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RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/24/2020 2:42:00 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

shot down to 5 B5N and 1 A6M lost


The planes lost by the Japanese in their strike on Midway may have been more significant than is realized since the Midway fighters happened to have concentrated against the Hiryu bombers. When it came to striking back at the Americans after the dive bombers struck the KB Hiryu was only able to put up 10 torpedo bombers and one of those was a refugee from Kaga (IIRC)



Yeah strange how the smaller parts of a operation like this could ripple across the whole battle.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 31
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/24/2020 3:14:19 PM   
spence

 

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Speaking of the B5Ns in Hiryu's airgroup Wiki has the following to say:

The air group suffered heavily during the attack: 2 B5Ns were shot down en route to the island, another was shot down by AA fire, 1 was forced to ditch on the trip back, another disappeared on the return trip and 5 were damaged beyond repair.[42]

So in fact 1/2 of Hiryu's torpedo bombers were lost in the Midway raid. And with a battle damaged B5N (also from the Midway raid) the strike leader of the B5Ns that later attacked Yorktown didn't have enough fuel to return to Hiryu after the strike.

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Post #: 32
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/24/2020 4:10:39 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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The biggest lost was the air crews that would never be replaced with the same caliber and experience. Not to mention seasoned Admirals going down with their ships, ridiculous.

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Post #: 33
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/25/2020 4:50:47 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.


Yeah, that happened the 'night' before when the PBY spotted some 'support group' of the raid. Kinda made the whole 'suspense' thing moot. All they had to do was find the KB that they now knew was there the next morning. Of course not a small point.

BTW, the torp was a dud.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/25/2020 5:09:39 PM >


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Post #: 34
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/25/2020 4:53:42 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.


As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.




And the gunner was decorated.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 35
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/25/2020 5:06:38 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

The biggest lost was the air crews that would never be replaced with the same caliber and experience. Not to mention seasoned Admirals going down with their ships, ridiculous.


And yet another myth about the battle. According to "Shattered Sword" the IJN lost ~25% of the pilots involved. Not insignificant, but not exactly shattering either. Of course the lost CV's were, as well as the many mechanics that were lost. These were more difficult for the Japanese to replace than the U.S..

As to what became of those pilots, I've no idea. But news media types were dispersed far, and wide, so they couldn't 'spill the beans'.


< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/25/2020 5:07:46 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Scott_USN)
Post #: 36
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/25/2020 5:35:02 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.


Yeah, that happened the 'night' before when the PBY spotted some 'support group' of the raid. Kinda made the whole 'suspense' thing moot. All they had to do was find the KB that they now knew was there the next morning. Of course not a small point.

BTW, the torp was a dud.


It was actually the invasion force and the tanker was not slowed down.

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Post #: 37
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/25/2020 6:31:53 PM   
alanschu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Also, there is a near-miss Kamikaze attack on Enterprise thwarted by a tail gunner on deck, that whole sequence is BS, though I suppose that's Hollywood.


As a pure Hollywood BS sort of thing, the sequence is unbelievable EXCEPT that it actually happened pretty much as shown.



Really? Didn't know that.....so that one gets a pass!

The "Canyons of Roi" sequence still really bugs me though



Yeah it's brought up in Shattered Sword. Been a while since I read it, but IIRC one of the Japanese ship commanders (Not sure if Nagumo himself or not) was shockingly impressed by the bravery of the pilot. Highly recommend the book.

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Post #: 38
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/25/2020 7:29:09 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Interesting the only torpedo hit was from a PBY on a oil tanker at 1AM.

Wiki so not my knowledge.


Yeah, that happened the 'night' before when the PBY spotted some 'support group' of the raid. Kinda made the whole 'suspense' thing moot. All they had to do was find the KB that they now knew was there the next morning. Of course not a small point.

BTW, the torp was a dud.


I was wondering why the story was a little short on what happened to the ship. I looked up the oiler and it was still at sea in 1945! Those torps... criminal.

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Post #: 39
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/26/2020 3:33:18 PM   
boxof9


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I found the movie to be a 2 hour video game.

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Post #: 40
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/27/2020 3:05:17 AM   
Scott_USN

 

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It was a shame that Best who was an aggressive and practical officer was grounded due to his oxygen. That was weird, did it give him TB? That is what I read seems strange, but wow what would have happened without that one officer and of course Wade McClusky. I wonder if McClusky did cut off Cmdr Best dive bombing run?

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Post #: 41
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/27/2020 4:05:48 AM   
Lovejoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

It was a shame that Best who was an aggressive and practical officer was grounded due to his oxygen. That was weird, did it give him TB?


Apparently it did.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-nov-03-me-65245-story.html

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Post #: 42
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/27/2020 4:20:05 AM   
Scott_USN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

It was a shame that Best who was an aggressive and practical officer was grounded due to his oxygen. That was weird, did it give him TB?


Apparently it did.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-nov-03-me-65245-story.html


Wow thankfully he still lived to 90s! One man 2 hits that changed the war.

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Post #: 43
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/27/2020 4:20:35 AM   
Scott_USN

 

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Which was doomed anyway.

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Post #: 44
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 2/27/2020 5:00:39 AM   
spence

 

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Ltjg Norman J (Dusty) Kleiss, another member of Scouting 6, was the only pilot to score three direct hits with a dive bomber during the Battle of Midway: HIJMS Kaga, HIJMS Hiryu, and HIJMS Mikuma. He became an instructor pilot following the Battle of Midway. He died at the age of 100 in 2016. He was the last surviving dive bomber pilot who fought at the Battle of Midway.

< Message edited by spence -- 2/27/2020 5:04:21 AM >

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Post #: 45
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 3/1/2020 10:18:16 PM   
kaliyama

 

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Does anyone have recommendations on what the best midway documentaries are? I just read Ian Toll's two books on the PTO and loved them, would like to show a doc on midway to waifu to explain why i had my nose in them for so long. I'm seeing Smithsonian and history channel docs clocking in at under an hour which can't do it justice, and a 2 hour long doc from 1995 that appears super dry and not very good from having previewed it. Is there anything on the level of Toll's books in video form to share?

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Post #: 46
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 3/1/2020 10:27:00 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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I have been meaning to watch this one just a glance has some good footage. Think it was discovery channel.

https://youtu.be/HHeuXZDKdiA

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Post #: 47
RE: OT--Midway Movie - 3/2/2020 7:42:03 PM   
kaliyama

 

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Thanks. I'll give it a watch and let you know my thoughts. I went with the Smithsonian one. It did an excellent job in presenting lots of relevant information with only 50 minutes of running time. It lacks any insight into IJN thinking (or lack thereof) that led to Midway and frames Nimitz's decision to attack as more of a generalized gamble than it was, but it stands up on its own and I doubt any video documentary is going to be much better on those kinds of granular details.

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