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Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan)

 
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Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 1:51:54 PM   
Evoken

 

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Hello everybody i am starting my first grand campaign PBEM vs guctony with his ironman japan. I have played a few PBEM games before of smaller scenarios , marianas vs mind_messing , guadalcanal vs a discord friend and little bit of grand campaign vs ai but got boring real quick. I am still a bit of a noob but i am on forums reading AAR's everyday.

Here are the realism settings and house rules we agreed on with my opponent:
No December 7th suprise and allied player can create task forces on day 1 , Reliable US Torps - enabled , Realistic R&D , No Unit Withdrawals - enabled , played defined upgrades - enabled , extreme variable reinforcements , automatic replacements and all of that are disabled

House rules;
1)No CV Hunting turn 1
2)Paratroopers; Free to use fragments to capture small island bases but have to bring the whole unit if you are using it elsewhere , either in 1 turn or in the following turns if you cant bring the whole unit.
3)Units cutting retreat must be realistic size of brigade or above ; What does cutting retreat mean = surrounding a hex completely with units and no direction to escape.
4)All PT Boats in the same hex must be in the same task force
5)No Crossing Malacca strait with surface ships untill Japan controls Singapore
6)Fighter altitude limit 20k untill 06/42 , 25k 06/42-01/43 , 30k 43-44 , 35k 44-45 , 40k 45-46
7)No night strat bombing untill 44

My goal is ; try to prevent auto-victory for Japan. I am open to suggestions
Post #: 1
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 2:49:20 PM   
Evoken

 

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Lets start with some intell , Ironman Japan starts with 8 Fleet Carriers with capacity of 657 , 6 CVL's with capacity of 278 and 7 CVE's with capacity of 171 that brings the total capacity to 1106 and 14 more CV's , 9 CVL's + 8 CVE in the build list.
Battleships ; On top of the standart list they get 1 extra nagato and Yamato sisters already built , 1 with KB another one in Kota Baharu Heavy cover force. BB reinforcements ; +1 Yamato , +4 Kongo , +1 Nagato and 4 German BB's arrive at Indian Ocean i believe.
Cruisers: Heavy cruisers list only one and a half page long but they only get 3 German Cruisers as heavy cruiser reinforcements , Light Cruisers; A lot + 12 Building

Conclusion from this; I gotta be extra carefull with carriers , shift all the shipment to East Coast and have BB escorts with my convoys just like Atlantic convoys.

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 2
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 3:01:04 PM   
Evoken

 

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I am thinking about abandoning China and moving all the chinese corps to india to make a proper defense there , question is do i try to hold untill i run out of supply or start leaving from day 1 ?

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 3
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 4:59:38 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken
I am thinking about abandoning China and moving all the chinese corps to india to make a proper defense there , question is do i try to hold untill i run out of supply or start leaving from day 1 ?

Sure, you should stand and fight in favourable terrain with sizeable rearguard. Defending is easy, and your units are rather expendable. It becomes harder for China when supply runs out, but until that it would be counterproductive to run

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 4
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 5:14:22 PM   
HansBolter


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Suggestion: Don't agree to play the Allied side in a Japanese Fanbois doctored wet dream Ironman scenario.


When he asked if you would agree to play the Allies in an Ironman scenario the answer should have been 'sure as long as it is Ironman Japan'.


You have admitted that you have not played a full campaign scenario. You don't even have a feel for how things need to be done in a stock scenario, how can you expect to have any idea of how things will need to be done against an opponent on steriods?

A somewhat brutal assessment, but this looks headed for an early crash and burn.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 5
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 7:03:43 PM   
Evoken

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Suggestion: Don't agree to play the Allied side in a Japanese Fanbois doctored wet dream Ironman scenario.


When he asked if you would agree to play the Allies in an Ironman scenario the answer should have been 'sure as long as it is Ironman Japan'.


You have admitted that you have not played a full campaign scenario. You don't even have a feel for how things need to be done in a stock scenario, how can you expect to have any idea of how things will need to be done against an opponent on steriods?

A somewhat brutal assessment, but this looks headed for an early crash and burn.

I actually don't mind the alternative history scenarios even if its unrealistic. I love a good challenge thats why i agreed to this game and i dont mind losing.
PBEM games usually take 5-6 years minimum to playthrough , i believe i will improve a lot during this time period

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 8:03:28 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

PBEM games usually take 5-6 years minimum to play through ...]



Possibly a lot shorter against a human ironman!

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 7
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 8:25:12 PM   
inqistor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

I am thinking about abandoning China and moving all the chinese corps to india to make a proper defense there , question is do i try to hold untill i run out of supply or start leaving from day 1 ?

I don't recall AI being particularly strong in China in that Scenario, although it might be because of script. Are there extra Japanese forces in China? In stock Japan is quite weak between Shanghai, and Hong Kong, you should move few Armies there and try to attack.
You want to keep supply road from Burma open as long as possible, So move some Chinese to Burma, and let them fight there first.

Those German Raiders are funny, but they are so out of position, that you have great target for hunting with your CVs.

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 8
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 8:33:04 PM   
HansBolter


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I play Ironman scenarios against the AI as they were designed for.

I too don't mind ahistorical scenarios and capabilities.

You either misinterpreted the point of my post or purposely chose a deflecting answer.

Agreeing to play a scenario designed to give the under performing AI a better chance, against a human opponent, who has added yet more personal tweaks, is the sign of a pure masochist.

All I can add is that I hope you enjoy it.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to inqistor)
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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 8:46:07 PM   
ChuckBerger

 

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quote:

You either misinterpreted the point of my post or purposely chose a deflecting answer.


Wow. You made a suggestion / comment in a new AAR thread. The person writing the AAR responded courteously. And you come back with this? Dude...

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/18/2020 10:41:09 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

Agreeing to play a scenario designed to give the under performing AI a better chance, against a human opponent, who has added yet more personal tweaks, is the sign of a pure masochist.


That's how you should describe every Japan player in the stock scenarios

(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 12:02:49 AM   
RangerJoe


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Lets see. The no surprise, reliable torpedoes, and no withdrawls do favor the Allies. PDU On helps both but Japan more with the Research and Development favoring Japan tremendously.

Build up all of your off map and CONUS/Canada bases for their VPs. Protect Portland from a smash and grab raid. Have units in CONUS ready to rail to any possible base as emergency anti-invasion forces. Do NOT forget to have pickets and naval search on the West Coast of the US and Canada.

Build massive forts at Prince Rupert as well as the base in the mountains along the rail line, also the base on the north end of Vancoover Island. You want to inhibit an invasion and strategic bombing of the US which could eliminate your industries and resources.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 12
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 5:05:39 AM   
Evoken

 

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Here is a quick glance at difference , looks like japan gets a lot more divisions + 2 tank divisions ready in manchuria




Attachment (1)

(in reply to inqistor)
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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 5:19:45 AM   
Evoken

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Those German Raiders are funny, but they are so out of position, that you have great target for hunting with your CVs.

I just looked at the editor , i was wrong about spawn position.

Admiral Scheer and 3 seperate AMC's spawns close to Port Blair
Admiral Hipper spawns close to Sydney
Admiral Lutzow spawns close to Cocos Island
Scharhorst , Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen spawns close to Perth

And we got extreme variation in Reinforcements +/-60 days it will make it very hard to predict when they will arrive

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 14
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 5:22:14 AM   
RangerJoe


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Don't forget to protect the USSR either if he has a lot more units. With that areas resources and industry safe from your attacks, he can support a lot of action for a long time. He can then probably replace a lot more lost squads that you might think possible.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 15
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 5:41:29 AM   
Evoken

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Lets see. The no surprise, reliable torpedoes, and no withdrawls do favor the Allies. PDU On helps both but Japan more with the Research and Development favoring Japan tremendously.

Build up all of your off map and CONUS/Canada bases for their VPs. Protect Portland from a smash and grab raid. Have units in CONUS ready to rail to any possible base as emergency anti-invasion forces. Do NOT forget to have pickets and naval search on the West Coast of the US and Canada.

Build massive forts at Prince Rupert as well as the base in the mountains along the rail line, also the base on the north end of Vancoover Island. You want to inhibit an invasion and strategic bombing of the US which could eliminate your industries and resources.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Don't forget to protect the USSR either if he has a lot more units. With that areas resources and industry safe from your attacks, he can support a lot of action for a long time. He can then probably replace a lot more lost squads that you might think possible.


Good advice , i will fortify west coast (specially Portland) and move some US Divisions to Canada as well. I suspect he will try not to trigger emergency reinforcements but i believe a strategic bombing campaign will be coming

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 16
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 5:46:19 AM   
Evoken

 

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With No December 7th suprise i believe he will not attack Pearl Harbor but i will prepare as if he is going to. I can create task forces on day 1 so manilla attack likely cancelled or at least subs will survive , where could be his next target with KB ? I suspect a mersing gambit is coming day 1

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 17
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 1:39:53 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Don't forget to protect the USSR either if he has a lot more units. With that areas resources and industry safe from your attacks, he can support a lot of action for a long time. He can then probably replace a lot more lost squads that you might think possible.

You cannot protect USSR because it is inactive until smashed and holed up in Vlad peninsula. Only China is nearby but has its own hands full.
What the OP can do is to prioritize stiff resistance in the North, so that there is opportunity to sneak supplies to the USSR in 43-44 to help them defend, and then later land units and bombers to stage strategic bombing from close by

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 18
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/19/2020 2:15:04 PM   
Cheesesteak


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Best of luck. You're gonna need it!

_____________________________

"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/20/2020 12:59:28 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Good luck. This should be a major challenge. It helps somewhat that your torps work and you can use restricted squadrons for pilot training throughout the war.

You're going to find that it's difficult to keep your RN flight decks full, as their torp bomber replacements are tiny. You might want to put some USMC squadrons on the Brit carriers. Actually, if you didn't boost your aircraft production at all, you'll be hurting for naval aircraft across the board into 1943. You'll want to choose your early CV battles very carefully.

I'd consider running a number of off-map convoys (such as Eastern US to Cristobal and Cape Town). You'll probably want to run convoys from Balboa to Christchurch or Wellington by way of Tahiti or thereabouts. Anyway, against the computer you have to do that--against a human your mileage may vary. The Indian Ocean will also probably be an unfriendly place for convoys.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/20/2020 4:58:28 PM   
Bif1961


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The Greater the Challenge the greater the victory. I am wondering what Tojo gave Hitler to get most of his major surface units? Maybe a sub load of Geishas?

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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/20/2020 5:49:17 PM   
Cheesesteak


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The Greater the Challenge the greater the victory. I am wondering what Tojo gave Hitler to get most of his major surface units? Maybe a sub load of Geishas?


Captured Indiana Jones?

_____________________________

"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

(in reply to Bif1961)
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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/27/2020 5:26:36 PM   
Evoken

 

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Back with update , still working on the turn.
Submarine patrol patterns are almost done , excited about working torpedos


and Pearl Harbor tripwire line in case KB decides to stop by for a visit





Attachment (1)

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RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 2/28/2020 5:41:18 PM   
Bif1961


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Good luck on your death by a million clicks on the 7 Dec and 8 Dec 41 turn

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 24
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 3/3/2020 10:49:20 AM   
Evoken

 

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Back with an update , got the combat replay and we are off to a good start

Major events;

Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 18
P-40B Warhawk x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-35A: 10 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 93 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 36
G4M1 Betty x 50

Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 4 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-4 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 22
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 46

Morning Air attack on 88th Chinese Corps, at 90,56 , near Hangchow

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5M1 Mabel x 63

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
340 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Dadjangas at 79,95

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
B5N1 Kate x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AVD William B. Preston, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Ground combat at Lingayen (79,75)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 132 troops, 14 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 131

Defending force 13466 troops, 94 guns, 174 vehicles, Assault Value = 141

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
21st PA Infantry Division
86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion

Defending units:
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
Tanaka Det
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
Kanno Det /1
56th Const Engineer Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
14th Army /1
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Engineer Construction Battalion
9th Field AF Construction Battalion
40th JAAF AF Bn
28th JAAF AF Bn /1

Landings at Miri , Batan Island , Lingayen and Aparri. No Kota Bharu landing or mersing gambit yet


SIGINT
SIG INT REPORT FOR Dec 07, 41

Radio transmissions detected at 134,102.
Radio transmissions detected at 68,66.
42nd Air Defense AA Regiment is located at Masan(102,54).
27112 men are based at Hanoi (68,56).
Radio transmissions detected at 135,102.
1/48th Division is loaded on a Japanese xAP moving to Pescadores.
6/98th Division is loaded on a Yusen A class AK moving to Takao.
22nd Division is located at Hangchow(90,55).
6th Ind.Mixed Brigade is located at Chengting(92,40).
Radio transmissions detected at 64,75.
7/98th Division is planning for an attack on Miri.
Radio transmissions detected at Shanghai (92,55).
Radio transmissions detected at Lingayen (79,75).
3/II./124th Infantry Battalion is loaded on a Ansyu-C Cargo class xAK moving to Cam Ranh Bay.
2/146th Infantry Regiment is loaded on a Hakone Maru class xAP moving to Davao.
2/7th Tank Regiment is planning for an attack on Lingayen.
Radio transmissions detected at Pescadores (84,63).
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment is located at Babeldaob(90,97).
Radio transmissions detected at 62,74.
2/56th Infantry Regiment is planning for an attack on Kota Bharu.

Combat report attached to this post , if anyone wants to see operations report i can upload it too

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 25
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 3/3/2020 5:25:18 PM   
Bif1961


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off to a great start with an old S-boat putting a trop in the Akagi. The S-boat Mk-10 torp warheads are smaller then the Mk-14 torps in the fleet boats but their dude rate isn't at the abysmal rate of the Mk-14 either.

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 26
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 3/3/2020 5:38:00 PM   
Evoken

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

off to a great start with an old S-boat putting a trop in the Akagi. The S-boat Mk-10 torp warheads are smaller then the Mk-14 torps in the fleet boats but their dude rate isn't at the abysmal rate of the Mk-14 either.

Yeap , looked like Akagi Detached from that task force , same task force got attacked by another sub and akagi wasnt in the list. We are playing with Reliable US torps so Mk14's wont be going dud as much i am really looking forward to it

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 27
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 3/4/2020 2:36:36 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Is that it, or are you building suspense for the rest of the Dec 7 combat report?

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 28
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 3/4/2020 9:47:58 AM   
Evoken

 

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Those are the major events , combat report attached to it :) KB didnt show up anywhere and some invasions are missing , i expect early DEI takeover or OZ invasion at this point

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 29
RE: Ironman insanity - Evoken(A) vs Guctony(Ironman Japan) - 3/4/2020 10:30:45 AM   
PaxMondo


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IJ gets a ton more of everything in the base Ironman scenario. It will be interesting to see if the IJ can manage the supply issues of supporting all of these forces. He is going to have to be VERY bold as he needs to greatly expand his economy (HI+LI+Resources) to keep his forces in supply. The game designer counted on the AI losing a great deal of these extra assets, a human player won't lose nearly as many so the supply requirement isn't going to be balanced without some huge gains.

On the flip side you will have to remember:
his ships won't run out of ammo, yours will
some of his ships have insane EXP, they will cut you up.
Betty/Nells will hit about 85% of the time.
You will be facing 2:1 in the air or worse the entire war (or until he runs out of supply)

If I were your opponent:
1. seal china.
2. Take CK by july/Aug 42
3. Take Calcutta by 5/42 and seal Burma.
4. go after SOV and take it out by 5/43 OR take Karachi and seal India from CAPE/Aden.
5. distract allies by taking Alaska and threatening Canada/Seattle/Portland.

Calcutta+SOV or Calcutta+Karachi will give him +2M supply that he will desperately need. And he has the forces that he should be able to do it. Not sure he can pull off both. Either way, CONUS has a serious threat in mid-43.

Glad I'm not playing the allies in this one. Good Luck!!!



_____________________________

Pax

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