel or properly notifying the WHO. These had to be willful decisions.

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Post #: 3170
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:02:58 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Getting the Senior Discount of 5 cents off your coffee at MacDonalds seems not worth the risk of mortality from Covid.

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Post #: 3171
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:24:41 PM   
RFalvo69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

What 11 Billion People Mean for Disease Outbreaks

The explosive growth of the human population—from 2.5 billion to 6 billion since the second half of the 20th century—may have already started changing how infectious diseases emerge


By Bahar Gholipour, LiveScience on November 26, 2013

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-11-billion-people-mean-disease-outbreaks/


" "We should expect to see a continuous acceleration of progresses, but this is not a given," Khan said. "I think people nowadays have a false sense of security, and I think part of this is that public health is working,” but that can only last so long if public health resources keep decreasing instead of strengthening, he said.

“We have eradicated and eliminated some diseases from our community, but the honest truth is most diseases don't get eliminated," Khan said. "Most diseases come home to stay.""


Don't forget deforestation. A lot of virii live and thrive in the jungle, far from civilization. But once deforestation reaches them only God knows what will happen.

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Post #: 3172
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:28:56 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Loka, you're peeved about perceived backhanded blasts painting you as a POS (untrue, to my way of thinking) while hammering me clearly and openly.

I'd prefer not to carry on with this in here, but I'm glad to "sit down" and air our grievances privately. It might be fruitful. Maybe not. If you prefer doing it publicly, could we just stand down for awhile and green button each other until things cool a bit?


I don't green button anybody. I see no reason to - I'm perfectly capable on my own of memory-holing somebody's post if it's egregious.

But on topic? Here's what I've got: "OK, buddy." If you're not comfortable being forthcoming in public about what's under your public implications/accusations, then we're done here and you should drop it. If you've got a good reason under what you've said about me in front of everybody else, then you should let everybody else know what that good reason is - or perhaps you should revisit your prior posts and retract your comments if you're not comfortable citing your factual basis for them (how one perceives a comment made by another is its own form of fact, but you won't tell me that either, it seems).

Show me I'm wrong and I'll issue a sincere mea culpa (and I don't mean that just in this situation), but it seems that you can't (or won't) do that publicly. I'll be waiting if/when you're ready to do so.

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Post #: 3173
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:32:57 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I haven't been buying the comments re Germany. And suddenly their critical cases seem to have exploded from a consistently tiny figure (I don't believe the UK critical figure either - or the recovered number come to that).

If the reasons given for such a low German death rate were to be believed, surely there is no reason - following even tighter lock down measures - that their deaths and criticals should suddenly start rising? Even for a country as efficient as Germany, those numbers (compared to all those around them) just didn't stack up. Or maybe this is just a blip. I watch this with interest. For the avoidance of doubt I don't think there is anything sinister here - I just think there may have been a difference in procedure (how deaths are checked for Corona) and reporting.


It's been posted numerous times on this thread and there is abundant info on Germany available with a quick search.

1. Case age average up until about 3-4 days ago was 46 years old. Very low
2. This was caused mainly by skiing crowd picking it up and coming back, then partying at Carnival.
3. Older people told early on to isolate, no visits to care homes, etc.
4. Extensive testing and case tracking early.
5. Extensive testing finds more mild or asymptomatic cases bring the mortality rates down.

There are a lot of reports that now it's finding a way into care homes and other vectors to the more vulneable, so as seen elsewhere, this would bring up critical cases and mortality.

In the UK London is the centre of this so far and only 11% of Londoners are over 70, IIRC. There are obviously other risk factors though, and low testing means mortality rates will at least seem higher until we know more about who has or has had this.


I read a rather interesting article the other day on why/how Germany has done so many tests. Here it is.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/820595489/why-germanys-coronavirus-death-rate-is-far-lower-than-in-other-countries

Germany's death rate is more comparable to the US death rate so far than it is to Italy's. On day 20, they are at 13.3 deaths per million and the US was at 11.8 deaths per million on day 20. On day 18, they were at 9.3 and we were at 7.5 deaths per million.

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Post #: 3174
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:33:21 PM   
obvert


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Looking at testing I think two numbers are important to see what is really going on in a place. The tests/million shows if a place his actually testing enough to see a glimpse of it's population infection rate.

The other important number is the infection rate per thousand tests. I sorted for this and coloured with a higher rate more reddish, lower toward yellow.

We know there are not enough tests, but if the testing is over 2k/million I used it.

To me this seems to show which places we know are really struggling, and others which are at different stages but are at least getting a handle on how much of this is moving through the population, like Germany, Canada, the US and South Korea, due to the number of tests. Some places I've left since the there hasn't been enough testing to know, but I suspect in most of those cases, if they're getting a high rate of positives/thousand, they probably have a lot of positives that aren't showing up on the records yet.

Japan is worrisome since we know they've been intentionally keeping things open, not testing, and dealing with this all in a very different way, but especially Tokyo numbers are going up now.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/3/2020 8:47:08 PM >


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Post #: 3175
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:33:38 PM   
alanschu

 

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I don't have a link handy, but I believe France's spike in numbers is because they started counting those that passed away in places like nursing homes and whatnot.

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Post #: 3176
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:39:13 PM   
obvert


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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I haven't been buying the comments re Germany. And suddenly their critical cases seem to have exploded from a consistently tiny figure (I don't believe the UK critical figure either - or the recovered number come to that).

If the reasons given for such a low German death rate were to be believed, surely there is no reason - following even tighter lock down measures - that their deaths and criticals should suddenly start rising? Even for a country as efficient as Germany, those numbers (compared to all those around them) just didn't stack up. Or maybe this is just a blip. I watch this with interest. For the avoidance of doubt I don't think there is anything sinister here - I just think there may have been a difference in procedure (how deaths are checked for Corona) and reporting.


It's been posted numerous times on this thread and there is abundant info on Germany available with a quick search.

1. Case age average up until about 3-4 days ago was 46 years old. Very low
2. This was caused mainly by skiing crowd picking it up and coming back, then partying at Carnival.
3. Older people told early on to isolate, no visits to care homes, etc.
4. Extensive testing and case tracking early.
5. Extensive testing finds more mild or asymptomatic cases bring the mortality rates down.

There are a lot of reports that now it's finding a way into care homes and other vectors to the more vulneable, so as seen elsewhere, this would bring up critical cases and mortality.

In the UK London is the centre of this so far and only 11% of Londoners are over 70, IIRC. There are obviously other risk factors though, and low testing means mortality rates will at least seem higher until we know more about who has or has had this.


I read a rather interesting article the other day on why/how Germany has done so many tests. Here it is.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/820595489/why-germanys-coronavirus-death-rate-is-far-lower-than-in-other-countries

Germany's death rate is more comparable to the US death rate so far than it is to Italy's. On day 20, they are at 13.3 deaths per million and the US was at 11.8 deaths per million on day 20. On day 18, they were at 9.3 and we were at 7.5 deaths per million.


They're talking about ding 200k test/day there soon. In the article the expert says they will soon have more cases than tests can detect. If so that is a LOT of cases with 1.4 million tests a week!

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Post #: 3177
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:39:33 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

I don't have a link handy, but I believe France's spike in numbers is because they started counting those that passed away in places like nursing homes and whatnot.


It is.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to alanschu)
Post #: 3178
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:42:48 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9111
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


It's one of the reasons it's going to hit the US hard. I do believe.
Look at Louisiana and it's numbers.



I also think that we're still really early in the curve, and that the numbers could easily end up being worse than we think they might be at this moment. Also think that some states will be hit disproportionately harder than others. Louisiana is a good example.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn



Iam having problems finding US deaths by age, preexisting conditions. Anyone have that?


Here you go, for Louisiana: http://ldh.la.gov/Coronavirus/ (down at the bottom click on "By Age", etc.)

Got it from the link Chickenboy set us up with the other day: https://covidtracking.com/data/#state-LA

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 3179
RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/3/2020 8:42:51 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9111
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Herd immunity.
Much as I don't like it I suspect that may be the correct answer. We won't go quietly, but we will go there. Funny thing about science, I heard it works whether you believe in it or not.


We'll get there - that's what we're trying to do. But because of the acute nature of this disease, and how much more rapidly it spreads than the common cold or the flu does, we're trying to slow down when we reach herd immunity. Flattening the curve.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3180
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